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Posts: 2
| I saw another post about season openers and the spawn and it got me to thinking.
In northern Nebraska there is a fairly decent musky lake, nothing close to MN or LOTW, etc...
The lake produces quality northern pike fishing via natural reproduction via spring spawn, But the musky which are put in the lake by the State Game and Parks do not reproduce via natural spawn.
The lake is Merritt Reservor, average depth is 35 feet, with max depth of 115 feet, 3000 acres full pool and seems to remain cool enough in hot summer months. There is very little if any rock.
So I wonder why Musky do not naturally reproduce in this Nebraska lake? |
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Posts: 8772
| My guess is that they probably do, but since Pike spawn earlier and hatch earlier, whatever muskies that hatch most likely become prey for the YOY Pike. |
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Posts: 130
Location: Duluth, MN | esoxaddict - 4/5/2013 6:40 PM
My guess is that they probably do, but since Pike spawn earlier and hatch earlier, whatever muskies that hatch most likely become prey for the YOY Pike.
+1 |
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Posts: 20212
Location: oswego, il | if the lale has a silty bottom or alot of suspended sediments the eggs will suffocate and never hatch. |
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Posts: 2894
Location: Yahara River Chain | All of the above. Also being later spawners, the oxygen levels may be less due to runoff of organic matter and other conditions and therefore suffocating the spawn.
And keep in mind that just one of these conditions may not mean doom to the spawn, but a little of each certainly does. |
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Posts: 4266
| Aren't pike and muskies both "broadcast Spawners"? The females swim and dump eggs randomly and the males swim behind them and spew milt making the chances of hitting a target a slim chance. I don't think that you can "sex" fish that get planted, so there could be lots of females and few males to fertilize the eggs. You figure any fish that broadcast spawn have a lesser chance for reproduction the way it is. |
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Posts: 1290
Location: Hayward, Wisconsin | Pike eggs "stick" to vegetation, muskie eggs do not and often suffocate in the muck. |
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| I have read many of the studies etc.. etc.... I know of a few lakes that are not suppose to have natural reproduction but do. The common item on those lakes are a high amount of down timber, nice clay weed flats and decent wind action. I have often wondered if the spawn sticks to the timber and there is enough but not too much water movement to keep the eggs from being covered with sediment and yet kept from washing off the timber. The lakes I know of would not need stocking if it were not for mortality and angler harvest. If Larry reads this perhaps he has some thoughts? |
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| There is a lot of research into this, much done by WI, and NY, which I believe were the first two states to artificially propagate them. As I remember what I have read, there are several things needed for propagation, including the right water chemistry, which if I am not mistaken requires a little iron content? But you also have to have a clean spawning bed of some type to maintain oxygenation, and food of the right size at the right time is also extremely important. All of these are more likely to be roadblocks to reproduction than predation I think, and recent stuff they just put out in M inc. mag seems to indicate they question the idea of pike fry cleaning out the muskie fry, which was once thought to be a problem. And if my memory serves me. bass predation can be much harder on stockers, than northern pike predation. Love a musky, eat a bass, eh? Evidently there have been some fish successfully hatched out of suspended screen frames, where just the eggs were planted. I would be curious as to whether the lower eastern riverine strains have exactly the same water chemistry needs as those further north or whether they developed and evolved in isolation, perhaps carrying some differing whater chemistry, temp, O2 needs from the others genetic groups. And I also have a question for historians with more knowledge than I, were there populations west of the Mississippi river south of MN or were there just populations related to the eastern mt ranges? Surely the temp needs alone would not have precluded some of the western tributaries from holding musky if there weren't distinct water chemistry needs? |
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| I think the original native range extended south and west of the Mississippi a bit. I read Larry Ramsells book which names a few odd lakes that no longer contain them in Minnesota. My great great grandfather heavily speared muskies from a lake in Western Minnesota where there is no known muskies in and part of the Minnesota river watershed with a very very small creek leaving the lake. Agriculture activities near the lake shore, my relatives spearing, and the dust bowl years of the 30s wiped the population out of that lake.
Just got done seeing the 3-D re-make of Jurasic park. Quote from the movie "life will find a way" I am not buying all the supposed no natural reproduction theories. |
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Posts: 1290
Location: Hayward, Wisconsin | Research from Dr. Crossman indicated that fossil remains have been as far west as Washington and southwest into Oklahoma if my memory is correct.
As alluded to above, water chemistry apparently has a great deal to do with successful spawning.
The distribution of muskies after the last glacial melt back was due mostly to timing, rivers and streams and luck...success thereafter due to water chemistry likely. There are undoubtedly many lakes with the "right stuff" within the muskies original/current range, but they never got there before glacial waters ran off (got lower) and isolated both waters they got into (allopatric without pike present) as well as lakes that could have become good muskie lakes but muskies never reached. Those connected to the major river systems almost all have native muskies or did at one time. |
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Posts: 153
Location: MN | http://hatch.cehd.umn.edu/research/fish/fishes/muskellunge.html |
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Posts: 1290
Location: Hayward, Wisconsin | Some old and outdated and incorrect facts contained in that article! |
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Posts: 153
Location: MN | That may be true but I spent a few hours reading info on alot of other fish and minnows here:
http://hatch.cehd.umn.edu/research/fish/fishes/natural_history.html |
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Posts: 1169
Location: New Hope MN | Is there anything that could be done to the spawning grounds to make them any more successful? |
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Posts: 2384
Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | FSF, I think predation has a lot to do with survival of muskies. In a lot of the millfoil lakes I believe that the over abundance of small sunfish are probably the hardest on young muskies. Bass as well as pike are also problem species. Minnetonka is believed to have a very small natural population and has all of these predators. Right across the road there is another body of water that was used by the DNR and had been killed off and only shiners, green sunfish, crappie, brown bullhead and muskie stocked. We have found many year classes of muskies in this body of water which has very similar characteristics as Minnetonka. I know that there is a lot more to it, but I found it very interesting. |
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Posts: 8772
| dtaijo174 - 4/9/2013 9:36 AM
Is there anything that could be done to the spawning grounds to make them any more successful?
Problems with silt and shoreline erosion can be addressed by the individual landowners. Shoreline "buffer zones" are one option. I suppose you could transplant vegetation in some areas. I think people are starting to come around with this, and realizing that removing all the substrate and vegetation may not be such a good idea.
I doubt there's much you can do about water chemistry, except to not fertilize your lawn. But the way I understand it, urban and agricultural runoff is the biggest culprit. |
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