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Location: Green Bay, WI | I apologize if this is a repeated thread, and would ask one of the moderators to delete it (or move it) if appropriate, but I just wanted to pass along something I'm very proud of. This was truly a team effort, and I personally have waited a LONG time to see this in print...
I forgot to give a special THANK YOU to the MuskieFIRST organization and crew. Many many hours of discussion were had on this topic, and this would never have been nearly as successful were it not for the public forum you guys provide for an effort such as this. Makes me very proud to be a friend of the site.
Thank you again for putting up with us (or, ME...lol) for as long as you did!
Edited by tcbetka 3/12/2014 12:52 PM
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Posts: 1291
Location: Hayward, Wisconsin | Tom:
Finally, some great news for the Bay and its potentially class fish! |
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Location: South East Wisconsin | Great news! |
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Location: Elk Grove Village, IL & Phillips, WI | Fantastic!! I know you guys worked long and hard to get it! Many false starts along the way. Congrats! |
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| That's great! Any new info on the stocking? |
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Location: Green Bay, WI | Thanks guys....
Larry, I was going to give you a call in the next day or so anyway, so I'm glad you saw this.
As for the Green Bay stocking, I've been "out of touch" a bit lately, working on a pretty big software project we're trying to get going. Too much to do, too little time. But I'll try to find out as much information as I can, and report on it in the research forum.
On behalf of everyone involved with this effort, thanks again for the comments and support.
TB |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Very nice work indeed, gents, all of you are dedicated friends to trophy muskie opportunities in Wisconsin. |
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| Finally! I worked with Dennis Radloff and many others on the initial 2 petitions at the Spring Hearings, saw it favored by overwhelming votes, and shot down because of lack of support from the local biologist. He left a couple years ago, and it appears that made all the difference. Congrats and kudos to the guys who stuck with this!!
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Location: Hayward, Wisconsin | Meant to say potentially "record" class fish. |
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Location: Pulaski, WI | Great work everyone |
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Location: WI | We've got a great thing going and seeing some smaller fish last year give a lot of hope for a trophy fishery for years to come. Great work all |
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| Awesome News, now all we need is a 50" size limit in Vilas Co
Edited by RangerDangerKK 3/12/2014 8:36 PM
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| you should be very proud of the progress made
I for one Thank You and Muskies first
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| Big thanks to all who got out and voted at the
The CC Hearings each spring to get this finally through. |
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Location: Green Bay, WI | MODERATORS: Please feel free to move this thread to the research forum at this point, as the additional information I'll be posting from this point on basically pertains to stocking in the bay system.
Some folks have asked about the status of the stocking effort for the Bay of Green Bay system, so I made some calls today and will report what I learned. I spoke with both the local biologist here in the Green Bay area, and a supervisor in charge of the Kewaunee hatchery. Although there is still some uncertainty as it's early in the year, here is a synopsis of what I learned:
1) The current plan for stocking of the bay system is still centered around the use of the Kewaunee facility. To date they have been using one pond there, and have been producing about 5000 11-12" fingerlings per year for stocking into the bay system.
2) As the one pond is not big enough to support additional large fingerlings, there is currently a plan underway to "re-line" a second pond on-site, and it is anticipated that (when finished) this will increase the hatchery production by about 60%, to around 8000 large fingerlings. As the WiDNR has not yet secured funding for this effort, there is still a need for funding. While the total amount needed it not known exactly, I have been advised that it will approach the $25K mark, at least.
3) There is some talk of *possibly* using the Wild Rose hatchery to over-winter fish from Kewaunee (into 2015), when they would then be stocked as large fingerlings. However this is problematic in that it would expose the Wild Rose facility with fingerlings from known VHS-positive water. So whether or not this happens remains to be seen--and in fact I wouldn't want to have to be the one to make that decision, given the potential consequences. Additional stocking of the bay system would be most welcome--however not at the cost of placing at-risk the facility there at Wild Rose.
4) Finally, the fingerlings stocked into the three brood-stock lakes (Archibald, Anderson and Elkhart) in 2009/2010 are nowhere near sexual maturity. This of course means that there will be no gamete harvest from these fish--at least for another 2-3 years yet, at the earliest.
I think you can easily see that the stocking of the bay system remains a sticky wicket at this point, and therefore the folks at the Kewaunee facility are really our main hope to sustain some sort of stocking effort in the bay system--although certainly it isn't enough fish to maintain levels where the biologists would like it to be. However it's WAY better than nothing, and these folks have really stepped up for our fishery. So whenever you see one of these people, please thank them...buy them a drink...wash their car...or whatever you can do to show your appreciation for what they are trying to accomplish.
Finally, Titletown Muskies Inc is planning to help fund the re-lining of the second pond there in Kewaunee--and as I understand it, both the Musky Clubs Alliance of Wisconsin and Between the Lakes Chapter of MI have also pledged support. I do not yet know how much support can be provided, so I cannot answer any such questions. But we will be working on this over the next few weeks, and I can probably provide more information as it becomes available.
If anyone has any additional information, feel free to share it. I've been out of circulation a bit lately with work, so I am a bit behind the curve on this effort at this point--but trying to catch up quickly.
TB |
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Location: Warroad, Mn | Great work on the size limits! This will no doubt help produce even bigger fish from the Bay. Sounds like the Wisc DNR is working on stocking. Bet they'll figure it out. Great news for the Muskie world! Doug Johnson |
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Location: With my son on the water | This is fantastic.
How many of you even know how the fishery on the Bay got started back in the late 80's? It almost didn't happen. It is a bit of a long story and I don't remember all the details but it was persistance of one DNR man who flew to Michigan to try and get some eggs. The first year he was unsuccessful, the second year he was only able to successfully net (1 female & 1 male). If he was not successful that time it would not have happened. It was also supported by about 5 active guys in a Muskie Inc club that met at the Apple Creek in on hwy 41. That club folded because the 5 guys that were the leaders had to move on mainly due to job changes. I know all the guys personally but I don't want to mention any name as I know there was a others too. But we certainly owe them a Thanks.
The point is (don't take this fishery for granted) as it almost didn't happen.
Someone should actually get all the facts and document what was done before it is forgotten.
Have a good day  |
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Posts: 45
| btfish - 3/14/2014 8:09 AM
This is fantastic.
How many of you even know how the fishery on the Bay got started back in the late 80's? It almost didn't happen. It is a bit of a long story and I don't remember all the details but it was persistance of one DNR man who flew to Michigan to try and get some eggs. The first year he was unsuccessful, the second year he was only able to successfully net (1 female & 1 male). If he was not successful that time it would not have happened. It was also supported by about 5 active guys in a Muskie Inc club that met at the Apple Creek in on hwy 41. That club folded because the 5 guys that were the leaders had to move on mainly due to job changes. I know all the guys personally but I don't want to mention any name as I know there was a others too. But we certainly owe them a Thanks.
The point is (don't take this fishery for granted) as it almost didn't happen.
Someone should actually get all the facts and document what was done before it is forgotten.
Have a good day :)
Excellent suggestion. While playing a big role over the past 8-10 years in regulation change support, stocking support, and data tracking, Muskies Inc., in fact had very little to do with the rehabilitation of the Green Bay fishery. There are a few clubs(a couple in particular) including Daves Musky Club and Winnebegoland(there were several more listed in the provided link) that footed 100% of the bill to raise and feed the Muskies to be stocked in to the bay for the several years it took to build this fishery to the point that M.I. could again reside in the area. The local MI club had folded by the time things got rolling, and the new chapter has the clubs in the alliance to thank for one of the greatest fishing success stories in any of our times.
Again, this is not a rub on M.I. as I am a member, but I have watched a couple television programs giving all of the credit to MI for the GB success story, when they didn't even exist in the area while these clubs quietly struggled to foot hundreds of thousands in of dollars in feed and raise fish, to make this fishery what we have today. Agreed, someone with some more intimate knowledge as to how it all began should write something up and stash it away, if it hasn't been done. Great story about extremely hard work by a few individuals 20-30 years ago, in the private sector providing for a struggling DNR budget. Thank you unnamed guys from back in the day(Gene Allen being one of them). And thank you M.I. for continuing to carry the torch, as the fishery is really depending on you to carry that torch right now in struggling times. Here's a link from 10 years ago...
http://www.outdoornews.com/July-2004/Yearlings-bolster-Green-Bay-mu...
Edited by Boots Electric 3/14/2014 10:11 AM
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Location: 31 | Excellent idea to give credit where it is due and hear the beginning history on GB. Thank you!!! |
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| Boots, thanks for the link. Great history detailed.
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Location: With my son on the water | Many people deserve the credit but the guy who made it happen was Brian Belonger who is now retired from the DNR, the first fish went in in 1989.
Brian took his own time to give presentations to area clubs looking for funds to support this. Believe it or not most of the guys back then thought it was a dumb idea and didn't want to support it but seeing most clubs had money but no projects they gave in. I was knee deep in the whole thing and Brian is a great man.
Today MOST people you talk to still think the fishery in GB is from natural fish and we all know better.
This has to be one of the best conservation success storie out there, let's keep it positive. |
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Location: On the Niagara River in Buffalo, NY | Tom, The effort to get 54" sizelimit also extended accross all of the NY Great Lakes Waters for 2015 as well! I surely believe your effort there helped us get 54" on the Upper & Lower Niagara River, Lake Ontario and the "Larry"! We had 54" on the Buffalo Harbor and Lake Erie for some years now!
Congrads on the great work! |
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Location: Green Bay, WI | Thanks Larry--hopefully the Great Lakes waters will become consistent in that respect, so that it will help us see what these fish can truly achieve, in terms of growth potential.
As to the comments regarding the history of the re-introduction period of muskellunge in Green Bay. I for one studied this quite extensively when preparing an argument to support the request for an emergency moratorium on harvest back in 2008. For anyone wanting to review the request and perhaps get a bit more history on the re-introduction program:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/2kvqo4
In the course of doing the research for that document, I spoke to many folks that were involved from back in the 80s--and these people truly did give an amazing gift to the fishery. Simply put, it would NOT be what it is today were it not for the combined efforts of folks too numerous to mention. As to MI's role--I think, at least from my perspective, that the organization has simply tried to join in the effort and do whatever it can to further the cause so to speak. By virtue of the fact that the local chapter is right there in Green Bay, and in fact holds its meetings at the mouth of the Fox River, I think there might be a tendency to associate the organization WITH the program...if for no other reason than that the chapter is so active on behalf of the fishery.
When I was VP of Fisheries & Research, I always tried to stress the role of those who came before me in any efforts on behalf of the fishery. I have written about this many times, and will continue to do so. I also recently commented in a Facebook thread about one of the television fishing shows mentioning the efforts of Muskies Inc, but no other groups. I can certainly see where some folks might take this the wrong way, but in all honesty (and as btfish mentioned) I seriously doubt that the show's host even had an idea of the rich history of the re-introduction effort dating back 25+ years. So I'd like to think that an error of omission was simply that...just not knowing the entire story. But as the success of the program continues to shine through, it's up to all of us to make sure that people know about the countless hours (and dollars) put into the program by those who came before us.
Simply put, the fishery is MUCH bigger than any one person or group of people. We're talking about helping to form a stable ecosystem in Green Bay, and in my humble opinion, anyone interested and willing to lend a hand is welcome in the effort. At the end of the day, I am simply thrilled that the size limit has been increased. What a tremendously altruistic thing to do for the future of the sport musky fishing in the Bay system.
(Edit: On a parenthetical note, we just got to Florida on Spring Break: 73 degrees, green trees, bright blue sky without a single cloud, calm winds. Now all I need is a flats boat and a Redfish guide, and I'll be in heaven!)
TB
Edited by tcbetka 3/15/2014 11:09 AM
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Posts: 999
| Last I heard they were looking for a diverse fishery in the Bay so I'm wondering with the absence of natural reproduction, very limited stocking and a huge gap in stocking, why in the world can't we supplement with an inland strain of fish such as Kalupps? The Kalupps strain proved to grow huge Mill lacs. Just a shame that many local clubs would love to pump more fish into the bay but cant. |
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Location: Green Bay, WI | This is a fair question, but I don't know the "real" answer. What I have heard mentioned though, is that the biologists are trying to be true to the historic genotype of the sub-species native to the bay system. In other words, the Great Lakes Spotted Muskellunge, Esox masquinongy masquinongy.
I have not heard that there was interest in actually stocking either of the other two sub-species into the bay system...although that doesn't mean that it's not in the master plan. But maybe you know something that I don't--that's entirely possible.
TB |
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Posts: 45
| Excellent Points Tom. The bottom line, as mentioned, is that as a collective unit, a small project to re-invest in Green Bays Muskellunge heritage, turned into one of the biggest natural resource success stories in state history. That's happened elsewhere, where Muskies had been completely eradicated through pollution 100 years ago, and re-stocked. All of these efforts, no matter who takes the credit, benefit us all.
The comment regarding using Kalepp fish is not a foreign topic. If research serves me correctly, that gene pool and/or other similar in a fairly high number of fish raised by the Consolidated Musky Club Inc. in Central WI in the early 80's was planted in Sturgeon Bay. I still hear of stories of those fish showing up, and there was an illegally ice captured fish of near record proportions, from that stocking, kept, a number of years ago. I think most/all of Kalleps fish are accounted for long in advance, but not sure. As far as what is allowable/advisable in terms of stocking 'other' fish in the bay now, I don't believe that's the direction they want to go, but perhaps Tom can better answer to that.
Edited by Boots Electric 3/15/2014 11:01 PM
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Location: On the Niagara River in Buffalo, NY | I know the genetics between Great Lakes Strain Muskies from Georgian Bay, St. Lawrence River & Niagara River / Buffalo Harbor are all different based on recent studies and biolegists do not want to mix them here at the Buffalo Harbor. They are leaning more toward habitat restoration. PA has stocked Great Lakes Strain Muskies in Presque Isle Bay in front of Erie, Pa on Lake Erie.I 'm not sure where they got the eggs or fry from, but they did raise them to fingerlings at Linesville Hatchery. |
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Posts: 455
| Very interesting Larry. I would have not guessed the great lakes fish were different in those locations. Good thing they now know. Worst thing you can do is mess up something good. Is there currently spawning on Green bay? Have traditional spawning sites been found and improved or protected? Sure seams that would give you the best bang for your buck. |
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