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Posts: 10
| Ok, I have gone back and reread the posts on fuel for the boats. Embarrassed to say I am still confused on what fuel to be using. I just bought a Ranger with a 96 mercury 175 efi. Should I be burning regular or premium fuel in this engine. At the start of the year I was running premium and the last 2 tanks have been regular. I noticed on my last trip out that I have a hesitation on hole shot. Once the rpms come up she takes off great and runs smooth. I did put Sea Foam on this tank full. Any advise |
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Posts: 133
| Premium ONLY! Small engines and outboards can handle the regular gas for awhile but then can cause major damage in the long run. It's hard to watch the bill ring up at the pump, but it sure beats the huge bill at the marina for repairs later.
Edited by rich 5/28/2010 7:25 PM
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Posts: 968
Location: N.FIB | not sure where you are from but some gas stations might not have ethonal in there premuim but have it in there reg and mig grade.try to put 100% gasoline in your boat if you can |
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| If you use fuel with ethanol in it, two long time Merc dealers that I know recommend the following "fuel cocktail":
1 oz Marine Stabil or Mercury Fuel System Treatment "Concentrate" per 6 gallons fuel
1oz Quickleen per 6 gallons fuel
1 to 2oz SeaFoam per 6 gallons fuel
They do not recommend running premium in any motor that does not specifically recommend premium. Running premium promotes carbon buildup. |
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Posts: 1767
Location: Lake Country, Wisconsin | I have also been told premium is not necessarily better for bigger engines, I have been told however that is important to use "busy" gas stations otherwise stagnant gas that isn't constantly moving is not good for your engine ( which is why premium can be bad since most people do not use it and it will often just sit there at the pump) |
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Posts: 3508
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Hi Everyone,
Being that your engine is a 96, there is no reason you cannot run an ethanol blend of fuel in your system. The lines will all be alcohol resistant. Lots of things being said here...gets old when people keep bringing up the problems of the past when ethanol first started coming out and the engines out there were not equipped to handle it. That all got started in the 80's.... Now...your engines have been designed to run on 87 octane with the ethanol in it. No worry about using it....it will not hurt your engine. If your engine is dirty, it could help clean it out some as well.
The ONLY thing you don't want to do is let ehtanol sit unstabilized for long long periods of time. Since alcohol is present, it will absorb water, and the water will settle to the bottom of your tank and that will be the first thing through the engine.
So...go ahead and use ethanol. If you are unsure, do a quick search online for an online owner's manual and look it up. If it says to run 90 octane, then run 90. If it says to run 87, then run 87. Going higher octane you get a smoother burn, but no more power from it, so all you are doing, really is throwing the extra money away.
Many will argue with this premise too...
Steve |
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Posts: 582
| If you are running Ethanol, i would put seafoam or Stabil ethanol treatment in the gas. I prefer to run NON ETH gas becasue of the problems stated above. Ethanol is NOT good for motors, just the way it is. you need to use it often or it can hurt your motor. Letting it sit is NOT good.
Edited by jackson 6/1/2010 7:53 AM
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Posts: 3508
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | jackson - 6/1/2010 7:46 AM
Ethanol is NOT good for motors, just the way it is. you need to use it often or it can hurt your motor. Letting it sit is NOT good.
Hiya,
Do you have proof that using the gas causes the problem (just the way it is..) or letting it sit does? If you use it, it will not damage the engine, or any components. If you let it sit, it is not the fault of the gas but the fault of the owner to not properly stabilize a fuel, and that can happen with any fuel...not just ethanol.
People, please start doing a bit of research on the subject from qualified scientists and R&D.
Steve
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Posts: 582
| Ethanol gas has a shorter shelf life.. Will you argue that point? It attracts moisture, is less efficient than regular gasoline. Can that point be argued?
In older equipment, ethanol can degrade fuel hoses, and gum up carbs faster than regular gas.. Can that be argued? I have countless situations of mechanics having to clean carbs, fuel lines, injectors because of the stuff. maybe they are wrong, but i don't think they are ALL incorrect or gas stations wouldn't be advertising "real gas" for us boaters.
just a guess, but do you work for the Ethanol industry?
Edited by jackson 6/1/2010 10:15 AM
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Posts: 3508
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Nope...I don't work for the ethanol industry... I am a mathematics instructor who does his homework and doesn't just buy into one's opinion. http://comosr.spps.org/Vaerst.html if you'd like to check for yourself.
In older equipment....as has been stated many times over, the hoses need to be changed out and it is good to go. That is not the fault of Ethanol...it is the fault of the owner not following up on the guidelines that have been out there for years about what to do with ethanol coming in. In fact, I have a 1973 Johnson 20hp that has not had lines changed out (still the original from when built) and it has never had a problem with gas line deterioration...WHY? Because the gas was always run out of the motor if it were to sit more than 10 days....and that was BEFORE ethanol was produced. Proper maintenance goes a long, long way. If you'd like to see it run, feel free to drop me a line and come on over. I'll fire it right up for you and it hasn't been run in over 2 years.
As for gumming up a motor quicker, that I would argue is completely and utterly false!! With the detergents in today's gasoline blends (all of them) and the fact that alcohol is a solvent, when properly maintained, your engine will be CLEANER!!
Countless situation of when mechanics are cleaning carbs, etc is not due to ethanol..it is due to a lack of maintenance somewhere on the part of the owner. THAT has very little room for argument.
Never said Ethanol had a shorter shelf life...that I do not know... All I know is that it will absorb water more readily due to the alcohol in it, which if left long enought will result in poorer performance. So...as for arguing whether or not it has a shorter shelf life, I'll be straight up and say I don't know that as being fact. But...I will tell you this, if I find it and you are right, I will admit so...
The only point that I will agree with you is the power output of ethanol is less than straight gasoline. All of the others except for the one I will research on, is the fault of an owner not maintaining his/her equipment. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with Ethanol.
At the pump....Spend your money how you wish...if you like straight gas and want to pay the extra $$ for it and make the store more money when your motor may or may not need it, go for it... I'll save my coins for fishing equipment...
Steve |
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Posts: 582
| Again, you boil this all done to the owner maintenance When in fact, Ethanol requires more maintenance that regular gasoline. Yet somehow eth blends are better? doesn't sound like it to me. I don't want to argue this point but since ethanol, there have been more problems with 2 strokes so it seems. I chose not to run the garbage in my boat because its junk. YOu say, it just takes more maintenance. Well, i am not going to pull apart my carbs every weekend to drain the crap gas. In all my years of owning snowmobiles, outboards, inboards, lawn mowers, weed trimmers (the list goes on) i could put stabil in the tank and it runs fine the next season without much work. In today's world, i have to take my stuff to the dealer who wants to charge me and arm and a leg to drop my float bowls on my sleds. Why? Ethanol. That's why.
There has also been tests whether true or not i don't know that say ethanol burns hotter which is NOT good for some engines.
i don't want to argue, i just have had more issues with stuff since the stuff was mandated.
Edited by jackson 6/1/2010 3:17 PM
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Posts: 2323
Location: Stevens Point, WI | Interesting read here. I'll share my two cents from my perspective of working for two different marinas. I'm not looking to argue this one, but my experience is, alcohol in gas is absolutely the culprit that causes problems for the newer 2 strokes.
Both marinas I've worked for, the only gas they recommended to their customers is premium. Reason being, no alcohol. They also said if you can find the rare station that still has regular that is ethonal free, then use it, but those stations are far and few between from what I've seen. Fleet Farm still carries regular that is ethonal free.
I saw two different brands of 2 strokes and one fourstroke just this past week at work that was in due to the use of regular. We actually dumped out about 2 tablespoons of a watery blend of water/alcohol and whatever else from the fuel filter of one engine. So, saying that has nothing to do with harming an engines life is false in my opinion. All three motors were less than two years old, so it doesn't take long to clog up a fuel filter on an engine that has been running regular with ethanol.
When I had one of my Optimax's in for an oil change a few years ago, they told me to avoid regular if at possible, it had already been collecting in the fuel filter. That was with less than a seasons use on it.
Point being, I avoid regular with ethanol as much as possible. Yes, you can use it, and if taken care of properly, it's fine. If there is a preventive measure like premium or going to a station two miles away further, I go. Just my personal take from what I've seen and heard from some very good mechanics!
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Posts: 32950
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | jackson,
Relax,and use what you want how you want. Garbage? Junk? It's an alcohol/petrochemical blend...it's been around for a long time, and will be for a longer time, and I've burned thousands of gallons of the stuff in boats, trucks, and all sorts of gasoline engines. Unblended fuel is going to be harder and harder to find, and the engine builders are reacting in kind. As the older engines that don't like gasohol are phased out, this will not be as serious an issue. |
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Posts: 393
Location: Hopefully on the water | I think it comes down to what your personal preference is and how much you get use out of what every you are running. Personally for me all of the toys, lawn stuff it is premium for myself as I am not always sure when the next time out is going to be or how long things will sit and don't want the extra maintance for preventative measures. The truck on the other hand is run with a slight mix of ethanol but also gets run all the time to not let it sit long enough to worry about it.
i think what TJ saw was a result of the ethanol added gas along with people who don't get out much or it was the first time they had the boat out this season. But that also comes down to VMS's findings of MAINTANCE with any equipement. Both have their place if used properly. |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | i'm more confused now than i was before ...
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Posts: 1764
Location: Ogden, Ut | jonnysled - 6/2/2010 5:32 AM
i'm more confused now than i was before ...
Yeah, right... 
You can eliminate all of your ethanol problems by going to a Yanmar.
S. |
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Posts: 941
Location: Freedom, WI | Been a mechanic for 40 years and use it in my truck and try to avoid it in my stuff that I do not use regular. I do use the Starbrite stuff in the boat because sometimes you can not get straight gas. The guys I told to use the starbrite said it made a very big difference and now use it every tank.
My reasons for not using ethanol blends
Raises price of corn which we should be eating (other things work better than corn anyway), and the ethanol industry gets subsides we do not know of from the government.
Most vehicles get less fuel mileage out of it, so you use more.
Causes more internal wear on motor from less lubrication than straight gas.
More particles in the oil so more oil changes are needed (that is why specs on oils change to try and adjust for its use).
If you do not use a lot of gas (most boats) you need to use marine stabil or starbrite star-tron to keep the alcohol from separating and that causes lots of problems.
Reformulated gas (I believe that is being or has been eliminated) and ethanol makes a mess of the fuel system.
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Posts: 582
| Just read this for all the info you will need. It backs up what i am saying
http://www.evinrude-parts.com/boat_ethanol_danger_precaution.html
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