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| Message Subject: Lithium-ION batteries | |||
RJ_692 |
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Posts: 357 | For those that have switched over and pro / cons? I'm doing a refurb on the old 692 and would like to be able to drop some battery weight so that i can add a bigger kicker. This thing is a bit rear weight sensitive and im trolling more now and walleye fishing more now. I dont really need a battery performance upgrade as AGM's get me most of what i need there even with 27's, primarily looking ar weight reduction. Any particular brands that have been good / bad for people? | ||
| Doonan |
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Posts: 153 Location: Storm Lake, IA | I have 2 seasons on Amped batteries. I did the 3 80 amp batteries and love them. Charge quick, light weight, last all day, power all day. I wouldn't go back. | ||
| RJ_692 |
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Posts: 357 | Doonan - 1/12/2023 10:06 AM I have 2 seasons on Amped batteries. I did the 3 80 amp batteries and love them. Charge quick, light weight, last all day, power all day. I wouldn't go back. what do you use as a cranking battery? do you have the 12V split like amped recommends (electronics on a dedicated battery)? For trolling motor you then run the other two 80AH for 24V? | ||
| gimruis |
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Posts: 105 | IMO the selling point of a lithium battery at this point is the weight reduction. Compared to a standard lead acid battery or an AGM, the cost vs life span isn't justified yet. If I'm going to pay 5 times the cost to get a lithium battery, I would expect 5 times the performance/life span. That means you should be getting about 15 years out of a lithium battery. Not the case. They will eventually drop in price but they aren't there yet. If you are doing it solely based on weight reduction, then it may be worth it. | ||
| miket55 |
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Posts: 1208 Location: E. Tenn | Currently on my fifth year running AGMs. I'm seriously considering switching over to Dakota lithium batteries... With an 11 year warranty, I'm guessing I won't have to buy another set. | ||
| CincySkeez |
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Posts: 596 Location: Duluth | RJ_692 - 1/12/2023 6:57 AM For those that have switched over and pro / cons? I'm doing a refurb on the old 692 and would like to be able to drop some battery weight so that i can add a bigger kicker. This thing is a bit rear weight sensitive and im trolling more now and walleye fishing more now. I dont really need a battery performance upgrade as AGM's get me most of what i need there even with 27's, primarily looking ar weight reduction. Any particular brands that have been good / bad for people? Have had good luck working with these guys https://www.renogy.com and with Victron. I too am thinking about upgrading to a lithium bank for my 36v Kota | ||
| nar160 |
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Posts: 408 Location: MN | I switched this year. I have a 24V/60lb Terrova , 4x 9" screens, and livescope. My old configuration was all lead acid - group 24 starting, 2x fleet farm 100 Ah deep cycles. With just the TM on the deep cycles, I could do about 15 hours in low wind, down to 4-6 hours in windy (15+) conditions. Maybe slightly more brand new, and less as the batteries aged. Definitely a limiting factor if I want to pull a shift in heavy winds, grind out a long day, or take a multi day trip somewhere without access to power. With all of the electronics on the starting battery, I could go 14 hours or so without running the outboard before the starting battery would get low. This was also a limiting factor for long days without much running or multi day trips without recharging. The boat is a 680T, which is kind of stern heavy anyway and does not have built-in storage for TM batts up front. Weight was a concern. I replaced the deep cycles with a pair of 150 Ah lithiums from Eco-Worthy. This has ~3x the usable capacity of the old system; their rated Ah are 1.5x, and all capacity can be used with the lithium while lead acid can only use ~50% of its rated capacity. The pair together weighs 35 lbs less than the old setup. I also wired the GLS-10 (livescope) to the 24 V system to take some load off the starting battery. Before pulling the trigger I looked around a lot for options. There are a ton of different lithium batteries out there - check Amazon, for example. Like many products, there is a kind of idiot tax on the high profile or popular brand names - you pay 2x for maybe slightly better performance but mostly for the perception of quality or security. Of the cost-competitive options I looked at, I selected Eco Worthy because it offered a 150 Ah battery in group 31 case and had a longer history with positive feedback - been around for years in solar, lots of cases of making it right when there were problems. The total amount of out pocket for the pair was $1030. To replace my fleet farms would have been $235. AGMs would be around $500. So far the new configuration has worked as intended. I have yet to run them close to dead. Time will tell on longevity/durability. It's probably worth it for me even if I only get 5 years out of them (warranty period), as I don't really have another option for the usable capacity without greatly increasing the weight and size. If they last 10 years, that's getting similar in cost to the old lead acid solution (but with 3x capacity). There are quite a few possible configurations out there - 12V, 24V, 36V in different capacities and cases. My route was much more capacity for slightly less weight. On the other end, if you have 36V motor and low capacity needs, you might replace 3x group 31 SLA/AGMs with a single group 31 36V 40Ah lithium that weights only 31 lbs and shed 130 lbs. | ||
| Reef Hawg |
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Posts: 3518 Location: north central wisconsin | I run a considerably underpowered rig(Ranger 690T) with limited battery storage space. To date, I'd run twin AGM's for the Terrova and a single AGM for starting. For the most part trolling batteries were fine for single day ops. Starting battery was also sufficient for single day op's, with my old Lowrance units(LCX 111 and HDS 7, stereo). I upgraded my locators this season, and the need for more battery became evident. Had I stuck with AGM's, I'd have needed a stand alone battery just for my electronics, which is a no option in my rig. Knowing this prior to purchase, and after 3 years of extensive research into reviews, and discussions with company reps/owners/engineers, I made the switch to LiPo4 in 2022. Based on advertising, I looked at certain brands, but after said research, realized both customer service and build quality were what I was happy with in the brands I chose. Initially i was going to replace starting battery only. However, knowing I'd need a charger built for Lithium Phosphate, I'd need a stand alone charger for that battery, or upgrade my 3 bank. The more research I did, I realized that with a 24 volt trolling motor, the best lithium batteries for run time, lifespan, and efficiency, are 24 Volt in parralel. Purchasing a 3 bank 12 volt was now not neccessary. I ended up going with twin Amped Outdoors(Wisconsin based company/importer) 50AH 24 Volt Cells, which came with a 10 amp charger. I then researched considerably(the bass guys down south really helped me alot), and went with an Ionic brand 125 AH starting battery, which has Bluetooth to view health and condition of the battery during use. I purchased a single bank NOCO charger for this one. After one season of use, I have not had the starting battery down below 69% after second day of a weekend, running aerator, both units and radio. Ultimately I was able to cut nearly 160 lbs of battery and charger. All 3 batteries have 11 year warranty. You asked about potential downfalls. the main downfall of Lithium Phosphate batteries is cost up front. Nobody really knows truly how long these 2nd/3rd gen batteries will last, but we all hope to get near like for like that of AGM. The next issue is they cannot be charged below freezing conditions. There are work arounds for this in terms of heating pads, or plugging in directly after use when warm, but this can be an issue for those fishing winter or very early spring. I have a different boat for spring walleye fishing so it is a non issue. Also, unlike AGM batteries, Lithium need to be brought indoors in off season, and best kept at 75(ish)% charge for storage. When choosing, remember that if running 24 or 36 volt volt system, Amp Hours will only be as much as the lowest single cell ie if you purchase 12 volt cells to run in series. For example: If you have a 24 volt trolling motor and purchase 2 80 AH 12 volt cells, and 2 50 AH 24 Volt cells, the 80 AH set will have 80 Amp Hours, while the 50 AH set will be 100 Amp Hours, and run much more efficiently. It's just something to bear in mind when shopping, as not all company reps will know or thusly be able to tell you. With all of that said, I have a lightly used 3 bank Dual Pro 15 amp Pro Charger for sale or trade. Edited by Reef Hawg 1/14/2023 8:17 PM | ||
| BNelson |
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Location: Contrarian Island | I also just bought lithiums for my 620VS for TM and a dedicated battery for electronics. I put in a 31 dual purpose AGM just for starting and 3 100 AH Ionic lithiums and then another dedicated 100AH Ionic for electronics and a new 5 bank charger that can charge any type. I did research as well and while there are definitely cheaper lithiums out there on ebay/Amazon the reviews and issues some had with warranty claims were enough to scare me away. I added a battery and still shaved about 100 lbs out of the boat. I can see the charge % right on my phone for each battery via blue tooth and I look fw to putting them to the test this season. Edited by BNelson 1/15/2023 5:25 PM | ||
| NickD |
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Posts: 296 | I’m planning on upgrading my new to me 620 to a Lithium set up. Option 1 is 3 12v 60AH with a Yandina TrollBridge combiner. Charges on the fly so plenty AH and in a bind I could use the house battery if one died. Option 2 is a pair of 40 or 50AH 36v batteries in parallel. 80 or 100AH of capacity is substantial and you have a full backup system on a trip. I’m leaning towards a pair of 36V 40AH from Monster Lithium. 66lbs for a redundant 36v system with great capacity sounds awesome to me. Though I’m not crazy about the having to rely on a single 36v charger on a trip. So we’ll see on that. Can’t wait to get rid of the lead acid batteries. | ||
| Reef Hawg |
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Posts: 3518 Location: north central wisconsin | NickD - 1/16/2023 3:12 PM I’m planning on upgrading my new to me 620 to a Lithium set up. Option 1 is 3 12v 60AH with a Yandina TrollBridge combiner. Charges on the fly so plenty AH and in a bind I could use the house battery if one died. Option 2 is a pair of 40 or 50AH 36v batteries in parallel. 80 or 100AH of capacity is substantial and you have a full backup system on a trip. I’m leaning towards a pair of 36V 40AH from Monster Lithium. 66lbs for a redundant 36v system with great capacity sounds awesome to me. Though I’m not crazy about the having to rely on a single 36v charger on a trip. So we’ll see on that. Can’t wait to get rid of the lead acid batteries. Option 2 is best by far. More efficient. If concerned re size, 2 50AH may be worth looking at. The chargter as you mention, is the wild card. I'm in the same boat, and purchased a spare 24v charger for mine. Do the monsters come with bluetooth? Love that about the Ionic. | ||
| NickD |
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Posts: 296 | Monster offers with and without Bluetooth. You get some extra weight savings with the 40AH as well and an 80ah system is plenty for me. I emailed the company and with their 14A charger it will charge them from empty in 5.5 hours. Which off a generator on a remote trip is pretty awesome. A buddy put 3 100AH Ionics in last year. The Bluetooth stats can be a bit shocking. | ||
| RJ_692 |
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Posts: 357 | thanks so far replies. very much appreciated. So it kind of looks like a 4 battery system would work well for me. 1 cranking battery. 1 Dedicated electronics battery, and 2 24V in parallel for trolling motor. | ||
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