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Muskie Fishing -> General Discussion -> Residency Requirements for Spring CC Vote on the WI Trolling Issue
 
Message Subject: Residency Requirements for Spring CC Vote on the WI Trolling Issue
Johnnie
Posted 3/8/2013 9:03 AM (#624183)
Subject: Residency Requirements for Spring CC Vote on the WI Trolling Issue





Posts: 285


Location: NE Wisconsin
You do not have to be a resident of said county to vote on rule changes. To vote in the delegate election for the county, you must be a resident of that county. But to vote on the rule changes you can be from anywhere including out of state. That being said anyone can go to Vilas or any county in WI to vote on the proposed trolling rule changes.

• If you are not a resident of the county, you will not be able to elect delegates nor will you
receive the delegate election ballots.
• Regardless of your residency, each attendee will be allowed to vote on the questions so you
should receive a questionnaire booklet, a pencil and two large ballots to record your votes on the
advisory questions and on any locally introduced resolutions.
Jerry Newman
Posted 3/8/2013 11:19 AM (#624231 - in reply to #624183)
Subject: RE: Residency Requirements for Spring CC Vote on the WI Trolling Issue




Location: 31

Excellent information Mr. Aschenbrenner! I've enjoyed reading your posts and will simply be following your lead now... along with some general information I've found that helps supports statewide trolling. 

I would add that a tremendous amount of thought, discussion, time and effort has been put forth by the WDNR's muskie team and others from the Bureau of fisheries management regarding this proposal. They have most certaily done their homework before making this proposal! The WDNR’s opinion is in favor of statewide trolling for many sound reasons, most importantly their position is that trolling will not harm the fishery. 

Although some may feel I am the enemy here, I feel I should be allowed to put forth my opinion without somebody like FSF stalking my posts like last week.  My strong opinion is that statewide trolling is almost a no-brainer, and it will eventually become a reality for the betterment of majority who fish in the great state of Wisconsin. Like it or not Sled, although I feel your resolve is understandable and sincere, I believe you are in the minority here and statewide trolling is an eventuality. 

Although the proposal is only at step 6 (public hearings) of the 10 step process now, if this is passed on April 8th, steps 7-8-9-10 would seem to be a foregone conclusion considering the governor himself asked the DNR to simplify fishing regulations. 

The last time this question was asked (as a general question only), it passed Statewide by a small margin, and even though it failed to pass in certain counties (included Vilas), it's not going to take much to push it across the goal line on April 8. 

Considering that only about 5000 people attend these meetings statewide, all that’s needed is approximately 3000+ supporting votes to get the ban lifted. For those who agree with the WDNR’s stance, and can make it to out to vote, great... also please try to help others get out and vote too.. 

Like Johnnie says; even if Vilas county votes against it again, it’s going to only be the overall vote that matters.



Edited by Jerry Newman 3/8/2013 11:22 AM
Matt DeVos
Posted 3/8/2013 11:29 AM (#624232 - in reply to #624183)
Subject: Re: Residency Requirements for Spring CC Vote on the WI Trolling Issue




Posts: 580


Thanks for continuing to beat this drum, Jerry.

I really hope this gets passed. As noted, the majority of voters statewide supported statewide trolling at our last spring hearings. Hopefully there is some momentum from that and a larger margin of those in favor get out and vote.
Wisconsin Wade
Posted 3/8/2013 11:39 AM (#624237 - in reply to #624231)
Subject: RE: Residency Requirements for Spring CC Vote on the WI Trolling Issue




Posts: 194


Location: Lincolnshire, IL
Unless I missed it...the problem with this proposal is that it only addresses angling. The on the water conflicts between anglers as stated in the justification is incorrect IMO. The conflicts will arise between pleasure boaters and anglers that are trolling planer boards 150' plus out to the side. Imagine a 300-500 acre lake with 3 boats trolling boards and 3 boats pulling skiiers.

Those that are opposed to this need to get on the horn to their friends that own Bayliners, MasterCrafts and the like and get them to the meetings because the fisherman are likely to be favoring trolling as I read it in the proposal.

Don't take a narrow minded fisherman only view of this...because as of now when I am pulling my kids on skiis or on the tube, I attempt to steer clear of those fishing near the shoreline etc....but add a few guys trolling down the middle of the lake and now my options become limited as to where the pleasure boating can take place.

Remember there are just as many "inconsiderate" trollers as there are "inconsiderate"
pleasure boaters.
Shep
Posted 3/8/2013 11:53 AM (#624242 - in reply to #624231)
Subject: RE: Residency Requirements for Spring CC Vote on the WI Trolling Issue





Posts: 5874


Jerry Newman - 3/8/2013 11:19 AM

Considering that only about 5000 people attend these meetings statewide, all that’s needed is approximately 3000+ supporting votes to get the ban lifted.

 

Not necessaruily. Remember the 54" Minimum on Green Bay passed at least 3 years overwhelmingly statewide. It's still at 50. 

Spring hearings and the Conservation Congress is a joke. But it's what we have, so all I can say is get out to vote, or stop complaining.



Edited by Shep 3/8/2013 11:54 AM
Kingfisher
Posted 3/8/2013 12:05 PM (#624250 - in reply to #624237)
Subject: RE: Residency Requirements for Spring CC Vote on the WI Trolling Issue




Posts: 1106


Location: Muskegon Michigan
Wisconsin Wade - 3/8/2013 12:39 PM

Unless I missed it...the problem with this proposal is that it only addresses angling. The on the water conflicts between anglers as stated in the justification is incorrect IMO. The conflicts will arise between pleasure boaters and anglers that are trolling planer boards 150' plus out to the side. Imagine a 300-500 acre lake with 3 boats trolling boards and 3 boats pulling skiiers.

Those that are opposed to this need to get on the horn to their friends that own Bayliners, MasterCrafts and the like and get them to the meetings because the fisherman are likely to be favoring trolling as I read it in the proposal.

Don't take a narrow minded fisherman only view of this...because as of now when I am pulling my kids on skiis or on the tube, I attempt to steer clear of those fishing near the shoreline etc....but add a few guys trolling down the middle of the lake and now my options become limited as to where the pleasure boating can take place.

Remember there are just as many "inconsiderate" trollers as there are "inconsiderate"
pleasure boaters.


I think that this statement needs to be addressed. It is statements like this that bury the truth. 150 feet out each side? Really? Even on ST Clair where we have 28 miles of lake NO ONE runs boards out 150 feet. My masts only have 80 feet which is just over half that. Then they angle back so the net is about 60 feet out each side. I dont know of a single set of large boards that would even handle 150 feet of line. I build and sell large planer boards to the top charterboats on Lake ST. CLAIR . I KNOW THE FACTS ON PLANER BOARD TROLLING.Facts people, talk facts. When we run 3 rods per side we send our boards out about 45 to 50 feet. So please for your own sakes don't exaggerate numbers to push a point.

I am surprised your state is allowing residents from outside the county to vote. I would not support that here in Michigan. If people want a different way of life in their county that is freedom people. I still say let Vilas be Vilas. I dont live there so It is none of my concern. But I have to address false arguments when I see them. 150 feet out each side. good grief. That would make 100 yards total from board to board. You would need 48 inch boards to hold with that much line out.

Vilas County could limit trolling to boat rods only or two rods per person or addin a clause that prohibits the use of planers. How difficult can this be? If you all just talk about facts you will see there really is not any big problem.

Mike

Edited by Kingfisher 3/8/2013 12:10 PM
Wisconsin Wade
Posted 3/8/2013 12:27 PM (#624257 - in reply to #624250)
Subject: RE: Residency Requirements for Spring CC Vote on the WI Trolling Issue




Posts: 194


Location: Lincolnshire, IL
Kingfisher - 3/8/2013 12:05 PM

Wisconsin Wade - 3/8/2013 12:39 PM

Unless I missed it...the problem with this proposal is that it only addresses angling. The on the water conflicts between anglers as stated in the justification is incorrect IMO. The conflicts will arise between pleasure boaters and anglers that are trolling planer boards 150' plus out to the side. Imagine a 300-500 acre lake with 3 boats trolling boards and 3 boats pulling skiiers.

Those that are opposed to this need to get on the horn to their friends that own Bayliners, MasterCrafts and the like and get them to the meetings because the fisherman are likely to be favoring trolling as I read it in the proposal.

Don't take a narrow minded fisherman only view of this...because as of now when I am pulling my kids on skiis or on the tube, I attempt to steer clear of those fishing near the shoreline etc....but add a few guys trolling down the middle of the lake and now my options become limited as to where the pleasure boating can take place.

Remember there are just as many "inconsiderate" trollers as there are "inconsiderate"
pleasure boaters.


I think that this statement needs to be addressed. It is statements like this that bury the truth. 150 feet out each side? Really? Even on ST Clair where we have 28 miles of lake NO ONE runs boards out 150 feet. My masts only have 80 feet which is just over half that. Then they angle back so the net is about 60 feet out each side. I dont know of a single set of large boards that would even handle 150 feet of line. I build and sell large planer boards to the top charterboats on Lake ST. CLAIR . I KNOW THE FACTS ON PLANER BOARD TROLLING.Facts people, talk facts. When we run 3 rods per side we send our boards out about 45 to 50 feet. So please for your own sakes don't exaggerate numbers to push a point.

I am surprised your state is allowing residents from outside the county to vote. I would not support that here in Michigan. If people want a different way of life in their county that is freedom people. I still say let Vilas be Vilas. I dont live there so It is none of my concern. But I have to address false arguments when I see them. 150 feet out each side. good grief. That would make 100 yards total from board to board. You would need 48 inch boards to hold with that much line out.

Vilas County could limit trolling to boat rods only or two rods per person or addin a clause that prohibits the use of planers. How difficult can this be? If you all just talk about facts you will see there really is not any big problem.

Mike


Easy there, no padding the numbers from my end to push a point, big boards vs. little boards...apples to oranges...I admit I rarely run them out more than 100' when calm...but have encountered others running off shore style boards out much farther...I will agree with the angled back point tho..so the net on 100' on each side would be...idk..80' per side?
And I can see it and I can hear it..."send that first board way out there to get those dang pleasure boaters away from us!"

Addressed?



Edited by Wisconsin Wade 3/8/2013 12:48 PM
Flambeauski
Posted 3/8/2013 12:39 PM (#624259 - in reply to #624231)
Subject: RE: Residency Requirements for Spring CC Vote on the WI Trolling Issue




Posts: 4343


Location: Smith Creek
Jerry Newman - 3/8/2013 11:19 AM

">Like Johnnie says; even if Vilas county votes against it again, it’s going to only be the overall vote that matters.



This is incorrect, but I see a great opportunity for Vilas to increase tourism.
Everybody come on up to Vilas for the vote! Stop into one of the many fine taverns while your there!

sworrall
Posted 3/8/2013 1:29 PM (#624271 - in reply to #624183)
Subject: Re: Residency Requirements for Spring CC Vote on the WI Trolling Issue





Posts: 32888


Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin
'Although some may feel I am the enemy here, I feel I should be allowed to put forth my opinion without somebody like FSF stalking my posts like last week.'

He was putting forth his opinion too.
Jerry Newman
Posted 3/8/2013 4:40 PM (#624331 - in reply to #624259)
Subject: RE: Residency Requirements for Spring CC Vote on the WI Trolling Issue




Location: 31
Flambeauski - 3/8/2013 12:39 PM
Jerry Newman - 3/8/2013 11:19 AM ">Like Johnnie says; even if Vilas county votes against it again, it’s going to only be the overall vote that matters.

 

This is incorrect, but I see a great opportunity for Vilas to increase tourism. Everybody come on up to Vilas for the vote! Stop into one of the many fine taverns while your there!

How so? It's my understanding that it's up to the general vote, even if it's voted down in Vilas, the overall state % is what matters. However, I would be more than happy to stop by one of the many fine Vilas county taverns after a long day of trolling next year.  

 

 

sworrall
Posted 3/8/2013 9:19 PM (#624396 - in reply to #624183)
Subject: Re: Residency Requirements for Spring CC Vote on the WI Trolling Issue





Posts: 32888


Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin
The counties where the proposed regs are going to effect are weighted accordingly. if the vote is stunningly against in Oneida and Vilas, the rest of the state may not be enough.
Bytor
Posted 3/8/2013 9:50 PM (#624400 - in reply to #624242)
Subject: RE: Residency Requirements for Spring CC Vote on the WI Trolling Issue





Location: The Yahara Chain
Shep - 3/8/2013 11:53 AM

Jerry Newman - 3/8/2013 11:19 AM

Considering that only about 5000 people attend these meetings statewide, all that’s needed is approximately 3000+ supporting votes to get the ban lifted.

 

Not necessaruily. Remember the 54" Minimum on Green Bay passed at least 3 years overwhelmingly statewide. It's still at 50. 

Spring hearings and the Conservation Congress is a joke. But it's what we have, so all I can say is get out to vote, or stop complaining.



While I agree the CC process is a joke, made an even bigger joke by Walker's changes to the process. If this passes the CC it will become law.

Shep, Green Bay never went to 54" because the local fisheries manager was against it. If it passes the CC and the WDNR and now the legislature (thank Walker for adding another step to an already convoluted process) approve of it, bingo...done deal.

The reason I think the CC is a joke is because they pretend the people decide these things but we don't.
Peter Stoltman
Posted 3/9/2013 8:26 AM (#624467 - in reply to #624400)
Subject: RE: Residency Requirements for Spring CC Vote on the WI Trolling Issue




Posts: 218


In reality I've never heard any DNR personnel imply that the Spring Hearings are anything more than that, a hearing. It is an opportunity for the public to voice their opinions, vote for Conservation Congress Delegates, and to propose resolutions. The fact that a large number of citizens assume that the vote is anything more than the DNR "taking the temperature" of public opinion just means that they don't understand the process. This is understandable since it is in fact a very crooked road from point A to point B. Wisconsin is the only state in the union that I know of that takes such a complicated route to regulate fish and game.
Jerry Newman
Posted 3/9/2013 9:27 AM (#624491 - in reply to #624467)
Subject: RE: Residency Requirements for Spring CC Vote on the WI Trolling Issue




Location: 31

Peter Stoltman - 3/9/2013 8:26 AM In reality I've never heard any DNR personnel imply that the Spring Hearings are anything more than that, a hearing. It is an opportunity for the public to voice their opinions, vote for Conservation Congress Delegates, and to propose resolutions. The fact that a large number of citizens assume that the vote is anything more than the DNR "taking the temperature" of public opinion just means that they don't understand the process. This is understandable since it is in fact a very crooked road from point A to point B. Wisconsin is the only state in the union that I know of that takes such a complicated route to regulate fish and game.

Thanks Pete...a pretty interesting way to take the “public's temperature”, and one would think if you're voting on something? Well, at least I understand the process better now.

Northern Wisconsin would be too far for me to drive even if it was a normal vote, but I should make it over the border with some friends on April 8th thanks to what Johnnie passed along. I would have never thought an out-of-state vote/voice would be allowed. 

With that said, after looking this over again, like Troy says everything is pointing to it passing if there’s enough support behind it. Here's a copy and paste of the 10 step process…  

1-Statement of Scope, approved by DNR Secretary and Governor
2-NRB meeting for approval of Statement of Scope
3-Preparation of proposed rule
4-Solicitation of information for economic impact analysis (this step only applies to permanent rules)
5-NRB meeting for hearing authorization
6-Public hearings on proposed rule (and economic impact analysis, if a permanent rule)
7-NRB meeting for adoption
8-Rule approved by Governor
9-Legislative review/hearings
10-Rule signed by DNR Secretary and published

jonnysled
Posted 3/9/2013 9:37 AM (#624496 - in reply to #624183)
Subject: Re: Residency Requirements for Spring CC Vote on the WI Trolling Issue





Posts: 13688


Location: minocqua, wi.
you buyin' the pizza Jerry?
Kingfisher
Posted 3/9/2013 10:07 AM (#624507 - in reply to #624257)
Subject: RE: Residency Requirements for Spring CC Vote on the WI Trolling Issue




Posts: 1106


Location: Muskegon Michigan
Wisconsin Wade - 3/8/2013 1:27 PM

Kingfisher - 3/8/2013 12:05 PM

Wisconsin Wade - 3/8/2013 12:39 PM

Unless I missed it...the problem with this proposal is that it only addresses angling. The on the water conflicts between anglers as stated in the justification is incorrect IMO. The conflicts will arise between pleasure boaters and anglers that are trolling planer boards 150' plus out to the side. Imagine a 300-500 acre lake with 3 boats trolling boards and 3 boats pulling skiiers.

Those that are opposed to this need to get on the horn to their friends that own Bayliners, MasterCrafts and the like and get them to the meetings because the fisherman are likely to be favoring trolling as I read it in the proposal.

Don't take a narrow minded fisherman only view of this...because as of now when I am pulling my kids on skiis or on the tube, I attempt to steer clear of those fishing near the shoreline etc....but add a few guys trolling down the middle of the lake and now my options become limited as to where the pleasure boating can take place.

Remember there are just as many "inconsiderate" trollers as there are "inconsiderate"
pleasure boaters.


I think that this statement needs to be addressed. It is statements like this that bury the truth. 150 feet out each side? Really? Even on ST Clair where we have 28 miles of lake NO ONE runs boards out 150 feet. My masts only have 80 feet which is just over half that. Then they angle back so the net is about 60 feet out each side. I dont know of a single set of large boards that would even handle 150 feet of line. I build and sell large planer boards to the top charterboats on Lake ST. CLAIR . I KNOW THE FACTS ON PLANER BOARD TROLLING.Facts people, talk facts. When we run 3 rods per side we send our boards out about 45 to 50 feet. So please for your own sakes don't exaggerate numbers to push a point.

I am surprised your state is allowing residents from outside the county to vote. I would not support that here in Michigan. If people want a different way of life in their county that is freedom people. I still say let Vilas be Vilas. I dont live there so It is none of my concern. But I have to address false arguments when I see them. 150 feet out each side. good grief. That would make 100 yards total from board to board. You would need 48 inch boards to hold with that much line out.

Vilas County could limit trolling to boat rods only or two rods per person or addin a clause that prohibits the use of planers. How difficult can this be? If you all just talk about facts you will see there really is not any big problem.

Mike


Easy there, no padding the numbers from my end to push a point, big boards vs. little boards...apples to oranges...I admit I rarely run them out more than 100' when calm...but have encountered others running off shore style boards out much farther...I will agree with the angled back point tho..so the net on 100' on each side would be...idk..80' per side?
And I can see it and I can hear it..."send that first board way out there to get those dang pleasure boaters away from us!"

Addressed?



Facts are all that matter when discussing law. In Michigan Pleasure boaters running on plane must stay a MINIMUM of 100 feet from any and all fishing boats casting or trolling. To pass within this zone is an offense and tickets are issued. Sailboats and other slow moving or stationary craft have the right of way. You must give them 100 feet. Two years ago on Lake St. Clair my friend Cooper Smith had a 40 foot Powerboat run over one his custom 34 inch planer boards. The boards were out 75 feet and angled back so the net was about 50. This boat came up behind him and even though he was waved off crossed so close that he rocked a 27 foot Sea Ray throwing tackle and people all over the boat. I have no sympathy for personal watercraft owners who DO NOT KNOW THE LAW and infringe on this 100 foot rule every day of every summer. In fact we have several lakes that got so bad we had to install no wake laws from daylight until 11 am and 5 pm till dark. This was done so fisherman would not be harassed . I have yet to see anyone harassing pleasure boaters by using planer boards. Remember this the 100 foot law is from the boat not the last board. I have dual masts and each one has 80 feet. I did this to keep my boards within my legal 100 feet. It is the responsibility of the pleasure boater to stay out of that 100 feet. That is law here, I don't know what the law states in Wisconsin but my guess is it is similar.
I addressed your 150 foot statement, No one I know runs their boards out near that far. Anything past 100 feet would be out of the protection of the law. Now we can talk about lead core if you like. Salmon trollers on Lake Michigan run lead core out 400 feet and scream any time someone crosses their wake even 200 feet behind them. The law is 100 feet. All trollers have to do is keep their lines inside of 100 feet and the law is on their side versus pleasure boaters. You will find that Marine divisions of your Sheriffs dept. issue far more tickets to pleasure boaters who break the 100 foot rule than to fisherman who just want their 100 foot space to fish in peace. Kids on personal watercraft are the biggest danger and concern on the water today. They break the 100 foot rule every day in my state. I have even had water skiers pass between me and a cast length from shore only to circle us glaring like we were at fault. Campau lake Near Grand Rapids. Under cover cops posing as Musky fishermen ticketed this guy repeatedly and he kept it up until a judge threatened to take his boat. The law will deal with it. Mike

Jerry Newman
Posted 3/9/2013 11:34 AM (#624543 - in reply to #624507)
Subject: RE: Residency Requirements for Spring CC Vote on the WI Trolling Issue




Location: 31

Sure thing Sled, but no extra cheese on my half J  

Regarding the 100’ foot rule… and not to make a federal case out of it. I do a fair amount of trolling and have never run more than about 90’ out on the outside board rods as Kingfisher stated. Even on big water, I can't remember ever running out much more 100’, even with 9 rods. 

Wade, I do agree that 3 boats water skiing with 3 boats trolling with boards on a 300-400 acre lake would be a little tight, but then again 6 boats water skiing on that same size lake would pretty much be the equivalent. 

Matt DeVos
Posted 3/9/2013 12:04 PM (#624551 - in reply to #624543)
Subject: RE: Residency Requirements for Spring CC Vote on the WI Trolling Issue




Posts: 580


Jerry Newman - 3/9/2013 11:34 AM
3 boats water skiing with 3 boats trolling with boards on a 300-400 acre lake would be a little tight, but then again 6 boats water skiing on that same size lake would pretty much be the equivalent. 



6 boats casting on a 300acre lake would be a bit crowded too...actually, it'd be better for the casters to have a couple boats trolling and out away from the shallow casting structure...

See...instead of creating additional user conflict, trolling will actually open up the small lakes for casting opportunities!
Kingfisher
Posted 3/9/2013 12:46 PM (#624559 - in reply to #624183)
Subject: Re: Residency Requirements for Spring CC Vote on the WI Trolling Issue




Posts: 1106


Location: Muskegon Michigan
The bottom line is ,all of you who are voting on this need to look at this in regards to how LAW ABIDING fishermen are going to use any changes not a few isolated Idiots. I troll planer boards on Murray lake which not huge but there is room until water skiers and tubers start running all over. Then I pull in my boards and move to a quiet bay to escape them. THAT is the reality of how most guys would approach trolling in Vilas county. If you have it to yourself? troll with everything. If it gets crouded? drop down to a couple down rods or change lakes. That 100 foot rule really is the core of any legal rights on either side. Fishermen, anchored boats, guys casting, all have the right of way to boats under power and especially boats on plane.
Travis Kopke makes the best case for not allowing trolling at all because of the loss of pristine lakes that are quiet and un disturbed. HOWEVER Travis, if you allow boats on plane and not trolling? You don't have case based on common sense or law. If you allow jet skis and not motor trolling it makes zero sense in regards to keeping lakes pristine.

Michigan has Big Island Wilderness area in the upper peninsula. Rules are, no wheeled carts to haul in your row boat with, carry only or drag it. No motors of any kind, no external battery operated devices of any kind. No Glass. Paddles and or Oars only. That is how you keep a lake pristine. I would not change those rules at all on that system. There are no houses on those lakes, no bathrooms, and no power anywhere. You carry it in you row or paddle and you live with it or you stay out. I am sure Vilas will figure out what they want and if they want to keep their laws the way they are more power to them. They have to live there. Row trolling is an art form I would not be happy to see come to an end. I want to fish someday with Tom Gelb HIS WAY. Mike
Beaver
Posted 3/9/2013 3:44 PM (#624607 - in reply to #624559)
Subject: Re: Residency Requirements for Spring CC Vote on the WI Trolling Issue





Posts: 4266


The truth is that we must share the water with people of varying interests. Like Mike said, if the skiers and tubers come out, don't stand up and yell your ass off and wave your arms, just pull in your boards and prop wash troll.
I have had the right to troll for years now, but a disabled person can only troll with an electric motor, and that's not a viable option.
I know several lakes that I would love to troll, simply because of the forrage base and the size and depth of the lake. I know that if it's approved and becomes reality, it will keep me on the water much longer. Physically speaking, I can only fish about 10% of the time that I used to put in 10 years ago. This would be a huge plus for me. Even though I live just 30 minutes from Pewaukee, I've only caught 2 muskies while trolling, so I have lots to learn. We have to watch out though, if we wind up being able to troll, the tribes will want the right to use dynamite.
Remember, people riding around in Bayliners don't have a clue what a planer board is, much less what it is used for and that it should be avoided.
Remember the "back-trolling" fiasco? I was on a 700 acre lake when a 32' cabin cruiser came 'back-trolling' down the middle of the lake with planer boards and a mast, outriggers and downriggers. Fresh off the big lake, he back-trolled for 3 days, never caught a fish and went home.
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