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Location: The desert | They were jumping in the boat pretty much everywhere else in MN... |
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Posts: 49
| Doesn’t seem like “one of those times” when it happens so consistently. Tough fishing is one thing... vermilion is on a whole different level. I hear the pressure argument quite a bit, but I don’t think that has much to do with it. I don’t find the pressure to be any different than other big name musky lakes. Go to leech lake and try and tell me there’s not spots out there that don’t get absolutely pounded to death... yet the spots still produce. Also, if pressure was a big factor, people would still be catching fish on secondary spots, and that’s just not happening.
Edited by TSMUSKY89 10/19/2018 10:46 PM
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Location: Hayward, Wisconsin | The Outing at Vermilion Dam Lodge was the 17th Annual Larry Ramsell Muskie Outing. We had 95 anglers and 10 guides (everyone got some time with a guide) and thru Saturday (some fished Thursday) there were 14 muskies caught with 11 over 45 and 2 over 50, the largest at 51 1/2. As is usual in tournaments or large outings like this there is always a couple of guys that have the "Golden Horseshoe" as two of our group got doubles....muskies just aren't fair, LOL.
It was absolutely horrible weather; no spring and now no fall, straight to winter. The 4 to 5 inches of snow on Thursday didn't help things a bit...muskies just don't like "snow water". In this respect, Vermilion is just like Eagle Lake!
Also, some sections of the lake were still turning over or had just finished and the water was very dirty. Saturday afternoon. one of the guides found some spawning cisco's and scored nearby. Most fish were caught casting.
The muskies on Vermilion still exist and can be caught. They are not the dummies they used to be and Mother Nature sure didn't help things. Several of the muskies caught were "in the mud".
Edited by Larry Ramsell 10/20/2018 9:02 AM
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Kirby Budrow - 10/19/2018 2:32 PM
Don’t talk about how bad vermilion is! You’ll hurt it’s feelings!
We've already covered the Vermilion muskie population in other threads, and the fact it is not a surprise to anyone with the huge pressure and obvious angling mortality over the years, poor NR(according to some that was absolutely impossible, I remember that argument well) and management not shooting at a numbers lake.
Don't want to fish muskies there? Don't. I'm betting the bite chasers won't be missed much. Want a shot at a true monster? They are there.
You may notice (or not) that the OFM outing there isn't just about Muskies and that's simple why...more folks want to fish muskies when it suits them with a shot at a trophy, fill a livewell with nice walleyes, fish the world class smallmouth and largemouth bass and crappies, and enjoy the outing and great company of our hosts and friendships made along the way. You might also note that despite the horrible conditions, those who attended (45 strong) had a great time. Since you and the rest of the guys complaining were not there.....
Here's an observation. Not long ago a LARGE select crowd was proclaiming Mille Lacs and Vermilion (plus a few other MN waters) the next coming of all things forever giant muskie, while bashing the hell (quite happily, just go back and read it, it's all here) out of other waters East of the great state of MN and literally trying to beat hell out of the management folks over there.
When that total crap stopped and dialog, funding, and new ideas were presented, progress was made over to the East, big time. Things are looking up in Wisco, and the pressure is WAY WAY down, thanks in part to some of you folks.
Now exactly as a few of us predicted in GREAT detail including information injected by a couple of the premier muskie biologists in the US and Canada, these new MN Muskie waters have come off new reservoir syndrome to lower number/ trophy fishing, highly pressured and more difficult. One observation here about Leech is priceless. That's where the Vermilion muskies came from....correct? Shouldn't it just have become a magic lamp rub from a miracle? Fisheries management is complicated and that's why folks dedicate their life to an education and career in that field, like any other science, and that isn't going to change.
I observe a lot of complaining, but #*^@ed little actual engagement to get anything done to meet what some feel are stocking 'requirements'. Stocking is taking place, and the guides are telling us the stocked fish are showing up. Proactive behavior might get some more of that going. Complaining and trying to bash an outing on this thread will not.
As a side note, Steve and Mike from Spring bay JUST missed winning the PMTT Mega on Vermilion. He tells me the absolute majority of his guide trips, and he's fully booked, are NOT muskie, they are walleye and combo. He also tells me he is VERY active trying to raise interest and whatever else is needed including money to boost stocking efforts on the Big V.
Are you? If not, and all the complaining is just to be obnoxious, those of us who get it would be appreciative if we ALL could direct energy to improving what we can. |
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Posts: 49
| Saying a lake is extremely tough isn’t bashing a lake. Is it frustrating, absolutely. I’ll still go there regularly, because of the trophy potential. I don’t really appreciate being mocked, Steve... I was just responding to a comment about pressure. Although I used leech as an example, there are numerous other big fish lakes in northern MN that see similar pressure. No bashing here. I’m glad everyone had a good time. Looks like plenty of good fish were caught. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Mocked? Was not talking to you other than the Leech comment, and that also wasn't directed to you. If you'd have been in on the 'it's the fish' debate, you would know what I was getting to. Nothing personal at all. The comment was perfect to indicate that the entire muskie management debate is far more complicated than folks think, that's all. Go back and read some of that stuff from a decade ago, you will be amazed. Those fish were supposed to be absolutely magic, according to some, and it took months of debate orchestrated masterfully by Larry and a couple others to get to the truth, which after all, is the goal here if at all possible.
I'm just really weary of folks jumping all over our outing posts to complain and toss misdirected jabs. As I said, want something to change? Get busy. Check with folks like Kellet on how to do that. |
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| sworrall - 10/20/2018 5:59 PM
I'm just really weary of folks jumping all over our outing posts to complain and toss misdirected jabs. As I said, want something to change? Get busy. Check with folks like Kellet on how to do that.
Speaking of misdirected jabs, yours at Kirby above was exactly that. Not that I keep my finger on the forum's pulse, but I don't think he's one to oversimplify the situation on the V or throw blame around. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | jaultman - 10/22/2018 7:29 AM
sworrall - 10/20/2018 5:59 PM
I'm just really weary of folks jumping all over our outing posts to complain and toss misdirected jabs. As I said, want something to change? Get busy. Check with folks like Kellet on how to do that.
Speaking of misdirected jabs, yours at Kirby above was exactly that. Not that I keep my finger on the forum's pulse, but I don't think he's one to oversimplify the situation on the V or throw blame around.
That comment was directed at about a half dozen folks who piled on, and I had already asked a couple via PM conversations to address the muskie population issue more positively and thought we had an understanding. Every time an outing report is posted, we get accused of trying to 'hype' Vermilion to be something it isn't.
And, I find it absolutely ironic that a few folks are missing where this all came from during the "it's the fish' debate and blasting the WIDNR took during that dealio. I have a tendency to remember that sort of thing, for obvious reasons. Now the tendency is to blast the MNDNR, and that also will not go without pointing out the obvious, that's our job here.
'I'm just really weary of folks jumping all over our outing posts to complain and toss misdirected jabs. As I said, want something to change? Get busy. Check with folks like Kellet on how to do that.'
That stands and was not directed at K. If we collectively want to get something positive done (and the folks at Spring Bay are trying) spending the energy that's wasted on the stuff we had to delete here doing something positive can't be bad. A tremendous amount of positive muskie action has occurred because of the community here, and not once without someone getting things organized and moving while we kept the discussion real. |
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Location: Minnesota | Ok I have to ask how many 2 pound Croppies did you find. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | muskyhunter47 - 10/22/2018 7:49 PM
Ok I have to ask how many 2 pound Croppies did you find.
Found them in Black Bay, but they went on a hunger strike. We'll get 'em again in June! |
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Location: Minnesota | Bummer |
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| Some very interesting perspectives on V in regards to the Muskie population/situation. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Is what it is and has been discussed broadly. They just stocked 3000 the other day, and many resorts and activists are searching out a way to stock more, which may or may not happen. |
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Location: Northern Illinois | More fish should be coming soon.
Fingers are crossed. |
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| To say there have been many talks with the DNR, Muskies INC, MMPA would be an understatement by a small group of people to recognize a few issues with the stocking from a statewide perspective. Back in the day the state used to get around 50-60K Muskies to go around, now, unfortunately, it is around half of that to go around. So the allocation of where the bulk of Muskies have been stocked the last 15-25 years is where a lot of eyebrows have been raised. Hoping for the best for V as well as a few others in the state that are in a similar situation.
Edited by TimmyP19 10/30/2018 7:06 AM
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