Muskie Discussion Forums
| ||
| Moderators: sworrall, Slamr | View previous thread :: View next thread |
| Jump to page : 1 Now viewing page 1 [30 messages per page] More Muskie Fishing -> Muskie Biology -> What would be the ultimate colored bait? |
| Message Subject: What would be the ultimate colored bait? | |||
 |
| ||
| Is there anything that is constant in the color world? | |||
|
| ||
| Black is beautiful! But then so is firetiger.... Muskie regards, Larry Ramsell | |||
|
| ||
| Larry pretty much nailed it. Black is guaranteed contrast and if you want to get noticed... you can't beat chartruese. A bright bait and a dark bait.... covers your bases. I guess that is why Firetiger is such a popular pattern. Bright with a splash of black. Not my personal favorite... but a good "jack of all trades". | |||
|
| ||
| red dragon!!!!![;)] | |||
|
| ||
| Perch with an orange belly is awful hard to beat. | |||
|
| ||
| Color don't mean squat!!! [:praise:] | |||
|
| ||
| Are you sure about that Jerry???? You are saying that a muskie doesnt use his eyes for feeding with that comment. We all know that a muskie uses his or her eyes for feeding. We all know that some colors are easier seen that others under different conditions. On a sunny day lower a grey bait into the water on a clear water lake and measure the distance when the bait dissapears. Then do the same with a white bait. Which one dissapears 1st? This is only one of a million examples I could give. The ability for a muskie to see the white bait better (in theory) makes a white bait better because it is easier to see for the muskie...get it? Muskies can not attach meaning to a color like a human does. They plain just do NOT have the ability. But, If a muskie can see a bait better because of a certian color or patern (contrast)you will have better success. (in theory) Hence,color does make a difference (In theory) MUSKY ILLINI "Bow to Leapor Mesiah" | |||
|
| ||
| Well, Muski Illini makes a good point. However.... he is going out on a limb when he makes the general claim that a more visible bait is better. I agree, in most cases, getting noticed MAY be better... and being intelligent enough to select the most visible color for the conditions MAY help you get your lure noticed more easily. However, a musky doesn't need to see your bait to strike it. Therefore, color is not a CRITICAL element... but it may have an influence. Secondly... perhaps a bait that is difficult to see may actually be better at times???? Overstimulation can be a turnoff, and maybe sometimes an overly visible lure just simply turns them off. Maybe, just maybe, when fish are real aggressive and hitting your bait because of the way it feels (like a burned rattle trap) a transparent (invisible) lure would be most productive because you may avoid the chance of turning off the fish with a visual stimulus (I have no idea what that may be, I'm just playing devils advocate here). Just something to think about.... | |||
|
| ||
| jshort...I mean Jlong, Muskie fishing all comes down to mathematics (odds). Increasing your precentages wherever possible. You increase your percentages in MOST cases by making your bait more visible to a muskie by using contrast and color. Are their cases were camoflaging your bait will help from overstimulating a muskie....doubt it...but maybe. When you break it down to its most basic level we should come to the conclusion that this is true because a muskie USES its sense of sight (uses color/contrast) for feeing. It comes down to math, my friend. What increases your percentages and what decreases your precentages. If you are going to have a come back, it better be focused towards trying to convince me that invisible is BETTER. Do not throw out invisible is possible. Cause I know that already, and that does not increase my chances of catching more muskies...... This goes for you too nxtwrldrcd. MUSKY ILLINI "First I was a student ...KNOW I AM THE MASTER!" (just kiddin J).....(about the master and the jshort part... not my view) | |||
|
| ||
| Just when I thought I was rid of you, you drag me back in. If musky fishing is about the math for you… I feel bad, ‘cause you can’t add. And as for your tag line… You’re naiveness shows through plenty still, and you are in no danger of being confused as a “master”. Contrast is not something you should always look for in a bait. Bright obnoxious neon lures often turn or scare the fish off. I have caught a few on firetiger, but most that I see come on the more natural patterns like sucker. With all you’re infinite musky knowledge I’m sure you have heard the old adage: “bright day – bright lure” Dark day-darker lure” It doesn’t sound like the old timers where that concerned about maximum lure contrast. Yes, I have seen a few travel far to strike a lure, but haven’t you noticed most fish hit right after the lure hits the water? Just because they can see your lure halfway across the lake doesn’t mean they are going to come and get it. Take a look in your logbook and see if you notice a pattern…let me know what it says | |||
|
| ||
| NXTWRLDRCD ( I mean MR. SECRATARY)LOL!!!! , Yours goes to 11 ? .......NNNNN ICE. I cant belive that the ALMIGHTY JLONG didnt engage. I must be losing my touch. MUSKY ILLINI "you cant HANDLE the truth!!" | |||
|
| ||
| It’s your brutal ignorance that keeps people from engaging with you. Most people will not waste their valuable time arguing with a rock. The only reason I do is because you’re my partner and I consider this damage control. You where much less annoying as SKEELUNKER, Believe it or not! Any posts after this will be considered votes to get you to SHUT UP! | |||
|
| ||
| HAHAHAHAHA!!!! MR. Secretary, Looks like I pushed the right button, NEXTWRLD. I love to back you into a corner and make you feel like an idiot. I will take that last post as an "I GIVE UP POST". I can always tell when you know you are wrong. You try and change the subject. Color matters BEEEE-ACH. IT’S ALL ABOUT MATHEMATICS Are you sure you are ready for a mental beating AGAIN. I would quit while you are behind before it becomes WAY BEHIND. Will you never learn. Here is a little hint....Try and stick to the subject of "DOES COLOR MATTER?" ...you wont look like such a quitter/Boner. MUSKY ILLINI "YOU are the weakest link" P.S. Give me a call on my cell and let me know what you posted after this post. I am going to be on the road all day. | |||
|
| ||
| red lure and perch/firetiger (something with stripes, thus contrast, in it) | |||
|
| ||
| No doubt the almighty black has caught it's share of fish. I have to say that you can't go wrong with natural perch color neither. Since most lakes have perch populations, and it's been documented by Musky Inc's and other sources that muskie's have the highest percentage of perch forage in their stomachs. I have to go with this color pattern. But I would be lying if I didn't say that the perch is a big confidence colored bait for me, and I'm somewhat bias. catch ya later, Krappie | |||
|
| ||
| Golden Shiner, Golden Shiner, Golden Shiner, Holo-Form Golden Shiner | |||
|
| ||
| Color matters to me...vibration/bait manipulation matters to the fish...hopefully this will convince JLong, Illini + NWR to reconsider their wayward "thinking" and begin their first step to the world of REALITY, a world in which I live...REMEMBER--> a blind man need not see the color of his food in order to consume it; his only concern is to find it![::)] [::)] [::)] | |||
|
| ||
| Sponge, I agree with your "blind man" analogy.... but the majority of muskies are not blind.... so color (or any visual queue) has to help a little. Despite that, I will get right on the R&D for the lure of your dreams. In my opinion, instinctive or reaction strikes are the type we are mostly looking for.... and will get fish to go even when they are not actively feeding (less aggressive). In this case, I think the way your bait feels (moves water) is more important than the way it looks (color).... especially when water clarity is low. In extremely clear water, however, I think FLASH takes a front seat due to the distance factor involved. I also feel this is why rattles have less of an impact in clear water too. The fish commit to a lure from a much greater distance in clear water... and I feel these fish are more visual.... thus color/contrast has more importance here. Lots of variables with this subject... which makes it hard to generalize. Fun stuff though.... | |||
|
| ||
| Yes grasshopper...I am that "blind man"....stumbling through buffet lines as though it were me last meal on earth...not seeing what I eat...yet eating what I percieve to see; as I plunge my hand into the chafing dish, I can only hope that what comes up will also go down...+ stay down! A "partial" agreement is fine w/ me![;)] | |||
|
| ||
| Jason- NO! Absolutely nothing is constant in the Muskie's color world. Oh great Spongy One- You are the all knowing seer in the world of the blind muskie fisherman. To fully understand, you must enter the Muskie's world of color. This color world is modified by the spectral absorbtion properties of water. Yes there may be a specific color that some may quantify as "perfect" a.k.a. Muskie preferred/ultimate bait, i.e., probably something only a few thousand hours on the water can reveal. I'm just not there yet, so I don't feel qualified to answer. However, black should work just about under any lighting condition. Muskies are visually oriented predators. BUT!!! As JLong & others point out. They also possess a powerful non-visual aid, i.e., the lateral line. It has been scientifically proven by Dr. John New, that Muskies can sucessfully feed when deprived of either sensory system. But not when deprived of both. -> http://www.milwaukee-muskies inc.org/strike_feeding_behaviour.pdf1.pdf Consider the color red. In our gaseous air environment, you can see red a long ways away. In the Muskie's water world it appears to mostly disappear in the first ~ 3 ft (1 meter). This would mean that the real beauty of the "Red Dragon" would only be apparent when the fish is within this 3 ft range of the lure. But here again we have another trick of the the underwater light world. What if the lure is 12 ft down and the fish is 3' from the lure. What color is the Red Dragon ?? Answer-> we can't apply our above the water human eye concepts of color to the Muskie. The Muskie lives in an ever changing color world. Scuba divers learn this very quickly, i.e., how water modifies color perception. At 60 feet if you cut yourself, your blood looks green. As human's we can enter this watery domain and gain some insight into how light and water interact. But we may never fully understand how a Muskie visualizes color. The light striking the fish's eye has traveled down 12 ft to the bait then 3 ft to the eye-> ~15 ft total. To a human the Red Dragon will appear greenish w/black contrasts. To the Muskie it may also appear greenish with black contrasts. Now, here's the real food for thought! What about the Muskies eye? They have a yellowish cornea, you'll notice I said yellowish not yellow. I personnaly have not observed an actual Muskie's eye at very close range for any definitive period of time (they were all out of the water for less than 1 minute).... The quandry this presents is that, just like yellow sunglasses modify your color vison, it has to modify the Muskies color world. Want an experiment- go into Wal-Mart find a pair of yellow sunglasses-> put them on and have a look around you at the different colors. Some blues will shift to green while others won't, reds will shift, etc.... There are other fish that also have yellowish cornea's and some that even have the ability to modify the pigmentation to fit differing light conditions. The yellow cornea is usually classed as an adaptation of twilight feeders. Once again I have to defer to Dr. John New on this subject -> http://www.trentu.ca/muskie/biology/biol07.html If indeed the Muskie's eye cone cells are "tuned" to red-orange-yellow-green, I believe the yellowish cornea acts as a underwater color correction/contrast enhancement filter. If that's true, then the Red Dragon may very well appear as red, even at 15 ft.. The yellowish cornea should also have a pronounced effect of increasing contrast under low light conditions. I know that Dr. New and other researcher sometimes visit the Muskie web sites. So I'd like to ask them and anyone else out there with an opinion to comment. I also have a couple of questions. 1. Has anyone ever researched the optical effect of the Muskie's yellow cornea? The optical effect in water could be very different than that in air. 2. Do they have the ability to change their optical spectrum by changing the degree of yellowish-orange pigmentation of the cornea? 3. Have you ever noticed variation in yellow cast of the Muskies eye's? Are they more orangish yellow in some fish? Darker & lighter? I think I see this in some of the photo's posted on this web site and others. Perhap's its just variation from ambient lighting conditions. For those of you that really want to explore this subject of water, color & light I'm going to post another thread.. with some web site links. Have fun. Al Warner www.icantplayfindmyfoot.com | |||
| Jump to page : 1 Now viewing page 1 [30 messages per page] |
| Search this forum Printer friendly version E-mail a link to this thread |
Copyright © 2025 OutdoorsFIRST Media |