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Muskie Fishing -> General Discussion -> Will a swallow rig ban work in Wisconsin?
 
MRoberts
Posted 2/20/2006 9:10 PM (#178471)
Subject: Will a swallow rig ban work in Wisconsin?





Posts: 714


Location: Rhinelander, WI
Ok, we have known it for two years now that over 80% of gut hooked fish die in the first year or something like that and we have no swallow hook ban. WHY? Is it an inforcement issue? Is there problems with how to word it? I would like to see something?

Thanks to Bukes the following is the wording of the Illinois quick strike rig mandate:

from page 10 of:

http://dnr.state.il.us/fish/Digest/index.htm

which says:

45) When using live bait, all live bait in excess of 8 inches in total
length shall be rigged with a quick set rig. The hook shall be
immediately set upon the strike. A quick set rig is defined as follows:
a live bait rig with up to 2 treble hooks attached anywhere
on the live bait, single hooks prohibited. This rule does not
apply to trotlines, jug lines, etc., if allowed on the lake.


Would that work in WI, personally I don’t like the wording, but maybe it is the way it is for enforcement. There are a number of quick strike rigs out there that you would not be able to use with that wording. Because they use a big single hook as a slide to control the sucker. My rig with a small panfish hook through the snout of the sucker that rips out on hookset would also be banned if I read that rule correctly. I would gladly change my rig to get a rule like this passed.

Any suggestions? This is another piece of the puzzle folks, let DOOOO IT!!!!

Nail A Pig!

Mike
reelman
Posted 2/20/2006 9:31 PM (#178475 - in reply to #178471)
Subject: RE: Will a swallow rig ban work in Wisconsin?




Posts: 1270


Great! Just what we need - another law!
sworrall
Posted 2/20/2006 9:40 PM (#178479 - in reply to #178475)
Subject: RE: Will a swallow rig ban work in Wisconsin?





Posts: 32934


Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin
In this case, iIthink we DO need another law and I am very anti-more-regulations in most cases. Every fish cut loose on a swallow rig is destined to die, what a waste.
ESOX Maniac
Posted 2/21/2006 10:24 AM (#178551 - in reply to #178475)
Subject: RE: Will a swallow rig ban work in Wisconsin?





Posts: 2754


Location: Mauston, Wisconsin
reelman - 2/20/2006 9:31 PM

Great! Just what we need - another law!


Yes! We need another law and we also need to change some others.

With the increased pressure on the muskie fishery in Wisconsin, rapid cohesive changes are needed in management of our resources. Stocking Leach Lake strain muskies in every lake is not a magic bullet! We (the muskie fishing community) need to work hand & hand with the DNR staff and our fisheries biologists to make things happen - that means sitting down and seriously listening to their idea's and also presenting and fighting/lobbying for some of your own.

What can we do about the "muskies are eating all of my walleyes, bluegills, crappies, perch, etc, etc." I hear this all the time here on the WI River. How can we prevent these folks from actively killing every muskie they catch? If you don't think this is happening in our state, you are wearing blinders. There is nothing in our fishing regulations that prevents them from killing every muskie they catch, i.e., the wording of our fishing regulations have to many legal loop holes.

From page number 10 of "Guide to Wisaconsin Hook & Line Fishing Regulations 2005-2006"

"Catch & Release: It will grow on you!"

"Fish you wish to release, and fish not meeting the legal limit, should be handled carefully with wet hands and played as little as possible. When fish are deeply-hooked, cut the line as closely to the hook as possible and let the fish go. ATTENTION MUSKY ANGLERS! It is recommended that you use a quick set rig when fishing for muskies with live bait."

This doesn't say I have to immediately release undersized or an out of season fish alive! The words "should be handled " does not make it mandatory, it's a recommendation only. Nor, is there any mandatory statement that the fish has to be released immediately! When we have ambiguous regulations like this, they are subject to abuse by unscrupulous individuals.

I have seen a ~30" muskie dragged ~ 10' across a sand beach by a walleye bank fisherman and lay flopping on the sand while he yells to his 350lb wife who is sitting ~ 30 yards away to bring him the pliers, she waddles over to their tackle box which is about 10' behind her and then over to him and proceeds to hand him the pliers, she then steps on the muskie to pin it to the sand while he gets the hook out. She then waddles back to the tackle box and brings him back a tape measure. He measures it. Looks at it for about thirty more seconds and picks it up and launches it back into the water as if he's throwing a spear.

oh yes it took him about 10 minutes to land this fish on his light tackle and the whole on shore process was 4-5 minutes.

Do you think this fish survived? I don't think so. The fish floated belly up down the river.

Did they do anything illegal? I don't think so.

Was he unscrupulous, deliberately taking advantage of the situation? I don't think so.

Was he stupid, and uncaring about what he was doing with one of our natural resources? Yes, I think so. But in his defense- there's not a Wisconsin fishing regulation/law prohibiting his particular demonstration of stupidity. He clearly knew the fish was a muskie and the legal size limit. If the fish had been 34", I'm sure it would have wound up in the same condition, except probably in the frying pan.

At last year's spring hearing in Mauston WI, I listened to Scott Ironside (WI DNR Biologist ) make a recommendation and plea for support of a closing of the walleye fishing on the WI River during the spring spawn period.

Scott's reasoning for this was that select group of walleye anglers using modern electronics have very effectively patterned the big females during the spawn period and are selectively harvesting limits of these big fish day after day, after day. He see's this every spring!

If the fish were only protected during the few weeks of the spawn, these big females would have a chance to complete the spawn. But they would also disperse throughout the river after spawning making them harder to specifically target. Another effect of this closing would be also to make them available to the average fisherman and our children throuhout the rest of the season.

His recommendation was soundly defeated by the folks in that hearing room. These are the same local moron's whom complain to me when they see me muskie fishing that the muskies are eating all the big walleye's, bulegills, crappies, etc. - yet these same folks catch up to 75-100 walleyes under 15" everytime they go out and they keep any fish they catch over 15". They are complaining they can't catch a legal limit. Yet they fish every day, day after day, I see them everytime I go over to the WI River, i.e., they are either retired or unemployed.

There are 1000's of under 15" walleyes in some spot's, why would any muskie need to eat +20" walleyes. The WI River is a fish factory. There are day's when the water is litterally alive with baitfish, walleye's, small mouth bass, white bass, suckers, carp. There is no way the muskies need to even consider a walleye for food, some days I think I'm even insane for trying to get them to hit an artifical lure.

Back to the original question: Yes it's one small step in a long path to fix the short comings in our fishing regulations.

"When fishing for either northern pike or muskellunge using live bait, all live bait shall be rigged with a quick set rig. The hook shall be immediately set upon the strike. A quick set rig is defined as follows:
a live bait rig with up to 2 treble hooks attached anywhere on the live bait, single hooks prohibited."

Some where in our regulations we need to say: " Undersized or illegal fish shall be immediately unhooked and released back into the water alive."

Why include northern pike? Because it's to easy on the WI River to say" No Officer, I'm only fishing for northern pike!"

Our DNR staff & the fisheries biologist's need better tools to enable them to effectively manage this resource. Law's are tools, necessary tools to prevent abuse and over exploitation of the resource. However, tools are only part of the equation, education is the other part. Some local muskie club's do a very good job, i.e., putting up posters, etc at boat launches. Typical shoreline fisherman do not use boat launches. Maybe we need posters in those area's too. We also need support from the resorts and bait shop owners.

Many will stand up and wave the heritage flag! We've alway's fished for muskies this way, it's my rightful heritage. That doesn't make it right for the fishery. They used to shoot muskies too!

Both Ontario, Canada, and Minnesota have single fishing pole law's. Ontario has Lac Seul with no keep and numerous lakes/river sections with +50" length limits.

Why do you need to fish muskies with three poles?

Why can't we have a 50" size limit on the entire WI River?

Why not mandate quick strike rig's and also mandate their method of use for both northern pike and muskies?

Have fun!
Al
muskyboy
Posted 2/20/2006 9:48 PM (#178482 - in reply to #178471)
Subject: RE: Will a swallow rig ban work in Wisconsin?


This change in IL was important and it is a very important change to see enacted in WI. It is one issue that something can be done about it, working with the WDNR and Conversation Congress!
webby
Posted 2/21/2006 8:35 AM (#178526 - in reply to #178471)
Subject: RE: Will a swallow rig ban work in Wisconsin?


how about you are allowed just one line like Minnesota so there is very limited sucker fishing
C.Painter
Posted 2/21/2006 9:17 AM (#178535 - in reply to #178471)
Subject: RE: Will a swallow rig ban work in Wisconsin?


I like the idea. I too use a very small single hook Like Mike. I would like the wording slightly different as well, but I like the spirit of it.

One rod?! Lets not throw the baby out with the bath water. Just because I fish with two sucker rods doesn't mean fish are going to die. These are separate issues.


Nice work pushing this forward Mike.....


Cory
Fin-Addict
Posted 2/21/2006 9:35 AM (#178542 - in reply to #178471)
Subject: RE: Will a swallow rig ban work in Wisconsin?




Posts: 101


Location: Liberty, IN (OKI Tri-State)
After intently listening to a closing presentation on this "once controversial" subject at the Dr. Crossman Musky Symposium in Indy this past October and seeing the resulting photo support and study conclussions .... there is absolutely NO DOUBT that this practice needs to be eliminated post haste!

I believe you can still access this "must see/hear presentation" from the home page of this community's best all-round news gathering, educational, informative website .... thanks to the folks here at MuskieFIRST. If so and you have not had access to this eye-opening information; please do so soon ... it is devestating!

Bob Osborne
Pete Stoltman
Posted 2/21/2006 10:55 AM (#178562 - in reply to #178471)
Subject: RE: Will a swallow rig ban work in Wisconsin?




Posts: 663


I'd like to see a little better definition of the quick strike rig too. Other than that, I'm all for it.
reelman
Posted 2/21/2006 11:07 AM (#178567 - in reply to #178471)
Subject: RE: Will a swallow rig ban work in Wisconsin?




Posts: 1270


So the guy who is now using a single hook will be using trble hooks and letting the fish swallow the sucker. Either way the fish is still in a serious world of hurt!

You want the law to state that the hook must be set immediatly upon the stirke? Don't we already have enough grey area when it comes to sucker fishing? Now we have the grey area about "position fishing" and you want to make a HUGE grey area as to when you must set the hook. As you propose the law be written you would need to keep the rod in your hand and set the hook at the first hint of a strike, no waiting for the fish to turn, just WHAM! set the hook as soon as the musky touches the sucker!

Your propasal has another flaw. It says when fishing for musky or northerns. What about the guy who says he is fishing for walleyes with a 10" sucker? To be consistant it would have to state a size limit on the bait like IL's law has.

What about circle hooks?
ESOX Maniac
Posted 2/21/2006 4:42 PM (#178635 - in reply to #178567)
Subject: RE: Will a swallow rig ban work in Wisconsin?





Posts: 2754


Location: Mauston, Wisconsin
Reelman- Actually I'm in favor of a total ban on live bait for muskies! However, just like the CC hearings- everything is compromise. How does my quick strike proposal work for one of the Chip set pole fisherman? It doesn't, because they couldn't immediately set the hook.

What exactly do you propose, business as usual, or are you just silently waving the heritage flag?

Why allow the guy who prefers 4" bait to fish differently than the guy who uses 8" or 16"bait. The Illinois law has a loophole that could be exploited. If you're using muskie equipment & 10" suckers & steel leaders, it's highly unlikely that you are targeting walleyes. There has to be bit of common sense in how the rule is worded. My propasal was just that, a proposal/food for thought.

Just like the Ten Commandments - what if they all were written with the word "should" instead of "shall"- kinda gives them a new interpretation. My entire point is what we have now is no good. There have been other proposal's put forward.

As for setting the hook immediately, that's exactly what needs to be done. Maybe we need a definition for those whom have no concept of the word "immediate", i.e., within 10 seconds of the strike. Why exactly do you need the fish to turn? How do you determine that it has turned? From my point of view: If the bobber goes under and 30 seconds later you haven't tried to set the hook you are in violation.

Lambeau- if they get harvested at 34" or 50", they never get to 54". IMHO. Getting accurate harvest numbers for WI is an impossible venture. Our DNR staffing for wardens, etc. has already been negatively affected by the recent state budgets.

What's preventing us from forming a statewide coalition of muskie fisherman dedicated to helping our fisheries biologist's and the WIDNR to get too the level we all seem to desire?

Have fun!
Al

Rick Hess
Posted 2/21/2006 12:00 PM (#178583 - in reply to #178471)
Subject: RE: Will a swallow rig ban work in Wisconsin?





Posts: 18


I'll probably have the musky mafia after me for this post but its my belief . Don't send out your hit men after me for this .

I use circle hooks straight shank. (Be Nice) Offset circle hooks are the cause of many problems . Its educating people on how to use a circle hook and the type.

I have yet to gut a hook a fish . Have I caused damage to the fish? Only a biologist would know?

Never gut hooked a fish yet. 100% of my fish have been caught in the corner of the mouth. I also used them in salt water fishing with same results.

If you are going by statistics consider mine.

Will a quick strike rig kill a fish ? I'm sure its happened. I'm sure its happened with a circle hook.

Be careful in what you ask for sometimes it can work in the wrong direction you intend it. (HATE TO SUCKER FISHING GET BANNED)

I am all about preserving the fishery but we have bigger issues. Spearing! Pollution!

Don't get me wrong I am not for single hook kill rigs! I am for educating people on proper use of the gear and the products that are made to catch and unharm these fish.

If someone has evidence that I am damaging this resource I would be glad to give up my circle hooks.

Please don't come back and tell me that you heard about a guy or you ''think'' they hurt the fish. I believe in Scientific evidence.

I don't taught myself to be an expert by any means. Were all learning as we go about this species.






John Myhre
Posted 2/21/2006 12:18 PM (#178584 - in reply to #178471)
Subject: RE: Will a swallow rig ban work in Wisconsin?


Hey guys, there already has been a resolution passed a few years ago that would make sigle hook rigs illegal but it is sitting in commitee somewhere and the DNR is sitting on it. We also came up with a quickstrike proposal a couple years back and it was rejected as I guess the wardens say these type laws are too hard to enforce?

Lately One of the things that I have seen come up from the DNR is that live bait fishing is one of the major factors limiting the production of 50 inch plus muskies and now they want to do something about it??

Well here are a few observations on that too. While I too agree that mortality from live bait is somewhat of a factor, with the majority of anglers now using QS rigs, for it to be anywhere near the largest factor it would have to be that only the say 45 inch and up fish are the ones that will hit a sucker and the fish smaller than that won't touch them! However we all know better than that.

Strange analogy, probably but let me explain.

When you look at several of the smaller lakes and the size fish they are producing you will see that the average size has indeed gotten larger and several of these same lakes are now producing probably more fish between 40 to 45 inches than ever before. Many of these same lakes get hit really hard by the live bait anglers in the fall as well and still the size has went up and we are catching more over 40 than before. This may not be the case on all lakes but it is on many I fish.

So Given that as fish get larger there will always be less of them in the larger sizes present, can anyone explain why under often intense live bait pressure these lakes still continue to produce larger fish.

If live bait in general is killing any significant number of larger fish would it to be also be killing smaller fish at a much higher rate as there are more of them? And if so would it not be almost impossible to see a very significant increase in those 40 to 45 inchers?

While these lakes are producing more larger fish instead of less which is what we should be seeing if the live bait thing was as big of factor as some would try to have us believe. However, I will point out that the fish are getting larger only to a point. 45 to 47 inches seems to be the max they attain which leads me to believe that possibly genitics is more when it comes to growing large fish than live bait is.

So again, with most anglers now using quick strike rigs and the fact that many lakes have gotten better up to that 45 to 47 inch range, is live bait really that much of a factor? I would appear not on many lakes!
JRS
Posted 2/21/2006 2:05 PM (#178603 - in reply to #178471)
Subject: RE: Will a swallow rig ban work in Wisconsin?


On some of our live bait sets, be it tip-ups for big pike or slip bobbers for trophy walleyes, we use single hook rigs on big minnows. Our single hook rigs consist of a single treble through the minnow's back. We've found that this is actually less damaging to a fish since there is no 'head' hook on the rig, and an agressive fish won't get that front hook imbedded in it's gullet if he partially swallows the minnow. Now, I'm not talking muskies here, but would like to see the law worded to allow this. A big J hook through a sucker's mouth is a kill rig. A small treble in the back of an 8-10" sucker minnow under a slip bobber isn't. We always set immediatly, the fish will have the hook in his mouth if he's big.

I can see some huge grey areas here, even worse than position fishing. It would be nice to see something done. Many retailers have stopped carrying kill rigs, so at least that is a good start. I know my examples above are regarding walleye and pike fishing, but the walleye and pike guys are the ones who will oppose this type of law.

J.Sloan
John Myhre
Posted 2/21/2006 2:35 PM (#178609 - in reply to #178471)
Subject: RE: Will a swallow rig ban work in Wisconsin?


What we tried to propose was the use of rigs with no front or head hook in the bait. Any of the QS rigs that use a rubber band to attach the nose of the sucker are in effect safer rigs even when someone sits on the biat too long or a fish takes it head on. That type of rig is just harder for them to get down to where they are gullet hooked without a hook catching somewhere on the outside of the mouth. Still nothing is fool proof but these rigs a a heck of a lot better than any rig with a hook in the nose of the bait.
However, when we tried to propose it we were told it would be too hard to enforce???
DJS
Posted 2/21/2006 3:52 PM (#178622 - in reply to #178471)
Subject: RE: Will a swallow rig ban work in Wisconsin?


How hard these regs are to enforce is totally irrelevant. Bare with me, they need to be written and put in place and people will start to follow them. If a guy wants to let a muskie swallow his sucker putting it on with a couple trebles isn't going to stop him. Write the law and hope for change. How enforceable something is has never applied to any other arena of daily life why should fishing be any diffrent.
reelman
Posted 2/21/2006 4:35 PM (#178632 - in reply to #178471)
Subject: RE: Will a swallow rig ban work in Wisconsin?




Posts: 1270


IF we are so worried about killing the fish then would the next logical step be to make any hooks illegal? I am sure that a 5/0 trble stuck in a muskys jaw isn't doing the fish any good.
DJS
Posted 2/21/2006 4:37 PM (#178633 - in reply to #178471)
Subject: RE: Will a swallow rig ban work in Wisconsin?


Easy reelman! I hope you don't logout and go join PETA and start letting lab rats loose.
reelman
Posted 2/21/2006 6:57 PM (#178664 - in reply to #178471)
Subject: RE: Will a swallow rig ban work in Wisconsin?




Posts: 1270


Esox, I am for letting things be as they are. Why do we need a new law for every little situation tha comes up? What percentage of sucker caught fish are now caught on single hooks? My guess is that it is rather small and most of the people who are doing it will probably keep and eat the muskys they catch because most serious musky guys will be using a QS rig. I know that killing a musky is not spoken about on these sites but it is there right to do so and I do not believe that we should be telling them that they can not do something that is perfectly legal.

As for the set pole guys as long as they are attending there lines i.e they can see them who cares? It's the same as tip ups except in open water. Are you also proposing that we outlaw tip-ups for northerns since it is not practicle to set the hook immidiatly when you are 100yds away from your tip up.

In your last question you ask what is preventing us from coming together and forming a group to help us get the musky fishing to a level that all of seem to desire. The simple answer to that is that the "we" that you speak about is actually a very small group of anglers who has deires that are often 180 degrees from what most anglers want. Then you add in the fact that even the group of dedicated musky anglers you talk about is split in so many sub-groups so that there would never be a concensus on anything.
MRoberts
Posted 2/21/2006 9:30 PM (#178714 - in reply to #178471)
Subject: RE: Will a swallow rig ban work in Wisconsin?





Posts: 714


Location: Rhinelander, WI
From the article “A Killer Tatic” by DNR researcher Terry Margenau in the October/November 2004 Issue of Musky Hunter

“What is acceptable hooking mortality? This answer will vary with different fisheries, but according to a review of the hooking mortality for recreational fisheries (Mouneke and Childress 1994) mortality above 20 percent is generally considered high and deserving of management action. In this study, mortality was 22 percent after 45 days, and cumulatively was 83 percent to one year.”

I think it is worth addressing, if no-one was using single hook swallow rigs there would be no reason for South Bend and other manufactures to make them and sell them in stores like Fleet Farm and Wall-Mart in the heart of musky country.

It’s just like catch and release, yes many are doing it, but Wisconsin sees SO much fishing pressure that the small PERCENTAGE that aren’t make up a fairly large number of people.

The issue is live bait single hook swallow rigs, not live bait in general. One of my favorite lakes has been decimated by swallow rigs the last 3 to 4 years. We discovered this lake a few years ahead of the crowds, fished it for two falls almost by our selves, caught and saw numerous LARGE 50+/- fish in this lake. Then we started seeing more and more fall fishermen out there including 2 or 3 boats that did nothing but sucker fish in the fall. One guy had 3 fish over 45 inches all caught on a swallow rig all released and photographed by the same witness on shore who knows how many other fish that guy and others caught and released in that way. It is now very rare to see a fish over 45 on this little lake.

These people used big suckers and yes a small fish can eat a big sucker, but odds of getting a small fish go down as the size of the sucker goes up. They are after HAWGS and they are killing them whether they know it or not, most don’t know it and think they just cut the leader the fish will be fine, as that is what most everyone thought up until a few years ago. Remember these people don’t read musky mags and don’t spend time on the Internet. They mostly just fish the same way they have always fished. I have no problem with that, but how do you educate them. A new rule in the little book that gets handed to every fisherman when they get their license is the best way in my opinion.

I agree with DJS, how hard the rule is to enforce is irrelevant, as most law-abiding people will try to follow the rule to the best of their interpretation. Yes it is forced education, but sometimes it is needed. You can’t do anything about the guy who is going to let the fish swallow a quick strike rig, he is the same guy who keeps undersized fish, over bags and maybe spears or seines in the spring. They don’t care about the rules no mater what they are. Does that mean we should not have a new rule that will do some good, because someone will violate it anyway.

I don’t see enforcement of this rule any different than the enforcement of the no snagging rules.

I agree single hook quick strike rigs and circle hooks pose a problem, and people who like using them have legitimate concerns. . Not sure how to handle that right now, other than to ask is it an acceptable loss to eliminate the swallow rigs?

There is also legitimate concern for walleye and pike fishermen and most importantly ice fishermen. They wont want this rule to affect them.

To those who use large bait for pike, and walleye, if the law was like the Ill. law and only effected live bait bigger than 8” how much of a problem would it really cause?

Cory if you read this before the Wisconsin Muskellunge Management Team Meeting could you try and find out where this issue is with them, is there anything in the works. I would email Tim but with the meeting coming up I am sure he is very busy.

I guess a resolution to ban swallow rigs passed in Sawyer County couple of years ago but it apparently got lost in CC committees. Maybe if we can come up with something before this years spring hearing and spread it around to many counties it will be something they can’t ignore. Does anyone have this resolution if so could you forward it to me at [email protected]

Thanks for listening to me ramble.

Nail A Pig!

Mike
RiverMan
Posted 2/22/2006 12:27 AM (#178742 - in reply to #178471)
Subject: RE: Will a swallow rig ban work in Wisconsin?




Posts: 1504


Location: Oregon
As an outsider from the northwest I find it amazing some are still using live bait...particularly in trophy fisheries. Live bait has been outlawed in all of the northwest states for 20 years or longer.

jed v.
MRoberts
Posted 2/23/2006 1:20 PM (#179146 - in reply to #178471)
Subject: RE: Will a swallow rig ban work in Wisconsin?





Posts: 714


Location: Rhinelander, WI
No more comments on this topic?

Nail A Pig!

Mike
Troyz.
Posted 2/23/2006 2:10 PM (#179160 - in reply to #178471)
Subject: RE: Will a swallow rig ban work in Wisconsin?




Posts: 734


Location: Watertown, MN
Mike

Yes, it is a great proposal, even though people have had success with circle hooks. But lets put conservation first and this would be a great step in protection fish from delayed mortality.

Rick on circle hooks, we just had Larry Dahlberg speak at our chapter and he has not found great success with the vast variety of circle hooks that he had tried. His explanation was that a musky's mouth is not the same shape(cylinder) as saltwater or even most fresh water fish. He believes this why he is was still hooking fish deep, also he believe the teeth on the musky will prevent the circle hook from properly be guided to the corner of the fishes mouth as designed. He still used them, but he attaches the hook the lenght of the live bait forward on his leader to keep the hook in front of the mouth while the sucker in the throat. He also flies a kite with his suckers.

Good luck

Troyz
Rick Hess
Posted 2/23/2006 3:35 PM (#179175 - in reply to #178471)
Subject: RE: Will a swallow rig ban work in Wisconsin?





Posts: 18


Troy, I appreciate your comments.

This is a very indepth subject and can lead to alot of unknowns. I am not familiar with the gentleman you speak of. I am just familiar with my success rate. I do not know how he uses a circle hook. Theres more to a circle hook then just placement of the hook.

I have been fishing Musky for a long time and still don't fully understand this fish yet. Probably never will. I love fishing with a circle hook . Any time you have hooks involved there is a chance for mortality. If the law gets passed either way I will always abide by the law. To date I have ''never'' killed a musky with live bait or any other means.( God I hope I didn't jinks myself)

A musky can also swallow a jig as faster or if not faster than a sucker. I understand Mr Worral is a outstanding Jig fisherman but put it in the hand of a novice and he will probably be delayed in setting the hook. Do we now put a law in place for jigs? I doubt it.

What will stop the novice from letting the sucker be swallowed with a quick strike rig? (DNR with stop watches . I doubt that too)

By law these people have a right to kill a musky every day of the season. Does this suck ? You bet it does. Who made this law?

Who's letting the spearing go on?

Why do we keep dumping sewage into the Milwaukee River ?

Alot of issues out there guys.

I wish you all luck in your proposal. If the law changes or I kill one musky with a circle hook I'll change my ways.

I understand your side. I hope you can understand mine

Big Perc
Posted 2/23/2006 11:09 PM (#179293 - in reply to #178471)
Subject: RE: Will a swallow rig ban work in Wisconsin?




Posts: 1188


Location: Iowa
We still see single hook sucker rigs being sold in Iowa along with fish clubs in the muskie sections...everytime I am in a store that sells them I try and hide them so now one will buy them and cause more harm to our muskie fishery that isn't already being done by the stupid bass and walleye fisherman of the great state of Iowa...

Big Perc
Troyz.
Posted 2/24/2006 7:21 AM (#179326 - in reply to #178471)
Subject: RE: Will a swallow rig ban work in Wisconsin?




Posts: 734


Location: Watertown, MN
Rick

Never heard of Larry Dahlberg, he was In-Fisherman 10+ years ago, hunting for big pike, and musky. He now has his own show Hunt for Big Fish. He is a very accomplished Saltwater and Freshwater angler, with years of experience with the variety of circle hooks in the saltwater application. When he did his seminar he talked about how he was rigging and has played with many different methods(hooks, and hook locations). He loves his live bait fishing and now has gone to fishing without hooks at times, and simply ties his leader with floss through the suckers nostril, to avoid the negative impact of the circle hooks on the fish.
Just passing on what he has presented, yes rig there are bigger issue out there that need to be controlled, but this is a issue we can address and help the fishery. Educating Live bait fisherman would be a good issue to approach. Spearing, don't think we will have much luck there.

Good luck

Troyz
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