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Muskie Fishing -> Lures,Tackle, and Equipment -> Leaders and clear water
 
chuckski
Posted 10/7/2022 9:17 AM (#1013546)
Subject: Leaders and clear water




Posts: 1585


Location: Brighton CO.		Years ago I fished with a friend of a friend and he used a long either mono or hard mono leader between his line and regular leader. Tied with albright knot so it would go thru his tip top. Any one use this set up or similar?
ToddM
Posted 10/7/2022 5:30 PM (#1013553 - in reply to #1013546)
Subject: Re: Leaders and clear water





Posts: 20255


Location: oswego, il		I don't but I have a friend that does. He uses flouro. One thing I will say, I use this setup on my spinning stuff for multi-species. If my line breaks usually on a snag, it breaks at the Albright knot. Keep.an eye on it.
chuckski
Posted 10/7/2022 7:09 PM (#1013555 - in reply to #1013546)
Subject: Re: Leaders and clear water




Posts: 1585


Location: Brighton CO.		Ya Todd I've done what your friend has done but never on Muskie but this fellow I fished with went up in Canada and fished some real clear water and caught some heavy Muskies.
pstrombe
Posted 10/7/2022 7:34 PM (#1013556 - in reply to #1013546)
Subject: Re: Leaders and clear water





Posts: 218


After a couple trips to Florida I realized I was wasting too much time and money changing out mono on my spinning and bass casting outfits. Went to 3 feet of 15lb floro on braid using an Alberto knot, Clip the mono end close and it goes through the eye with no issues. I tried long floro leaders on my musky outfits but found it did not like the result. If I used a swivel I got bad figure 8's and if I tied direct had no confidence in the knots. Some may disagree but in most situations I don't think muskies really care about the line or leader. Typically using 12" floro or 8" straight wire for casting and 3' floro for trolling. On the longer trolling leaders I can clip in a 2oz or heavier sinker at the swivel if needed
Ciscokid82
Posted 10/8/2022 9:43 AM (#1013561 - in reply to #1013546)
Subject: Re: Leaders and clear water





Posts: 333


Location: SE Wisc		I use about a 6’ floro leader on my bass/walleye spin outfits, but that’s usually a 10# test material. Not sure about shooting a heavier leader through rod guides or if it’s even necessary, I wouldn’t do it. Fishing tarpon on spin gear my guide used about 6’ of 40# floro but you didn’t cast it through the guides, in fact he yelled at me the first time I did it, instead you cast with that leader out from the rod tip. Took a few casts to get used to but no big deal.
Ciscokid82
Posted 10/8/2022 9:46 AM (#1013562 - in reply to #1013546)
Subject: Re: Leaders and clear water





Posts: 333


Location: SE Wisc		Correction… we used 40# braid to a 6’ 80# leader for tarpon.
joh10891
Posted 10/8/2022 12:11 PM (#1013564 - in reply to #1013546)
Subject: RE: Leaders and clear water




Posts: 112


Not for casting, but for trolling clear water I use a 33ft sufix 150lb wind on leader. Super easy- tie loop to your braid, and do loop to loop (cats paw). No swivels or anything, winds up through guides. Crimped the end with snap. If mono gets nicked by fish or rocks, you can just cut and re-crimp, so very good lifespan.
7.62xJay
Posted 10/8/2022 12:30 PM (#1013565 - in reply to #1013546)
Subject: Re: Leaders and clear water





Posts: 543


Location: NW WI		I've always pondered if it's actually worth a darn in regards to "invisibility" when your flourou diameter gets big enough to be "muskie rated" for both casting and tooth resistant. Way I figure, it's so wide I can see it underwater, so I'd assume if I can see it, than I should think a muskie can see it if it's studying your bait. I also question if it acts like a light prism underwater, which obviously wouldn't be good.
Yes it's become a stapled practice with bass guys, especially when using slower techniques. But there again, much lighter flouro being used.
This last winter my brother and dad spent multiple days on the ice with tipups out for pike testing the difference. 3 black steel strand leaders vs 3 with 4' of Seagur Gold 20lb for leader. After a few days... a bunch of different tests of Flouro arrived in the mail and all tipups got switched over to Flouro.
ToddM
Posted 10/8/2022 1:23 PM (#1013566 - in reply to #1013546)
Subject: Re: Leaders and clear water





Posts: 20255


Location: oswego, il		Something to ponder, there are many in Wisconsin who anchor fish suckers. Muskies have plenty of time to look at the wire quick strike on the sucker. There are some flouro rigs out there but the majority is wire.
7.62xJay
Posted 10/8/2022 1:38 PM (#1013567 - in reply to #1013566)
Subject: Re: Leaders and clear water





Posts: 543


Location: NW WI
ToddM - 10/8/2022 1:23 PM

Something to ponder, there are many in Wisconsin who anchor fish suckers. Muskies have plenty of time to look at the wire quick strike on the sucker. There are some flouro rigs out there but the majority is wire.

Not to mention the hooks sticking outing of the fish, some even with Veg dangling on it.
miket55
Posted 10/9/2022 9:00 PM (#1013597 - in reply to #1013546)
Subject: Re: Leaders and clear water




Posts: 1333


Location: E. Tenn		When you look at all the metal on the stuff we throw, a wire leader isn't likely to be a deal breaker..
dickP
Posted 10/10/2022 7:34 AM (#1013603 - in reply to #1013546)
Subject: Re: Leaders and clear water




Posts: 356


Doug Johnson,tongue in cheek,once stated the wire leader helps them find his bait.I've played with near everything re line and leaders over the decades and can discern no noticeable difference.Clear or mud.
chuckski
Posted 10/10/2022 11:12 AM (#1013614 - in reply to #1013546)
Subject: Re: Leaders and clear water




Posts: 1585


Location: Brighton CO.		I fish both clear and tea colored water and I've bought some Fluorcarbon leaders and also use homemade 174# & 240#
brown wire leaders I've never caught a Muskie on the Fluoro. The Muskies don't seen to be bothered by my wire leaders.
RJ_692
Posted 10/11/2022 9:43 AM (#1013635 - in reply to #1013546)
Subject: Re: Leaders and clear water




Posts: 358


I dont think the big fluorocarbon leaders were ever about visibility. i think it was all vibration related.

bass fisherman are convinced there is a catch rate difference between even braid and fluorocarbon due to the noise/vibration
7.62xJay
Posted 10/12/2022 12:00 AM (#1013658 - in reply to #1013546)
Subject: Re: Leaders and clear water





Posts: 543


Location: NW WI		I just barely remember either reading or listening to something musky related and something about "Flouro coming over from Saltwater use due to its "Invisibility" and abrasion resistance.

But that's a good point. I could see how maybe its naturally more sonic dampening vs single wire or strand. That factor would certainly be of more value when your direct tieing long lengths to a single hook jig setup where you don't have rattles, split ring hooks, swivels,clevises,etc. All clanging and grinding about to cloud whatever sound is being emitted. I spose every time that line goes slack to tight to stretched to slack again it would kinda be like strumming a guitar.
Somebody here has got to have an acoustic guitar and some Flouro laying around, be neat to see what happens.
jdsplasher
Posted 10/12/2022 6:31 AM (#1013660 - in reply to #1013658)
Subject: Re: Leaders and clear water





Posts: 2312


Location: SE, WI.


I guess it’s up to every individual fisherman to do their own experimentation on floro or wire.

 For me, I did 30 and 60 days surveys and documented catches floro vs Wire. My findings were wire simply caught more fish, and had more strikes. This was trolling . I challenged several other buddies that used and believed in floro, to do their own testing. The few I told this to could not believe their findings and converted to wire. At that time, only 7 strand was available. Now, with the 19, and 49 strand available, lures even seem to have more action. The flexibility of wire is now more pronounced. And Camo colors now a plus. And yes, I do believe there is some Sonics infused with using wire.

I still believe mono companies took a big hit in sales when braids entered the market, and then floro was born, reps hyped it up, then jacked up price to compensate for lost sales in mono.

And yes Jay;), jigs can have rattles;)

So, No, I don’t tie leader direct to line with Albright for stealthy approach. I want the sound!  I will say though, I try and stay away from real clear water unless cloudy or night fishing!

JD 

chuckski
Posted 10/12/2022 11:56 AM (#1013679 - in reply to #1013546)
Subject: Re: Leaders and clear water




Posts: 1585


Location: Brighton CO.		I've been a big fan of the 7 strand wire leaders like the one's Bucher makes except they have a snap. From what I hear the 49 strand wire is even better because it does not kink. (or kinks less) I had a post about how to tie and I'm going so I will try it out this winter make some and do some pull test and see how it works. (and use a solid ring)
7.62xJay
Posted 10/12/2022 10:25 PM (#1013697 - in reply to #1013546)
Subject: Re: Leaders and clear water





Posts: 543


Location: NW WI		That's impressive effort for personal data JD.
I was speaking in regards to the bass world and the 100's of jig combos. I'm with you though, in regards to night, the smallies love a black and blue swim jig with rattles. I mean CRIPES! I don't think there's a terminal tackle method that exists without someone making a rattle option. But I could see how in high pressured southern water how audibly extreme stealth may provide the bass with something they haven't heard/ felt as much.
I've direct tied 40lb flouro, I can't imagine doing +100lb EVER.
Ogandrews
Posted 10/14/2022 11:41 AM (#1013742 - in reply to #1013546)
Subject: Re: Leaders and clear water




Posts: 238


Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota		I have been using the dwf leaders from leaders and lures this year. The 49strand with a welded ring is the best leader I’ve ever used. If your fishing crank baits pick up some of the 9” 90lbs and they give the baits so much more action than a floro or straight wire would. Super durable and flexible. I don’t really believe in the whole line visibility thing anymore so I’ve really been phasing away from using floro
chuckski
Posted 10/21/2022 6:07 PM (#1013988 - in reply to #1013742)
Subject: Re: Leaders and clear water




Posts: 1585


Location: Brighton CO.
Ogandrews - 10/14/2022 11:41 AM

I have been using the dwf leaders from leaders and lures this year. The 49strand with a welded ring is the best leader I’ve ever used. If your fishing crank baits pick up some of the 9” 90lbs and they give the baits so much more action than a floro or straight wire would. Super durable and flexible. I don’t really believe in the whole line visibility thing anymore so I’ve really been phasing away from using floro


I just got 5 of these look nice.
Matt DeVos
Posted 10/19/2022 8:53 PM (#1013935 - in reply to #1013546)
Subject: Re: Leaders and clear water




Posts: 581


Trolling-wise I've had good results with floro and 7-strand and 49-strand wire leaders. Based on my results over the years, I have a hard time believing that leader material has any causal relationship in fish/catch ratio.
RyanJoz
Posted 10/21/2022 7:34 PM (#1013991 - in reply to #1013546)
Subject: Re: Leaders and clear water




Posts: 1753


Location: Mt. Zion, IL		The more I use the 90 and 175 49 strand wire (yes the 90 is still listed as 7x7 even though it’s 4 or 5x7), the more impressed with it I am. I caught a brute that had the 90 lb leader and snap tickling the gullet, sideways out the corner of the mouth, and no kinks. I have split a few of the strands getting baits unhung, but that isn’t out of the ordinary. I use 100 lb fluoro, 175 lb fluoro, 174 lb single, 320 lb single, and the two 7x7’s above. 3’ trolling leaders at 175 lb 7x7 for lakes with no weeds, and 5 ft with weed catchers in lakes with weeds. I crimp all fluoro and 7x7 and don’t tie. Never a single failure on a leader. Test a few and build confidence. I did find one of my crimpers wouldn’t secure the 90 lb wire. I pull test every leader making session to ensure no failures. I guess that is the engineer in me. I can hang from the 175 lb leaders at 220 in the garage. If that doesn’t slip…
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