|
|
| It is no secret that BIG muskies can be found in many rivers across north america. Some impressive fish have been caught from huge rivers like the St. Lawrence to tiny backyard streams. I think the river environment is completely different than lakes. Obviously the fish relate to current in these environments, but what else is different in rivers that we should know about to catch muskies from moving water? There is no thermocline, no suspended baitfish, often times very little vegatation, etc. How does a lake fisherman convert to a river rat? |
|
| |
|
| Wow Jason, I don't have a lot of time right now but will have to straighten you out a litlle bit here about rivers.
First off " I think the river environment is completely different than lakes " Not true in most places as I have fished some 5 rivers and all of them closely resemble lakes in more factors then not.
Next " There is no thermocline, no suspended baitfish, often times very little vegatation, etc " sure there is no thermocline but there are lots of suspended baitfish, where do you think the baitfait are in rivers? Now all five of those river are loaded with vegetation, that is the #1 thing to fish in rivers over anything else weeds are it. Man parts of the Rideau River get dredged to clear the weeds so boats can get by it's so loaded with weeds.
Now the big difference between rivers and lakes is current but most everything else is the same.
Go out and get them.
[:sun:] |
|
| |
|
| Of course the current is the biggest factor between lakes/rivers,but the biggest(my opinion)factor along with the current is the actual water levels!Rizing/falling will dictate more where I will fish then any other factor.Example:rizing water increases flow and almost immeditatly fish relocate,weather/moon/time makes know difference,they MOVE!So for me knowing the levels of say 7or8 different rivers will determine where I fish in those areas.One other thing is that high water levels will NOT automaticly push all fish to the bank.BIG MISTAKE to stay in that train of thought! Jeff |
|
| |
|
| Trophy Muskie,
I have been fishing rivers the last 2 years. They are sooooo different. Both location and presentation.
It took me a lot of time to ajust to river fishing before I started to produce consistantly. An example might be lure placemant. Because of varying currents it may be harder to keep lures in the strike zones or it may be easier if you appply the correct techniques using current to your advantage. That is somthing that I am still battling this spring.
I hope that Jason Schillinger can post some locational differences. If he doesnt I am going to jump all over that one.
Now dont get me wrong its not like comparing peas and carrots but it is like comparing a granny smith apple to a golden delicious apple, my friend.
MUSKY ILLINI
"fried shrimp, shrimp sandwich, shrimp kabob, shrimp salad, barbecue shrimp, shrimp cocktail....." |
|
| |
|
| Seeing this is mostly the area we fish, not a river but a creek. We have not changed much from lake to creek fishing. We use the same lures we would throw if we where lake fishing. Topwaters and spinner baits seem to work well in the summer months and we do down size in the winter and spring and fish slower! We have used all of are lures in are tackle box with some success. Current this time of year is a little tricky, with the water being high and fast we have to change how we fish, how, we do not know yet. Still learning!
One thing that we have learned is to hit every spot being 1' to 9'!!! We have caught Muskie in less than 1' of water as well as the deeper pools, log jams, over hanging trees, etc etc. If there are Muskie in a creek or river they can be anywhere there is slow water shallow or deep.
CPR Matt and Judy
|
|
| |
|
| Richard, for the HUGE rivers that you fish, you are correct that they are similar to lakes. However, what I am referring to for river fishing are the smaller, shallower rivers like the Fox River in Illinois, the Chippewa, Flambeau, Jump, Black, and Wisconsin rivers found in Wisconsin and the "creeks" found in Ohio and Pennsylvannia like Punch and Judy refer too. Often times these rivers are only 20 to 30 yards wide, only a few feet deep, and have very strong current with an occasional deeper pool. The kind of river where if you want to float a boat.... you had better be prepared to drag over some rip rap. No fancy rigs here... mostly john boats and canoes. |
|
| |
|
| Well Jason your question should of been about small rivers in the states and not across North America. Most bays on the Ottawa and St-Lawrence rivers are bigger then most lakes in WI. I mean you can spend days fishing one bay without casting the same water twice. Naturaly the main channel of the river will have some decent current but the farther you go into bays the less current there is in there. Like some bays in the back of islands or points have no current and are 100% like a lake. You also have to look at depth as big rivers get very deep well most of the channel here is over 100 ft but there is some deep holes to 300 ft as well. Man we have weedbeds more then a mile long. No wonder our fish get so big huh.[:bigsmile:]
Now as for water levels, the big rivers are all controlled by damns and there are not big swings in the water levels unless we have 4 or 5 days of straight rain. You will see a lot more changes in water levels from reservoirs ( also known as lakes ) then big rivers. Now I am talking about summer pools here when the season is open and there can be a lot of fluctuations during the spring due to snow melt as well as fall due to a dry summer, but the water levels just go down a bit at a time.
Sorry about the confusion here Jason and others, our rivers get to be 5 miles across in some areas and hundread on miles long.
I just want to make sure that all don't think that they have to stay away from rivers due to their lack of experience as most fish just like lakes. I mean I take what I have learned here on my big river and go fish some lakes and do really well, for an example I have placed top 10 in every Can-Am I have fished in the tri lakes area of the Kawarthas man this year both me and my partner were top 10 in overall inches and big fish to bad it's not a team event. Now I fish there only one weekend a year so my river is not much different then a lake. [:sun:] |
|
| |
|
| The biggest mistake you can make fishing small rivers is not fishing shallow enough. No rocket science to it. Find the deepest water in the system, which is about 15-20 ft. where I fish, if the fish are active, hit the shallow spots upstream of the deeper holes, combine that with some rocks/weeds/timber, your golden. If the fish aren't on those spots, switch to a slower/deeper pattern, and that's pretty much all there is to it.
One thing I don't here people talk about is factoring wind into creek fishing, it makes a huge differance just like fishing a lake. |
|
| |
|
| I would like to say that I agree with the other posts,here are some of my personal observations from being a river rat. If the wind is blowing the direction of the current flow,the fish will generaly be active.Muskies follow forage up and down the river,not all, but I think the majority of fish move more in a river than a lake.Lures that work in lakes will work in a river with some exceptions because of the current.When fan casting it is best to get your casts close as possible together.River muskies do set up home ranges.I have noticed that these can be a "holding pen" for any muskie.Spots that have produced in the past will be good in the future if there is no major change in structure,eg; removal of logs,sand bars etc.Just some of my rambling thoughts.Good Luck,Paul |
|
| |
|
| hi everyone, i am new to this board and see that there seems to be good company. I think this research board is the best one so far, for me anyways, good work. This is in response to jlong's question about river muskies. I pretty much agree with what fishingfool said, first, I would say that the best way of getting to know a river of the size you specify is to buy yourself a good pair of chest waders and learn to handland big fish (: I used to fish a river of that size in Ontario for 4 years that I waded 75% of the time and quickly found out that a river has properties all of its own and those are often the missing piece in the puzzle. Strong current edges, eddies, sharp outside bends, dams, in short, anything that has to do with faster than lake current are all characteristics that you won't find too often on a lake. Those river fish are very opportunistic and are ambush masters much like trout and will use all of these advantages. This being said, baitfish of course has to factor in. In the river I fished, walleye movements pretty much dictated where the muskies were or close by anyways. Water levels will affect those movements the worst if it keeps going up and down and it gets harder to figure it out then, high waters are usually good especially in late fall if it triggers the walleye's false spawning runs, you can be sure muskies will be there in numbers... (: Finally, rivers is just like any other type of location, the more time on the water, a little homework and a lot of fun in perspective.
ChrisA |
|
| |
|
| There are many factors that influence fish location here on my stretch of the Wisconsin River. In the spring the fish really concentrate below the dams and spillways. As with any other predator the fish will take the easiest meal they can so they just point their noses upstream and splurge on the massive amounts of walleyes that are also concentrated in these areas. It is very common to catch these fish in less than two feet of water in these very rocky fast water areas of the river. A little later in the summer I find the fish spread out more and hang around the sharp drops of the main channel and also cruise the large lake like shallow (3-4ft.) flats north of Stevens Point. Lot's of weeds and islands for cover yet close to the main deep river channel where the walleyes and other baitfish are more concentrated.
The fall for some reason seems to be more difficult to locate the fish in this area. I tend to see the fish move back to shallow and rocky areas again. I think many people over look the rip-rap in the more developed areas.
I always ask the walleye guys where they are catching fish, it really narrows down where to start. Large muskies are consistently taken by walleye fisherman when there are catching large numbers of eye's with just a simple jig and fathead, let's you know that they love rubber on this system
(hint,hint) |
|
| |
|
| Hmmm, lots of great info exchanged in regard to river fishing. Richard touched upon a few things for the very large rivers with good water quality. Many chimed in on the small, shallow rivers/creeks that sprinkle across most of the United States.
Anyone out there experienced with the intermediate sized rivers? Those that are perpetually turbid (poor visibility), have no weed growth, are infested with junk fish (carp, sheephead, etc.), and have fairly deep river channels (30+ foot)?
When you couple poor water quality with non-traditional habitat, where do you start? There are some huge fish in these fertile waters, but not many people are even attempting to look for them. Heck, I know many of the Kentucky Boys have experience fishing dirty rivers in the spring of the year. Any tips??? What about the fall too? Do fish move back up river? Do fish in Cave Run move back up into the Licking River come cold water???
|
|
| |
|
| Good reading here guys!
I fish streams/rivers/lakes in Ohio. Muskies are muskie, but the conditions and how to catch them can vary greatly. Never been a fan of muddy water for catching muskie. Not saying it can't be done, but I like to use sight to my advantage.
Thanks to Mikie for introducing me to this fine site! |
|
| |
|
| As with any fishing, structure, is at the top of the list. In the river size your looking at, there is very little wood, because the spring ice out and heavy current clean the river. That leaves only rocks, weeds, current, and the bank. Oxygen is also a large factor. As mentioned above a hole below a rapids can hold more fish. These muskies will feed with thier backs out of the water in shallow rapids at times. I refer to these holes as a backyard. The longer the rapids, with a large backyard, the more and bigger fish you will find. Work the water flowing fast past an eddy at the end of this rapids. This is called the seam. On, all the other stretches, pound as close to the bank as you can. This is a natural hiding place where bass and baitfish use as a avenue of travel. Pockets of weeds will always have feeding fish. A surface bait or a burned bucktail above the weeds can work.[;)] |
|
| |
|
| Rivers are just too moody!
You can have the muskie day of a lifetime...then the next week you try again and blank.
I believe it all relates to forage movements in a system. Does not seem to matter in dark rivers if its sunny or cloudy, but if the food is not there....the fish are not there feeding. |
|
| |
|
| Lakes are the moody ones. Jet skiers,partyboats,recreaters up the ying yang. In the summer, learn the hatches and you will find big and little. With a dam at both ends there is no migrating! just minimal movements. For some reason, that I don't know, the muskie is the last fish to stay in the shallower current areas. They seem to consume all other fish that haven't found their perspective wintering hole. With lakes and rivers, I believe, this is one reason fall is best for both numbers and size. All waters turn on and off like a light switch from one day or one hour to the next. If we could figure out, how to keep that light burning, it would be catching not fishing. |
|
| |
|
| J, those medium sized dirty carp rivers are exactly what I target. One thing I've noticed about these, is that the fish are usually much shallower than one might think. Even in summer months when temps shoot into the 80's, I catch muskies on very large shallow flats(I fish these shallow flats as I do open water up north) in less than 3 feet of water quite often. These fish really put on the miles too, but seems they often come back as mentioned above. Slight water table/river height fluctuations move baitfish immediately, and the muskies are usually there to intercept. Cold fronts and high pressure affect my river fishing little, but it does affect musky location. Seems cold fronts actually produce some bigger fish in the rivers I fish and not quite sure why. Seasonal movements are noted, but many of the fish I see "up" river in the fall, are the same fish that I've seen in the river all summer so I'm not sure how far they move with season. It does seem that there is a definate bite for big fish during the usual fall rains in Oct. and that is often my peak in fall, then gets slower after that. After the "action" subsides, I start plucking away at confined holes with big baits, and that is how I've been able to catch my biggest fish for the past 2 years. |
|
| |
|
| I have fished one particular river system for 13 years.One thing that really sticks out on river sytems that differs from lakes to me is cold fronts.When massive cold fronts have come through I have had mutiple fish days reguraly,fishing shallow sometimes right in the slop with buzzbaits buring jigs leting them fall off the weedy edge,hope this helps.0723 |
|
| |
