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Muskie Fishing -> Lures,Tackle, and Equipment -> Pro Fisherman?
 
Message Subject: Pro Fisherman?
Nick Schwall
Posted 2/25/2003 12:37 AM (#61372)
Subject: Pro Fisherman?




Posts: 50


Location: Far Northwest Chicago Suburb
First off I would like to say, I respect pro musky fishing. My question is how do you get your name synonymous with professional? I'm not trying to be a wise guy, I'm just curious if anyone out there has an idea where this came from on the stand point of my opinion. The point: I have been fishing almost all my life, and I know a few anglers that would probably do very well in "Professional Tournaments." The issue I have is fishing can become pretty down right easy compared to other more rigourous "Professional Sports." Anybody under certain situations can catch plenty of large musky consitently, even without a guide or "Pro." Why? Well my friends and I catch plenty of nice sized musky, but we are in no way, shape, or form professional fisherman!

Food for thought, Can Al Linder be able to take up "Professional Baseball," "Professional Golf," or any other "Pro sport." Think about it, fishing can be the easiest sport to become "Professional" in then any other sport! Any other views, please, please, I mean no disrespect to Pro fishermen but am wondering how you call yourselves professional when there are a lot of great fisherman who are not "Professional." -Understand the context.

Do I need to write articles on the same techniques over and over again in certain fishing magaizenes with thousands of advertizements and sponser, to become "professional" grade?

sworrall
Posted 2/25/2003 1:04 AM (#61373 - in reply to #61372)
Subject: RE: Pro Fisherman?





Posts: 32893


Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin

It really is pretty simple. One needs to be able to claim a good portion of one's living is made fishing. There are tournament Pros, defined by fishing an entire circuit and several other events every year, supported by whatever means one has, like guiding, owning a shop or business, or whatever. Tony Grant is an example. One can lose alot of money doing this, but the term 'Pro' is applied by sanctioning groups like the NPAA based on criteria defined by competition.

Then there are the TV, radio, and printed media Pros, who are Pros by literal virtue of the fact they earn their living by presenting a package (themselves) to the entertainment industry and are accepted by the public.  Bob M is a great example of a combination of both the above. Jim Saric also would fit here as well as anywhere in the catagories; his vehicle is a well known magazine. Both use tactics from all the above as well, but concentrate on the media angle.

Then there are the professional guides who earn their keep on the water day in and day out. If they write, or do a few shows and work hard to catch lots of big fish, the public will eventually recognize them as Pro status. Rizzo comes to mind there, as does Schulta, Swanson, Doug J, Murph, Sabota and many more. Anglers like Crash combine the best of the three points above in his portfolio.

Then there are the guys who build baits or own bait companies, write, do TV, guide, do shows, seminars, and everything else they can imagine and afford to promote the package. Maina, Bucher, and some of the high profile guys from In Fish are examples.

The hardest group to describe are the guys who have, without tooting their horns TOO much, simply risen to the top of the crowd. You know who they are, but they may not realize they are there at the top, and for that matter may not care much. They just want to fish! Herbie fits here better than anywhere, 'cept he owns a Canadian camp.

Is it 'easy' to do any of the above? No. It is VERY difficult to 'make it' in this business. As many aspiring pros hear from those who have been around that block a few times, as they try to reach Pro status; "Don't quit your day job."

Hope I answered this as well as you asked the question!

Nick Schwall
Posted 2/25/2003 1:30 AM (#61375 - in reply to #61372)
Subject: RE: Pro Fisherman?




Posts: 50


Location: Far Northwest Chicago Suburb
Hey Steve, why didn't you state your name in there? Are you not a Professional? Thank you for a great insite on the point I was trying to get across. Well put I must say. You are right on the guy's at the top, but really don't realize how good they really have it! Yes, I can see how hard it can be to make it to the professional ranks. I'll stick to pro baseball!
sworrall
Posted 2/25/2003 9:45 AM (#61406 - in reply to #61375)
Subject: RE: Pro Fisherman?





Posts: 32893


Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin

Nick,

I had a great fastball (90), and an excellent breaking ball. I even could throw a knuckler and keep it over the plate most of the time, but no one wanted to catch it. Problem was, I looked ridiculous in a uniform, and couldn't spit worth a darn. Besides, baseball was played in the spring and summer, and the water beckoned..

Shep
Posted 2/25/2003 11:18 AM (#61417 - in reply to #61406)
Subject: RE: Pro Fisherman?





Posts: 5874


Nick, there is a big difference between being a professional fisherman, and a "Pro" athlete. You've hit a sore spot with me, as what has happened to "Pro" soprts the last 15 years or so has really soured me on most "Pro" sports. So much so, that when I hear somebody called a "Pro" athlete, I just laugh. Most "Pro" athletes today are anything BUT professional. They are called "Pro's" only because they get paid to play a game. That's about as far as I'll go.

You ask how fishermen can call themselves "Professional" fishermen, when there are alot great fishermen who are not Professionals. First, just because you enter a "Pro" tournament, doesn't really qualify you as a real "Pro". To me the true professionals are those who have chosen to fish for a living, guiding, owning a business, teaching, writing, and all the rest that goes with it. It is their passion. They live it, sleep it, breathe it, teach it, and yes, some even make a decent living from it. I doubt that it would be any easier for Randy Moss to become a Pro fisherman, than it would be for Al Lindner to become a "Pro" athlete.
strike_zone
Posted 2/25/2003 11:36 AM (#61418 - in reply to #61372)
Subject: RE: Pro Fisherman?





Posts: 132


Location: Kawarthas, Ontario
I would also add that if you tally up the thousands of hours that many pro fisherman have invested in learning their quarry, the lakes, and their techniques... that same time if invested in golf, bowling, tennis, or many other sports, could likely generate one a significantly higher level of income than the average pro fisherman makes.

The on and off-field behaviour of many "pro athletes" is not something that many of us would aspire to. And while it is true that pro fisherman (and even those of us in the muskie world) have differences of opinion, I would like to think that for the most part, our conduct is significantly more mature and respectful of others than the behaviour we frequently read and hear reported in the media regarding so many over-paid professional athletes.

Lastly, some people even dispute whether fishing is even a sport. Well, if you don't think muskie fishing constitutes a phyiscal sport, go ahead and clip a 10 inch Reef Hawg on your line, and try casting it for 8 to 10 hours. If you aren't in some measure of physical shape, you'll be laying on the floor of the boat before the end of the first hour!

Professionalism in my mind conjures up two definitions... being paid to do what it is you do, and reaching a certain level of behaviour that is defined by your results and your conduct. Perhaps a little simplistic, but it works for me.

Steve Wickens
STRIKE ZONE Muskie Charters
Tony_Grant
Posted 2/26/2003 5:38 PM (#61608 - in reply to #61372)
Subject: RE: Pro Fisherman?




Posts: 172


I think that the fact that anyone can enter is what makes it great. I have seen the winning team with the first muskie the guy had ever caught. On the other hand I have seen great fisherman go the hole trail witout a fish, that happens alot. The fact that knowone has doubled to win 2 quailfiers in four years shows how tough it is. The PMTT is NO JOKE in fact it is great for the sport. More people involved in muskie fishing means more lakes will have muskies and more muskies will be in our lakes, it's that simple. Also to get in it's not BIG MONEY $225 per team member gets you in, is that big money? with guys paying $25, & $35 even $45 for a single bait? Fish one and you will have a great time. And see just how tough it is.
Lightning
Posted 2/27/2003 12:34 PM (#61715 - in reply to #61608)
Subject: RE: Pro Fisherman?





Posts: 485


Location: On my favorite lake!
I have fished muskies for about 15 years now. I like to fish tourneys with my local Muskies Inc. chapter. and I have done very well in them. I consider myself a good Muskie angler but no where close to a pro. I have had great days like many ,best being 12 legal fish in the boat for one day. I am still learning and try to fish a few new lakes in a different state each year. The thing that gets me about the PMT is that I know some of the guys who took part in the PMT and can safely say that they do not belong on any type of professional tourney. Well, maybe the beer drinkers! Some haven't even fished in the state one of the tourneys was being held in until the week of the tourney. Now that is not right! I just believe the best Muskie anglers should be in the tournaments and some are. Anything less than the best makes the whole tour look bad!
sworrall
Posted 2/27/2003 4:28 PM (#61773 - in reply to #61715)
Subject: RE: Pro Fisherman?





Posts: 32893


Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin

Lightning;

The fact one fishes a PMTT doesn't make that angler a Pro. In fact, unless the entire circuit is fished, the team can't be listed as 'touring '. If, however, the team fishes every PMTT for more than one year, they are considered a touring Pro Team. First year is their rookie year. If they don't win, then they don't. At least they compete! If a team competes for several years, believe me, they will learn a volume from the other anglers. It takes a considerable committment to time and money to fish an entire circuit, more than most anglers wish to make.

I would seriously disagree with your comment about fishing the tournament lake for the first time a week before the event. Many of the anglers don't have the time to prefish for a longer period of time, and that can seperate the masses, so to speak, in a hurry. One true test of skill is the ability to approach a new body of water, learn it, and nail down two or three fishable patterns in a few days.

It is, I can tell you from experience, a thrill to defeat the local anglers on their home water under those conditions. It does happen!

The comment of the 'best' being in the tournaments is also something to address. Some of the top sticks in the tournaments accross the country were amateurs a couple years ago. One has to start somewhere.  The teams that make the Championship have earned that post, and the winners live at the top for one season. Any team lacking the skills won't make it, and many made up of two proven veterans won't, either. That's competition, and is part of what makes competitive muskie fishing so much of a challenge. One 'headshake' can make or break a team in any event, and sometimes for the season.

What you are suggesting is that only top Pros should fish an event like the PMTT. It will, eventually, be tougher to get accepted as a touring team, as it has in the prestigeous In Fisherman PWT. As competitive muskie angling grows, there will be the circuit that sets the angler apart from the masses, like the winners of the Rollie and Helens, or the WMT style events. The MWC and WWA serve that function now for the walleye guys, at least according to the National Professional Anglers Association sanctioning. I have great hopes there will someday be a ranking system for the competitive muskie anglers. I predict that 'someday' is coming, very soon!

Lightning
Posted 2/28/2003 4:27 PM (#62000 - in reply to #61372)
Subject: RE: Pro Fisherman?





Posts: 485


Location: On my favorite lake!
Scott,
I think it would be great to have some sort of rating system for anglers that way they have to earn there way into the qualifiers. I don't think the qualifiers should be the only determining factor. If a team got lucky they could be in the Championship. Maybe the solution is a few more tourneys. That way you could really see who finished near the top again and again. You wouldn't enter a Honda Accord into an Indy car race. It would be embarrassing and stupid. Just like anyone can troll a few baits and get lucky! The PMT has the potential to be a good tour but a few changes need to be made.
sworrall
Posted 2/28/2003 6:02 PM (#62009 - in reply to #62000)
Subject: RE: Pro Fisherman?





Posts: 32893


Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin

I still think you are focusing way too much on  PMTT events. It is possible for someone to 'get lucky' and catch enough fish to win an event, but I haven't seen that happen yet. The idea of a Trail IS qualifying teams to make the Championship. There is no other method out there to pre-qualify a team for the event.

SImply put, whomever wins an individual event earns the right to sit atop that pedestal for one year. Whomever manages to catch enough fish to make the Championship has EARNED the right to fish for the PMTT crown. Anyone who manages to 'luck' their way to that point I want to fish with;  in the hope some rubs off.

The PMTT is currently the only Trail that travels the country, draws teams from many states, and creates an opportunity for muskie anglers to compete on more than a local basis. There are two state based trails, the WMT and the Minnesota Muskie trail. Many of the anglers fishing the PMTT fish one or more of these events too.

I fail to see where the PMTT needs to make changes. If the fact that anyone can get in bothers you, get used to it. If a team consistently fails to produce, they will fade way from the Trail because of the sheer cost in time and money. Anyone can get into the MWC, and it isn't ALL that hard to make one division of the PWT. If you are looking for the type of ststem B.A.S.S uses, the muskie world is years away from putting anything of that scope into play.

I also don't see the objection in the first place. No one who fishes a couple PMTT events considers himself a Tournament Pro. Those who do consider themselves a Pro have earned that right. Also, this is a CLASSIFICATION of the term Pro, not a total definition, as I said in my original answer.

Don Pfeiffer
Posted 3/3/2003 11:57 AM (#62215 - in reply to #61372)
Subject: RE: Pro Fisherman?




Posts: 929


Location: Rhinelander.
I have to agree with steve that anyone should be able to fish the P.M.T.T. as there is something to be learned from local anglers fishing only only the tournament in there area. I Think one big point that is missed is that many anglers fish them for fun and thats great. If they win good for them. Its a sport and all who pay the entry fee are welcome. I have met some some really nice folks that only fish one a year.
Pro status I think is up to you. Does the person fit your criteria to be called a pro. I thinkk anyone that makes a good part of earnings from fishing could be be called a pro. I think those that educate others with articles or seminars also could be.
To me its just another label,does it really matter? Heck just fish and have fun.
Don Pfeiffer
Scott Jenkins
Posted 3/9/2003 2:00 AM (#63010 - in reply to #62215)
Subject: RE: Pro Fisherman?





Posts: 355


Location: Silver Lake, WI
Nick,

Great question. I am sure there are a lot of people out there who have the same question and have been hesitant to ask it. There have been some great responses above.

When Jason Smith asked me to be a contributing "PRO" to this site I cringed at first and was hesitant. I will be the first one to tell you that I am not a pro (at least in my own mind). The reason I say that is I feel I have way too much to learn and get better at to be labeled a pro. What I do have though, is something to offer. That something is time on the water (i.e experience). This is where I will concentrate on your last sentence as far as what do you have to do to become a pro.

For me, it all started by winning the World Championship Musky Classic. I got hooked up with the tackle company whose lure I used to catch the winning fish. The following year, I went to sport shows showing off my trophy and talking about my experiences as part of their pro staff. Was I a pro at the time. No way. The key is I had something to offer. I won a tournament and was able to help sell more baits by going to shows and talking to people. Well one of the constant questions that I would get is did I guide at all. Before I knew it, Musky U Guide Service was formed and I was taking people out fishing. My contacts in the industry continued to grow as I went to sport shows and worked booths. I started writing articles and going to clubs and speaking. I made sure I fished in several tournaments every year. Before I knew it, I was doing radio shows and filming segments on TV shows. Why?? Was I some big name fisherman? Absolutely not. I had something to offer - experience and success on the water. I like to talk with people about my experiences and hopefully help give them some tips and information that will help them catch some fish. I like standing up in front of hundreds of people and talking about fishing. How much better could that be? To me, it is a total adrenaline rush.

This is what companies look for when they select individuals to be a part of their "Pro Staff".
1) EXPERIENCE
2) Resume with what you have to offer
3) You need to use the product
4) You need to believe in the product
5) You need to provide feedback - good or bad
6) You need to be successful
7) You need to be able to communicate on all levels with confidence
8) You need to represent the company in a professional manner at all times
9) You need to be visible in the industry
10) You need a vehicle to help promote their products (i.e. guide service, website, work at sport shows, write articles, talk on radio shows, appear on TV shows, make videos, appear in videos, etc....)

I am a firm believer in the three P's (Practice, Patience, Persistence). Countless hours of time on the water have put me in a good position to be able to talk about my successes and failures with confidence in front of a crowd. I am also a firm believer in the fact that Success is when Preparation meets Opportunity. ALWAYS be prepared and you WILL be successful. You never know who you will meet or when you might meet them. If you are prepared, that new relationship can take you places you never thought you would go.

Now all that being said, does that make me a pro? Not in my book but if I can help someone else, I guess I have been called worse.

I don't think I do anything special from a fishing standpoint but clients and friends say differently. The best compliment I have gotten several times is that I am like a well oiled machine that never quits. Still doesn't make me a pro. My success has come because I have spent countless hours in preparation for that one opportunity when it presents itself. Words to live by I guess.

Hope this helps in some way. Good luck to you!
MuskieMedic
Posted 3/10/2003 4:36 AM (#63103 - in reply to #61372)
Subject: RE: Pro Fisherman?





Posts: 2091


Location: Stevens Point, WI
Lightning,

Maybe this will put things into perspective a little. I am NOT a professional angler, just you average muskie joe who pounds the water a lot. The word PRO obviously comes from the word professional which would describe someone who by either schooling, apprenticeship, or job experience has a good handle on either their trade or hobby, sport or whatever they do. I am a Paramedic and my peers and I would label me a professional. "Pro" fisherman have put in many of hours of time on and off the water to become proficient in what they do, as I have in school and direct patient care. I may just be babbling....but this is what makes us professionals.

Posted 4/15/2003 8:06 AM (#66964 - in reply to #62009)
Subject: RE: Pro Fisherman?


i waant pussy
guideman
Posted 4/17/2003 8:05 AM (#67172 - in reply to #66964)
Subject: RE: Pro Fisherman?




Posts: 376


Location: Lake Vermilion Tower, MN
Hi All,
Just to clear the air on "lucking out" at a tournament. I fished the
MWC for several years and the very
first thing you learn is that Luck
has Nothing to do with success, as a tournament angler.

How many times have you heard it?;
"I could be a guide if I wanted to
or I could win that tournament if I could find a partner?

There are tournament anglers and then there are guys who sometimes fish tournaments. The way you approch it, will go a long way in determining what your true status is, Pro or otherwise.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if your making a living as a
professional angler, Luck has very
little to do with it.
Musky Fever
Posted 4/17/2003 9:10 AM (#67183 - in reply to #61372)
Subject: RE: Pro Fisherman?





Location: Illinois-Indiana
Well said Mr. Jenkins, Scott nailed it.

I don't in any way consider myself a PRO, I think that is just a LABEL,
there are labels in every walk of life. I think some PRO athletes are not PRO's, they just go through the motions, it's all about money. Think of the olden days when guys would play a certain sport for free just for the LOVE of the game.
Nick Schwall
Posted 4/21/2003 12:31 AM (#67512 - in reply to #61372)
Subject: RE: Pro Fisherman?




Posts: 50


Location: Far Northwest Chicago Suburb
Scott thank you for going out on a limb and speaking out very professionally! Including all the insites from the rest of the crowd. They were all very informative and conclusive to my point. I feel there are a lot of professionals in our sport of musky angling even if they are not cosidered a professional.
MJB_04
Posted 4/24/2003 12:59 AM (#67902 - in reply to #61372)
Subject: RE: Pro Fisherman?





Posts: 346


If you are a muskie fisherman you can be proud, your not beholding to anyone, you are your own person and you have one thing today’s professional athlete does not have, HEART.

MJB
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