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Location: Contrarian Island | are you guys thumbing the spool? no disrespect but I can have the breaks out of my reels and the spool tensioner as loose as it will go and not get backlashes...my thumb never leaves the spool/line and I even switch hands mid cast...to me the problem sounds like maybe you are cranking the spool tensioner down too much and not relying on your thumb to "feel" when you are about to get a backlash... ?
I rarely get a backlash and can't quite understand how guys can get so many...I believe there is a well known Canadian guide who spends more hours on the water than just about all of us who has yet to break his Revo this season...if he can't, then how can the rest of us ?
so far the little use I've had on mine I think it will hold up well....(knock on wood)
Edited by MSKY HNR 8/20/2009 9:45 PM
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Posts: 64
| I would think most of us are thumbing the spools, i know i am. I have never had this problem with any other reel than this 1. When i adjust it I usually only take out the side to side play. Obviously if we were just cranking down the cast control knobs they wouldn't cast for s#!T. Its odd that the bushing in the cast control knob shows absolutely no wear at all, but the other side is terrible. I'm happy for anyone not having problems but some of us our frustrated since we spent $279.00 and are having issues so soon. I know no reel is indestructible but I would like to get at least a season before issues like this. I work on alot of reels for lots of people and honestly the majority of them are Abu's. I can't tell you how many Record's wont engage after minimal use. All we are trying to do here is narrow down the problem so maybe they can get it right. |
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Location: Oswego, IL | Lundbob - 8/20/2009 9:26 PM
Guest - 8/20/2009 7:24 PM
nothing wrong with the reel...it wasnt meant to be used in this manner. It's those who hyped it as a muskie reel that are at fault.
Yes it is meant to be used in this manner. Their own website says as much.
"The seven High Performance Corrosion Resistant (HPCR® ) bearings and Duragear™ brass gears add to the reel’s durability and long life. With 22-pounds of maximum drag, our famous Carbon Matrix™ Drag System is double the strength of similar competitor models. This is particularly important with the hook set on a lake trout, turning a tough snook or bull red, or from keeping a monster muskie from entering a brush pile."
Hooking up and fighting fish is all I am reading here. Its the BIG F'N LURES damaging these reels IMO. I dont see any of them saying "THIS REEL CAN BURN AND PULL YOUR HUGE LURES ALL DAY LONG, EVEN THROW A CAR TIRE OUT AND SEE HOW FAST AND EASY IT IS TO REEL IN!" Not ever going to happen. Think all the hours you put in pulling 10's and such all day long, your basically fighting a fish(the pull) all day. Not to mention some cases it is all user error wither you like it or not. Also someone mentioned loosing the star after use, very smart otherwise you will warp the washers or have them freeze together. Bottom line, nobody is every happy with anything. To much hype, to little testing. There is no way for them to test these reels to and how all of us fish, and with every lure made. I expect thats why they DO have warrantee's. I would also think they wouldnt want to sell knowing its crap and just have to keep fixing them, that also cost money. |
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Posts: 676
Location: Wisconsin | My thoughts as well is this is the wrong reel for the application. If you have to crank down on the spool tension to get the proper spool speed with lure, it isn't the right reel. Throwing big lures needs a reel that can handle it and built for it. IMHO the Abu Toro seems light for dbl 10's and dawgs. I have a Saltist for large lures and the C3 C4's for lighter lures. |
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Posts: 264
| MSKY HNR - 8/20/2009 9:44 PM
are you guys thumbing the spool? no disrespect but I can have the breaks out of my reels and the spool tensioner as loose as it will go and not get backlashes...my thumb never leaves the spool/line and I even switch hands mid cast...to me the problem sounds like maybe you are cranking the spool tensioner down too much and not relying on your thumb to "feel" when you are about to get a backlash... ?
I rarely get a backlash and can't quite understand how guys can get so many...I believe there is a well known Canadian guide who spends more hours on the water than just about all of us who has yet to break his Revo this season...if he can't, then how can the rest of us ?
so far the little use I've had on mine I think it will hold up well....(knock on wood)
no i am not thumbing my spool on my toro. i recently received my toro all fixed from abu garcia. |
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Location: Latitude 41.3016 Longitude 88.6160 | I see from the pics on page one that muskybug has only 3 of the 6 brakes on. I know that most guys don't even know how to adjust the spool brakes so you crank down the cast control on the outside of the reel so tight and cast pounders all day long and the fiber washer that is inside 99% of all reels wears out because you can't open up the reel, lazy lazy or don't know how to open up the reel and pull open all 6 spool brakes on ??? give me a break. |
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Posts: 64
| Hilarious! I only burn 8's with this reel and if i need 6 brakes on for that then something is wrong. I adjust breaks, and cast control as needed and honestly, I have 0 breaks on in all my Shimano's and don't have issues at all. All i was trying to do with the pic's on page one is help others identify the problem as well. I think it's become obvious that it's not just me having problems with the Toro's. Best of luck with your Toro's Pikemaster  |
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Posts: 1727
Location: Mt. Zion, IL | Friction brakes are to slow the bait down at the beginning of the cast. Centrifugal brakes are to slow the spool in the middle and at the end of the cast. It is not a matter of "needing" all 6 breaks out, but the fact that you backlash less, ease the rest of the reel, line, rod, hands, everything. Pull out all 6 brakes and you will be pleasantly surprised. |
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Location: Latitude 41.3016 Longitude 88.6160 | If U want to shape a piece of brass the same size that the fiber washer and replace or put in front of the fiber washer and that will solve your problem that you are having with this reel. I have never had a fiber washer go bad, but I use 4-6 spool brakes all the time and my cast control is very light. |
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Posts: 2018
| Ive abused my Toro 60 for 5 months throwing dawgs and 10's mostly - 20+ fish (on this one reel) - still as smoooth as the day I bought it - I'm going to buy 3 more!!! Abu has a winner with this reel!!! |
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Location: Oswego, IL | Dont get me wrong I love my toro's as well. I was simply saying there will be issue with all reels period. Some of which are user error, and some just give. I will continue to buy them, and look forward to the lower gear one in my arsenal as well. I have no issues with mine at this point, and if something does happen, warrantee it. No big deal in my book. Oh also, I didnt open mine up and change anything inside.....yet. I am going to try to pull the brakes now that I have read all this, just to see. Props to the Toro |
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Posts: 443
Location: Duluth, MN | Just wanted to bring this topic back up. I decided to take my reel apart and see whats going on. I used the following website as a guide.
http://www.ultimatekayakfishing.com/forums/Service-Abu-Revo-Toro-60...
I found the same exact thing that Muskybug found and posted pictures of back on the first page of this thread. Part 92 the brown colored bushing is worn out. Mine looks just like his. If you look at the following picture on the noted site.
http://www.ultimatekayakfishing.com/forums/post-a786-
You will see the bushing in a brand new reel. It seems to be just some carbon fiber piece for the spool shaft to rub on. When it wears down the shaft moves over with it and starts to rub on the race. I believe the reason this happens so fast when using the reel on muskie lures is we have to tighten the anti-backlash down pretty tight to prevent birdnests. That increases the pressure being put on that brown bushing and it wears out very fast. I used my reel maybe 8 times last year and put it away as it started making noise.
I am going to take apart one of my St. Croix AC300's and see what they use as i've used mine for 3 years and have not had this issue. The Toro is not a bad reel...the design is almost exactly the same as the AC300. If this part was upgraded i'm sure the reel would be fine. I am going to call Garcia tomorrow and see if they have upgraded this part.
Muskybug on a side note i could not get my bushing to come out so i could at least flip it over. Is there a trick to it? |
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Location: Latitude 41.3016 Longitude 88.6160 | LundBob I'm not trying to come off like a smart a-- but the spool tension knob should not be tight, the spool tension is for braking at the end of the cast, so if are birdnesting at the start or in the middle of a cast you don't have the spool brakes set right. When you go from a 1oz bait to a 8oz bait you must take a minute and pull out or in one of the six spool brakes that are on the spool inside the reel. The spool tension knob on all my reels are very loose. So by cranking down on the spool tension knob you have worn out the fiber washer that alot of reels use. If you must keep the spool tension knob tight get the small brass square washer that the ABU 5000-6000 reels use under the spool tension cap and add it to the front of the fiber washer. Here are a couple pics of what I'm talking about. U can PM or email me like alot of guys from this site do for any??? about this reel or any other reel U have a ??? on.
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Posts: 443
Location: Duluth, MN | OK...fair enough...so if i switch to a heavier bait what position should the brakes be in?
And i'm also not trying to be a smartass but i'd like a show of hands how many people when switching from a 1.5oz spinnerbait to a 4oz cowgirl open the side of their reels and adjust their brakes? I've never done it once on my AC300's and they have all lasted multiple seasons with no issues. |
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| I never adjust my brakes, they are always off. Just educate your thumb and adjust your casts to the bait. It's not impossible with the Toro, I did it all summer long casting anything from Cowgirls into the wind to Tyrants with the wind. You might want to try pairing the Toro with another rod if you are having all of those problems with backlashes. Mine sits on a 8' H Compre and it works fine. |
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Posts: 82
Location: Minneapolis,Mn | I have never done it, but makes quite a bit of sense. It does sound like people should re-educate there thumbs and quit cranking the star drag down as tight as she'll go. " no reel is unbreakable". |
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Posts: 443
Location: Duluth, MN | Just spoke to Garcia customer service. They are sending me a couple of the washers in question to replace at no charge. The person i talked to was not somoene that services the reel just a call taker. I'd probably have better luck calling one of the warranty repair shops that may have seen this issue come up. |
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Posts: 443
Location: Duluth, MN | So i took apart my AC300 and this is why nobody has had any problem with it.
As you can see they use a ball bearing instead of a fiber washer. But to make this reel work i will replace the washer and adjust the brakes and loosen the tensioner and see how it holds up. But it is disappointing on a $279 retail priced reel that Garcia chose to use a part that will fail...it's just a fact. I shouldn't have to put a $2.00 part from a 6500 into this reel.
Edited by Lundbob 1/8/2010 6:37 AM
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Location: Latitude 41.3016 Longitude 88.6160 | Your AC300 is a good reel but don't use it for jerk baits, that reel has no back up pawl for the anti-rev bearing. Here is how I set up a reel to cast , First turn the spool brakes all 6 of them off { push down on them } Second recalibate the cast control knob so the weight of the bait is enough to get the spool moving without any interference from you. Make a cast, don't snap your wrist/hand or arm, just one smooth motion. If you overrun, LOOSEN your cast control knob by one setting and try it again, continue until the overruns stop. What most guys do when they get a overrun, is to increase pressure on the cast control knob, the opposite actually improves casting by allowing a free spool. As the spool begins to slow is when a backlash begins, now you open up your reel and pull out as many brakes is needed to stop the backlashes. So Lundbob you forced down your cast controll knob so tight that you wore out the fiber washer and made your reel backlash even more. I said you can install a brass washer in your reel, this will help your reel not to overun as bad as with the fiber washer if or when you over tighten down the cast control knob. I have 4 Toro's reels that I have used from Aug of last year till now and I have and a lot of others have had no fiber washer go bad. If you reel is under a year old send it back to ABU and they will fix it for you at N/C, and when you get it back try not to over tighted the cast control knob.
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Posts: 443
Location: Duluth, MN | I already got my replacement washer and installed it. Reel is back to normal.
People get backlashes at the beginning of their casts from casting too hard. With my AC300's last year i got MAYBE 5 backlashes all year, probably from casting too hard into the wind. Do i tighten down my tension adjustment yes. But not to prevent backlashes at the end of a cast...i thumb the spool to prevent that. I adjust the tension based on the weight of the lure i am using. Put the bait on let it drop to the water...the spool should stop spinning when the bait hits the water...then make small adjustments from there till you get maximum casting distance...and yes you need to use your thumb as needed to prevent backlashes. I'm guessing most people here would say that is how they were taught to adjust their reels. What your describing is completely opposite of that and probably the correct way to do it. But i have never seen a musky guy just toss out a lure with a nice easy smooth motion...they whip them out as hard as possible to get maximum distance  But you know way more than i do about proper usage of all the mechanics of a reel. I'm just doing what i was taught, and my AC300's have held up for 4 years without any problems doing it this way. |
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| I have a brand new revo toro 60 winch and it is making a "kocking" type noise. It will knock/click about fives time per handle turn. I notice it only when retrieving hard pulling lures (bucktails, cranks), it doesn't make the noise with topwater or just reeling with no lure. The noise will go away if I tighten the cast knob pretty tight but like others I prefer to leave it loose and use my thumb. Anyone know why the reel is making this noise? |
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Posts: 339
Location: Denmark | Typically errors due to the low precision engineering and lack of quality checks, as we see it in many of Asian production facilities.
I work in an engineering company myself, that produces 90% of the worlds marine 2 stroke engines. All trough and we have 100 years of license experience, we still struggles with licensee products produced in China and less often Korea.
In my opinion The Toros hasn't proved them selves yet as being worth it's money. |
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Posts: 339
Location: Denmark | Typically errors due to the low precision engineering and lack of quality checks, as we see it in many Asian production facilities.
I work in an engineering company myself, we produces 90% of the worlds marine 2 stroke engines. All trough and we have 100 years of license experience, we still struggles with licensee products produced in China and less often Korea.
In my opinion The Toros hasn't proved them selves yet as being worth it's money. |
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Location: Latitude 41.3016 Longitude 88.6160 | Killerbug - 8/5/2010 7:08 AM
Typically errors due to the low precision engineering and lack of quality checks, as we see it in many Asian production facilities.
I work in an engineering company myself, we produces 90% of the worlds marine 2 stroke engines. All trough and we have 100 years of license experience, we still struggles with licensee products produced in China and less often Korea.
In my opinion The Toros hasn't proved them selves yet as being worth it's money.
So how did you come to your opinion ??????????
Do you own a Toro ?????
Have you taken one apart ?????
Edited by PIKEMASTER 8/5/2010 3:19 PM
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Posts: 339
Location: Denmark | PIKEMASTER - 8/5/2010 7:33 AM
Killerbug - 8/5/2010 7:08 AM
Typically errors due to the low precision engineering and lack of quality checks, as we see it in many Asian production facilities.
I work in an engineering company myself, we produces 90% of the worlds marine 2 stroke engines. All trough and we have 100 years of license experience, we still struggles with licensee products produced in China and less often Korea.
In my opinion The Toros hasn't proved them selves yet as being worth it's money.
So how did you come to your opion ??????????
Do you own a Toro ?????
Have you taken one apart ?????
Simply by comparing some of my old Swedish reels, that I have had since the 70's(and still use) with the C..... plastic stuff that I have repared so often for my friends.
No, and after reading this tread I won't for sure!
Yes it's popular over here as well, and I repair and tune sometimes reels for my friends, and to be ohnest, fishing reels are pretty simple mechanics, at least for any Technicien by trade. But to be fair, none of my friends have had other problems with the Toro than not knowing how to lube it properly.
But if you are happy with the Revo Toro fine for me, I just don't think they are worth the money. But great if ABU Garcia sells a lot of then, that might help profit
to save the last production of Swedish made reels.
I don't want to downgrade Asian craftsmanship, those woman and Children working on the assembly lines in Asia are doing exactly what they are payed for, and a lot more compared to a European worker, but again you get what you pay for ;). Actually I owe some Chinese made multipliers that cost me 30$, they work fine for a year of two, fair enough, I am happy. But if I pay 250 $ for a Toro, just to have basic problems like a spool not centered properly or some s.... like that a month later, then I feel like a fool.
Edited by Killerbug 8/5/2010 12:19 PM
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Posts: 339
Location: Denmark | IAJustin - 8/22/2009 5:07 PM
Ive abused my Toro 60 for 5 months throwing dawgs and 10's mostly - 20+ fish (on this one reel) - still as smoooth as the day I bought it - I'm going to buy 3 more!!! Abu has a winner with this reel!!!
I would say ABU is the big winner here |
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