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Posts: 271
Location: Oregon, WI | With all the threads regarding trolling, dragging suckers, etc. Is jigging while moving the boat with the trolling motor considered trolling? |
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Posts: 719
| In a tournament when trolling is not allowed it would be....until you turn the handle once. |
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Location: Elgin, IL | Personally speaking, yes. I just drift and jig to be sure, trying to follow the rules as best I can.
And I really like Jon's baits. |
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Posts: 719
| Thanks Mark! Good fishing |
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Posts: 1220
| Let's say you were jigging for Walleye using the bow mount only to keep you more or less vertical in wind and current (as is often the practice) .....I'd say you are not. Now, if you took your Bondy, held it a foot off the bottom, and then set your bow mount on 50% while you "cruised" up the shoreline gently lifting and lowering the bait...well then you'd be a troller fursure! Probably catch one too. Using power to maintain a vertical presentation versus using a motor to drag a bait around is certainly judged incorrectly at times by a warden who has a stick up his "business" but I think it's one of those things when, for the most part, you KNOW what you are doing and your nose is getting longer while you try to "Splain It!" |
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Posts: 271
Location: Oregon, WI | Bondy, ironic you should mention tournaments. One of the reasons I asked this question is basically for that senario. I've seen teams doing this and had asked them the same question, is this considered trolling, of course they said no it's position fishing, but since they didn't put fish in the boat, it was a mute point so nothing was said. I myself have refrained from doing it, in tournaments, because you are not actively retrieving the bait and the boat is being moved via trolling motor unless of course the bow is pointed into the wind and is just being used to slow the drift down. In that case, I would think it's not trolling but it would be a little uncomfortable to have to explain all the circumstances, and prove it, should you put fish in the boat and a fellow competitor files a complaint. Unfortunately the wind isn't always in your favor. Just another reason the WI dnr has to remove the gray area regarding trolling. Basically is moving with the aid of the trolling motor at a snails pace considered trolling or position fishing?
Started using bondy's to some degree last year and they did put fish in the boat. Great bait and tactic. You just have to have the confidence to give it some time because it can be "boring" but the rewards can be BIG.
Edited by V18 3/11/2013 3:09 AM
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Posts: 719
| This comes up time to time in bass events, even at the highest level. A newer technique that I first saw on Lake Fork involves using deep diving crank baits and 6 or 8 lb test. You cast the bait out and then free spool it all the way to the bottom of the spool while going in one direction as fast as you can with the electric to let all the line out. This basically lets you get a bait deeper than normal and even big events have been won doing it. Should an angler engage the reel and hold it there for a few seconds while still going forward with the motor that would be against the rules....a real grey area. I would say just turn the handle every once in a while and you're good. |
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Posts: 1220
| John's talking about a presentation that is called, "Long Lining." A lot of musky guys have been trying it too lately. The idea is that a crank bait wastes a lot of the distance between you and the boat just getting to the desired depth..and then it's back to you before you know it..not having spent a lot of time in the "strike zone." You could cast your bait 30 yards, then run the boat 200 yards in free-spool, stop the boat, engage the reel and do what a troller does where trolling is not legal. It's a perfectly good option, legal too, but again,,,,,,you may have to do some serious "Splaining" to someone who does not understand what you are doing!!! |
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Posts: 130
Location: Madison, WI | From the 2013 WI Fishing Regs:
“Position fishing” is fishing from a boat where the fishing line extends vertically into the water while the boat is maneuvered (forwards or backwards) by a motor used to position or maintain the position of the boat over underwater structure. Position fishing is allowed statewide in all waters.
I would read this as vertical jigging is allowed if:
1) your line is vertical
2) you are over underwater structure
Since there is no definition of underwater structure, I can't imagine that part getting you. So, it likely boils down to whether your line is vertical or not. You could be trolling one minute and position fishing the next.
Has there been any DNR official rulings or interpretations on position fishing (like the USGA publishes for golf) that might clarify?
Edited by dcorfman 3/11/2013 1:25 PM
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Posts: 2097
| If thereb is this much confusion trolling does need to be legalized across the state. |
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Posts: 130
Location: Madison, WI | Junkman - "Now, if you took your Bondy, held it a foot off the bottom, and then set your bow mount on 50% while you "cruised" up the shoreline gently lifting and lowering the bait...well then you'd be a troller fursure!"
I would disagree. If your line is vertical, you would be position fishing. You would be fishing from a boat where the fishing line extends vertically into the water while the boat is maneuvered forward by a motor used to position the boat over underwater structure. I would think the whole existence of "position fishing" in the regs is to allow the use of a motor while employing a vertical or vertical jigging angling method. What other angling methods would fit the definition of position fishing?
If your line was NOT vertical, you would be trolling.
Edited by dcorfman 3/11/2013 1:50 PM
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| I am not always right (Thank God..always good looking though) and maybe am wrong this time too...but I am sticking with what I am saying. In the instance mentioned above, you are definitely trolling. The Bondy, being what it is, will clearly be easier to achieve a vertical position while under power than a lot of baits...but you are still using the boat to drag your bait across the lake. In fact, a lot of trollers (the really good ones) will also pull and let up on their line while motoring to impart an added motion to what otherwise may be steady (boring) movement. You're not holding a "position" in this case. You are just moving a bait up and down while trolling. My suggestion: if you are in non-legal trolling waters and want to do this....drift in the wind...this just might be this year's bulldawg or twin ten the way I hear folks planning to do it! |
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Posts: 130
Location: Madison, WI | This is an example of the problem with the current regulations. Two intelligent, good looking people (Junkman and myself) interpreting this thing very differently.
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| Jigging a Bondy Bait is considered trolling but putting the trolling motor on one hundred while casting a double 10 down a shoreline isn't?
Trolling is trolling. Jigging is not trolling. Using the trolling motor to drag a Bondy Bait would be trolling. You don't drag when you jig. |
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Location: 31 | dcorfman If your line was NOT vertical, you would be trolling. Interesting question!
I'm not so sure about this because if you use a “vertical line” as the barometer for position fishing, the weight of the offering and the speed of the boat then become part of the equation. In other words, you could run your electric on a constant low setting with a weight attached to keep the line vertical. If you want to increase your boat speed, just add enough weight to compensate for the speed to keep your “line vertical”.
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| Thank God I don't live in Wisconsin, and there for I do not have to fish there. What a friggen headache. |
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Posts: 295
| Jig Rule - 3/12/2013 8:26 AM
Jigging a Bondy Bait is considered trolling but putting the trolling motor on one hundred while casting a double 10 down a shoreline isn't?
Trolling is trolling. Jigging is not trolling. Using the trolling motor to drag a Bondy Bait would be trolling. You don't drag when you jig.
I drag when I jig... And fish bleed when I set the hook doing it that way. Tight lined-Two handed fish brain thumping!
So then what you're saying is if you are moving your rod tip it's jigging but if you hold it still...... It's trolling? Maybe I'm the crazy one here. I guess what you're saying is that every time I've ever trolled I was actually jigging as I like to impart action while holding the rod. Likewise every time I've dragged a bait while jigging I was actually trolling.
Semantics shouldn't be argued by people with agendas. |
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| Mike Palmer - 3/13/2013 3:18 PM
Thank God I don't live in Wisconsin, and there for I do not have to fish there. What a friggen headache.
No, Thank God I live in Wisconsin...Sure you can musky fish fine in IL, MI and MN all summer, but what do you do in the fall not having an NFL team  |
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Posts: 238
| Here is the Wisconsin motor trolling as copy/pasted directly from page 19 of the 2012-13 fishing regs. This isn't open to interpretation at all, is it. Because of this new wording (first used during the 2012-13 season), I know a few die-hard falll sucker guys that have given up fishing with suckers because of this poorly worded motor trolling rule for fear of getting pinched.
Motor Trolling
“Motor trolling” is trailing a lure, bait, or similar device used to attract or catch fish
from a boat while being propelled (forwards or backwards) by a motor or a sail or while
being towed by a boat being propelled by a motor or sail. Motor trolling is illegal except
in some counties and waters as listed in the section titled Special Regulations—Listed
by County, beginning on page 23. Motor trolling is allowed for certain disabled anglers
and their able-bodied assistant(s) who have applied for and received special permits
with trolling privileges. Casting and immediate retrieval of a bait or lure while being
propelled (forwards or backwards) by a motor or a sail or while being towed by a boat
being propelled by a motor or sail is not motor trolling. NOTE: Trailing a bait or
lure from a boat that is being propelled by motor or sail at the same time casting
and immediately retrieving another bait or lure is considered motor trolling and
is not allowed.
“Backtrolling” is only legal in waters where motor trolling is allowed. “Position fishing” is fishing from a boat where the fishing line extends vertically into the water
while the boat is maneuvered (forwards or backwards) by a motor used to position or
maintain the position of the boat over underwater structure. Position fishing is allowed
statewide in all waters. |
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Posts: 295
| Someone with a little dough and a good lawyer needs to argue that one. |
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| Trolling acrossed the state? Pft we already have enough problems mounting in the northwoods. Seriously. |
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Posts: 1220
| OK, this is the last attempt I am going to make to offer an example...people are stuck in their positions and after this, I am out of this thread. Try to think of the "Anchor" button on the I-Pilot controlled Terrova. You know you are exactly over the crib you have been searching for, and you push the button. The motor then starts doing whatever it has to do to keep you there, the wind pushes you one way,the motor takes you back...backward, forward, in a circle but just trying to do what it has to to do keep you in that precise position. NOW: you don't have the I-Pilot (it's really nice) so you use your foot on the motor to do the same exact sort of thing: THAT'S HOLDING A POSITION. They don't mean two miles of breakline when they talk about a particular structure that your motor is meandering down while you laziily lift and lower your Bondy bait. That is what the dictionary of REALITY calls TROLLING! Or, for the real anglers: you go from bar to bar to bar looking for Mrs. Right--you are trolling! Stay on one bar stool, even if you are swaying just a tad...you are maintaining a "position." You won't see as many girls and that's why you decided to start your car and move to the next bar--just don't want to admit you're trolling. This is really pretty simple, whatever you are fishing for! |
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Location: Madison, WI | Junkman - 3/14/2013 8:10 PM
OK, this is the last attempt I am going to make to offer an example...people are stuck in their positions and after this, I am out of this thread. Try to think of the "Anchor" button on the I-Pilot controlled Terrova. You know you are exactly over the crib you have been searching for, and you push the button. The motor then starts doing whatever it has to do to keep you there, the wind pushes you one way,the motor takes you back...backward, forward, in a circle but just trying to do what it has to to do keep you in that precise position. NOW: you don't have the I-Pilot (it's really nice) so you use your foot on the motor to do the same exact sort of thing: THAT'S HOLDING A POSITION. They don't mean two miles of breakline when they talk about a particular structure that your motor is meandering down while you laziily lift and lower your Bondy bait. That is what the dictionary of REALITY calls TROLLING! Or, for the real anglers: you go from bar to bar to bar looking for Mrs. Right--you are trolling! Stay on one bar stool, even if you are swaying just a tad...you are maintaining a "position." You won't see as many girls and that's why you decided to start your car and move to the next bar--just don't want to admit you're trolling. This is really pretty simple, whatever you are fishing for!
"“Position fishing” is fishing from a boat where the fishing line extends vertically into the water while the boat is maneuvered (forwards or backwards) by a motor used to position or maintain the position of the boat over underwater structure."
The definition of position fishing does not say anything about limiting your possibilities to just holding a position. In fact, it says you can use a motor to position OR maintain a position. It clearly states you can do more than just maintain/hold a position. Else, they would not have included the "or".
"They don't mean two miles of breakline when they talk about a particular structure"
Unless you spoke to the people responsible for writing the regulation, you have no idea if this is really the case. When I read the position fishing regulation, it sounds like they were specifically trying to allow vertical jigging on waters that do not allow motor trolling. I cannot see how anybody could read it another way.
Edited by dcorfman 3/14/2013 9:46 PM
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| according the rule, using the trolling motor while your lure is in the water is considered trolling. |
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Posts: 566
Location: Elgin, IL | Guest - 3/15/2013 2:58 AM
according the rule, using the trolling motor while your lure is in the water is considered trolling.
Even if you are with a Guide? |
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Posts: 32922
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | The line has to be vertical. I you are holding on structure jigging, and not dragging the lure along behind the boat, you are position fishing. If the wind is moving your boat with no sail, and you are only using the electric to hold on a breakline and not propel the boat forward or backward for any distance, you are position fishing.
The law was written more for vertical jigging while holding on structure or on a controlled drift than soaking a sucker while casting.
The law is still as clear as mud.. |
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