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Location: Green Bay, WI | I am interested in learning TIG welding, to weld aluminum (and stainless). I'll bet there is someone on this forum that has welded on an aluminum hull before, and can provide some information. I don't have a boat at the moment, but would like to hear anyone's experience(s) on welding aluminum hulls with a TIG welder or torch.
Thanks in advance.
TB |
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Posts: 208
Location: Sun Prairie, WI | I welded an old aluminum boat. Put a patch in where the drain plug was. Welded fine with a tig torch. I weld for a living.
I used a Miller syncowave 250 with a water cooled torch. .125 pure tungsten but a 3/32 would have probly been better. I used 4043 filler wire.
If you need help let me know.
Edited by jjmuskie 11/22/2012 10:49 AM
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Location: Green Bay, WI | Yea, I would love to talk to you about the topic in general sometime. Mainly I am interested in the experience you had with various alloys and such. I've heard that Miller makes very nice products, but at a premium for cost. I know Lincoln is a good name as well, and I've even seen an Everlast machine reviewed pretty well.
Seems like a lot of options out there these days for the "hobbyist" welder: New inverter units, simplified control parameters, combination units, etc. And the prices have come down considerably as I understand it.
Thanks for the post.
TB |
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Posts: 74
Location: Brainerd, MN 56401 | I have welded several boat/pontoons. I work at an awning and upholstery shop, and up until recently we used a Miller Diversion 165, air cooled "hobbyist" machine. It worked very well for aluminum up to 1/8" thick and only costs about 1200 bucks. We recently upgraded to a Miller Dynasty 200dx and all I can say is WOW! The machine is absolutely AMAZING!! It features adjustable wave form and frequency, which makes it a very easy machine for a beginner to learn on. TIG welding can be learned in a day, but can take a lifetime to master. If you have any questions I'd be happy to help.
J.R. |
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Location: Green Bay, WI | OK, cool...thanks. So it's sounds then like I couldn't go wrong with the Diversion 180 either, especially if I wanted to weld something as thick as 3/16".
I have done a little bit of TIG welding in the past--but I have done quite a bit of oxy-acetylene welding. In fact, I've build several aircraft control surfaces and an entire fuselage from 4130 tubing, using gas welding techniques. The TIG stuff didn't seem to be hard to pick up, and I was able to get some nice looking beads in relatively little time. However like you said, it can take years and years to perfect--like anything.
But there are a number of projects I'd like to be able to do in a home shop, including the ability to repair aluminum boat hulls. Therefore I appreciate the input from you experienced guys.
Thanks again.
TB |
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Posts: 1207
Location: Pigeon Forge TN. | Have welded for over 50 years, Have been certified with stick, mig, tig, and subarc from structural steel to high pressure vessels and did all xray and ultrasonic welding.
Steel, high carbon steel, stainless, aluminum.
Equipment is expensive depending on brand and size. |
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Location: Green Bay, WI | Very cool Stan. I'd love to talk to any of you guys sometime, just to get a feeling for what I will need in terms of equipment. I've been researching this for a couple weeks now, and have learned enough to know that I need to be exposed to an environment where I can practice with someone more knowledgeable around. So I signed up for an "advanced welding" course at the local technical college next semester. Basically, it's just a semester-long course made up of 3-4 weeks each of oxy-acetylene, stick, MIG and TIG welding. But at least I'll be able to get exposure to the stuff I've not done much of, in a professional learning environment. It's pretty inexpensive too when you think of it, especially when it can save you from making an ill-advised purchase that you then have to try to sell when you figure out what you *really* should have gotten in the first place...
When you guys welded on the boat hulls or marine aluminum applications, what alloy(s) were you typically using? I am well aware that there are certain alloys that should NOT be welded, but I am not entirely certain what alloys are used for boat hulls. I know I've seen 5052 mentioned as an alloy used in boat hulls, and we used to use 6063 alloy for aircraft fuel tanks. But I've never welded either of those at all. I have seen a couple YouTube videos where a guy welds some aluminum cowling material with a gas torch, and then works it. The guy is incredible--a true artist. But I don't have 30 years to perfect that technique, so I think I'll just go the TIG route...lol.
TB |
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Posts: 1638
Location: Minnesota | ive welded for 30 years i fixed the side of my dads boat abought 10 years ago.i had him using a spray bottle with watter spraying the other side to keep it cool and from worping.the bigest thing is make shure the surface your welding on is clean.if you have never done any welding look into taking some classes it could help. |
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Posts: 403
Location: Lakeville, MN | Im game for helping out too. Ive been welding for a while now.
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| The higher the number on the rod = harder and more brittle alum. So 4043 would be softer but more flexible than 6063. Also aircooled units are fine if you don't have alot of welding to do. Otherwise the hose can melt and the tourch will get very hot. If you plan on alot or heavy welding I'd go with a liquid cooled gun.
Dan Crooms ch54 |
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| Yes 5052 would be used in boat hulls becouse it's very hard to form 6063 without it cracking. So I would recomend 4043 filler. |
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Location: Green Bay, WI | We used 2024-T3 all the time in aviation, because it was pretty hard. And of course 1100 is pure aluminum and thus very soft. But my understanding was that it was the heat treating that makes aluminum hard--along with the alloy.
That's a good point about the cooling of the torch though Dan, and certainly something to consider. The new Miller "Diversion" line units do not have torches that are easily changed, so you get what you get I suppose. Not to say that they *can't* be changed--but not quickly. But then you look at some of their higher models, and those have regular connections. There is a brand called Everlast that are basically made overseas, but have been getting some pretty good reviews all-in-all. They are priced very attractively as well, and also have torches that are quite easy to swap out.
I guess I am looking for something that will handle up to about 180-200 amps (for aluminum up to about 3/16"). I'd like to be able to weld hulls and aluminum props if needed, as well as various stainless parts up to 3/16" or so. So that's why I was looking at the Miller Diversion line, but the non-swappable torch thing sort of turns me off a bit...and of course there are quite a bit more money than the Everlast units.
Thanks for the posts guys.
TB
EDIT: Just found another video on YouTube that discusses changing the torch on a Miller Diversion. It isn't "quick" but it certainly doesn't look hard. So a guy could just get himself a nice (smaller) torch kit from Weldcraft and install it once...and then forget it. Looks like the whole project would take all of about 15-20 minutes.
What size torch would you guys recommend for doing stuff like welding a boat hull?
Edited by tcbetka 11/22/2012 8:29 PM
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Posts: 1207
Location: Pigeon Forge TN. | I think the 5052 is used in boat hulls also. and I agree with the 4043 to some extent if you can't find 5052 rod. If I remember correctly we used 3034 and up on truck bodies. For good strong weldment you should match the rod with the job. 5052 hull with 5052 rod. Importantly, make sure the parts you are going to weld are clean and free from oil. The schooling will help you a lot. My favorite machines are Lincoln and Miller. I am sure everyone has their own opinion on that also. |
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| On 5052 you can go to say 4043 or down or use the same (5052) but do not go up like 6063. It will crack if you do. As far as welder brands I've used Lincons and millers both are good welders, if it were me I'd stick to these brands though as finding parts for these is much easier. |
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| I'd go with a medium torch, it will handle the heat better but you could sill get it into tight places and won't be too cumbersome to hold. Also I'd go with the straight cups as tapered ones tend to just break off with the heat it takes to weld alum. |
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Location: Green Bay, WI | Cool, thanks for the tips Dan. Would you recommend a water-cooled torch for everything, or only when welding thicker material? I guess what I am asking is whether it make more sense to just find a water-cooled torch a guy likes, install it, and then just use it for everything with different cups. Would seem to minimize the time it takes to change the torch anyway!
I appreciate the insight. This whole business of welding aluminum hulls intrigues me, lol. I have a couple more ideas as well, but it's a good place for a start.
TB |
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| Well with Stainless air cooled is fine, Alum. just depends on how much your welding. Alum soaks up alot of heat so if your welding heavy stuff say1/4 or above I'd say yes. Also if you have a long weld to make the I'd say yes too unless you stop for awhile. Also the gas you use can make a difference too. Helium welds much hotter than Argon but Argon gives you a much better looking weld. So I guess if it were me again I'd look at the type of welding I was doing and how much I'd be doing at once to choose a welder. |
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Location: Green Bay, WI | Well, I don't plan to weld any hulls thicker than 3/16" as far as I know. Most of the TIG units I am looking at only power up to about 165-180 amps output--maybe 200 (for the Everlast unit). Those output amps wouldn't seem to be enough to effectively weld 1/4" aluminum plate on a regular basis. I am sure you could get by for some things, but I just don't plan to be doing anything that heavy. In fact, most of the hulls I've seen are in the 1/8 - 3/16" range.
One thing about those Miller Diversion units though--you cannot change AC frequency at all. From what I've found, they seem to be factory-set at around 100-120 Hz, and that's where they stay. I haven't looked at the Lincoln welders much, but the Everlast units go all the way up about 250 Hz or so.
TB |
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Posts: 260
Location: Almost Heaven | My son is a fitter/welder and had welding certs at nuclear plant when he was just age 25. He is good and has a knack for welding. He also is a machinest/custom rifle builder and teaches union apprentices part time. Now since i am bragging on his ability here is the point. He has told me he gets real nervous when he goes on some jobs and has to test for a certain weld. Why?? You have to weld often using different machines and equipment to stay sharp and make those clean welds for xray. So therefore practice practice practice and reading and talking about welding takes a back seat to on the job training. All of the comments about aluminum and types of machines are good info. I have heard most of them from discussion with my boy. You guys on here know what it is all about. Man i'm proud of my son!! |
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Posts: 16
| I worked for seanymph, smokercraft/starcraft,polarcraft,lowe.Welding w mig and tig all our boats were welded w 4042 when we went to 5052 it cracked alot .we also used alot of 3032 its soft and flexible.red tungsten w %80 argon with mig 100 % with tig I personaly like 1/4 tunsten w a sharpened point but like someone said before it has to be cleaned.I had to fix a pontoon one time someone tried to jb weld ,lets just say had to recut the tube and put new cap in .good luck welding is fun if its not for a living .I ve been doing it for 21 yrs and it kinda found me !good luck. |
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Posts: 208
Location: Sun Prairie, WI | I prefer to use the watercooled torches. You dont have to but they are smaller and easier to get into tight places. We now have flex heads at work that allow you to bend the torch to get into tight places alot easier. I do alot of mig welding on alumn. Mainly 5052 and 6061 and we always use 4047 wire. I love the new dynasty welders. I used one to weld .080 alumn and its just down right amazing. The ability to adjust the frequency just makes it that much better. you can really focus the arc. |
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Location: Green Bay, WI | I kind of thought that it would be a good deal to be able to adjust AC frequency for aluminum work. I have done a bit of TIG welding on a couple of occasions, but someone just handed me the torch and said "have at it." I never got to really set anything up myself. Also, I love the information on the hull alloys guys--very helpful stuff. I will start to research what some of the boat builders are using.
These Everlast units look like an incredible bang for the buck. Their features seem outstanding, and the guys who have *really* used and reviewed them either on YouTube or some of the welding forums, have very good things to say about them. There were some issues in that past, but the company reportedly has excellent tech support, and the units have a 5-year warranty. And of course the prices are extremely competitive with Big Red and Old Blue.
Thanks for all the input on welding aluminum hulls you guys. Great information, and I'm learning. Anyone know what the Tracker Tundra hulls use in terms of alloy?
TB |
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Posts: 403
Location: Lakeville, MN | just be careful buying a machine.. ive read a lot of unhappy customers with everlast machines on weldingweb but that goes with any machine really. i am fortunate enough to have scored a dynasty 350 and i love it.. with the dynasty 280 coming out soon im hoping the price of used dynasty 200's drop some as i need another machine soon to keep up with my work. if your ever in the twin cities you should swing over and try it out.
Edited by genesisperformance 11/26/2012 3:40 PM
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