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Posts: 138
Location: Utah | Maybe it's just us but when we troll say depth raiders or li'l Ernies at higher MPH on our GPS. Say 2.5 and above these lures seem to spin and run up to the surface. We'll have anywhere from 75'- 150' of line out flat line trolling. We've invested in the lure tuner tool but it doesn't seemed to help with this blow out issue.
Has anyone else expericed this? Any advice on how to stop this spinng issue aka blow out of the lure coming to the surface is greatly appreciated.
Thanks in Advance!
K2 |
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Location: Des Moines IA | I run DR's at speeds closer to 6 or 7 mph before they blow out. Never ran many Ernies though? I'd say with the DR's, rod tip placement is a pretty big deal, I try to run the rod tip at about a 20 degree upward angle if there aren't any floating weeds. If there are floating weeds, I run the rod tip straight into the water at about a 45 degree angle towards the lure. What line are you using? Braided seems to help me as well, mono seems to increase drag on the lure in my opinion. I do have a few modified DRs (added weight) that won't troll for anything, but other than that all my DR's run true? |
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Posts: 138
Location: Utah | We're spooled up with Power Pro super braid. But possibly it could be the rod tip angle. We have put the rod tip up slightly and still had the blow out problem. Guess we'll experiment a little more with rod tip positioning. Thanks!! |
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Posts: 742
Location: Grand Rapids MN | I've ran both those lures up to 4.5 mph and haven't had problems with them blowing out but I have never ran that much line out with them. What kind of depths are you trying to reach? Still these shouldn't be spinning or rolling on you. I assume you tuned them next to the boat to make sure they are running as straight as possible and not pulling to one side? I guess make sure the hooks are not getting hung up on each other or around the lip and I would add a split ring to the line eye just in case your leader snaps are hanging up or binding some. |
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Posts: 138
Location: Utah | Targa01 - 9/27/2009 1:03 PM
I've ran both those lures up to 4.5 mph and haven't had problems with them blowing out but I have never ran that much line out with them. What kind of depths are you trying to reach? Still these shouldn't be spinning or rolling on you. I assume you tuned them next to the boat to make sure they are running as straight as possible and not pulling to one side? I guess make sure the hooks are not getting hung up on each other or around the lip and I would add a split ring to the line eye just in case your leader snaps are hanging up or binding some.
Yep did exactly what you indicated on lure tuning and I don't believe the hooks are get'n hung up and/or hung uparound the lure lip...however and 'please' don't call us nuts, we don't use any leader at all out here and Utah. We've yet had any Tiger Musky cut our line and/or break it because we didn't use a leader. Biggest issue and only a couple of times the hooks bent and/or snap swivel failed. We've caught numerous Tigers. anywhere from 20" up to 51" without any type of leader.
Here's our setups...Power Pro super braid 40-50#; ball bearing snap swivels rated at 60-80# and all lures mentioned will have a quality split rings on the lures eye already or we add a split ring if the lure comes without a split ring.
Again appreciate the tips and help...we purchase all our TM lures outta state and hate to not use them because of this blow out issue. |
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Posts: 742
Location: Grand Rapids MN | Strange that its happening to a few of your lures. How many do you have doing this and what brands/types are you having problems with? Is it just the DR and Ernies? Your set up should be fine with the snaps and split rings even without a leader. Do the lures stay down for a while or come up as soon as you stop putting out line? Also do they come up while making turns? Curious if the lines are coming in contact just long enough to fowl a lure? Only difference from my experience is amount of line out. The only time we've had lures come up to the surface is they fowled from weeds or another line. The 10" straight Believers are good for catching other lines if we run to much line out. I guess the other thing I can think of is bottom contact. We've plowed DR's through the rocks and they jump around but never come up but its a possibility. |
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Posts: 380
Location: Michigan | I would say somethign is funny if the DR's aren't running correctly. Try tuning them to run perfectly straight with about 15-20 feet of line out at 4 mph. It may take 3-10 adjustments to get them just right. If you can run them at 4 mph, you will be able to slow down and they will run even better. I find ernies are much more sensative to both tuning and speed. Just takes more patience... |
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Posts: 295
Location: Southern Ontario, Detroit River and Lake StClair | I run a ton of DR's and Ernies up to 5.5 MPH and in current and never have a problem. I also run them from 15ft to 120ft back with no problem. I tune them at 4-5mph with 5ft of line out. Do they always roll the same way no matter how you tun them? Personally I'd loose the swivel on the snap that connects to the lure. I only have a swivel on the end of my leader that attachs to the main line. Since you have no leader though....I guess you can't. I have had some lures that were very finicky when it came to have too much steel attached to the lip.
Good Luck
Tim
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Posts: 1716
Location: Mt. Zion, IL | bend the eye on the lure opposite how the lure blows out. |
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Posts: 20219
Location: oswego, il | Here is how I tune my lures. At your trolling speed put out about 6 feet of line and rip the lure forward very fast. See if it darts up in one direction. bend the eye in the direction you want the lure to go to make it run straight. Just watching it run at your trolling speed will not be good enough, especially on the turns. Rip it hard and you can get the lure to run perfect. |
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Posts: 3240
Location: Racine, Wi | Did you check the hook hangers to make sure they are straight as well? Those may be out of alignment which could cause that issue as well. Most DRs run pretty good right out of the package, but some do need adjustments. Usually if I'm having an issue with one not running true, especially if I've caught a fish on it recently, I would check those hook hangers to make sure they aren't out of wack. |
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Posts: 138
Location: Utah | Greatly appreciate the advise and tips. We're going to work rod angle and also work at tuning these lures again. I'll report back on what eventually corrects the blow out problems. It's only a couple of lures Li'l Ernies (jointed) and one DR. Thanks K2 |
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Posts: 194
| I remember one time I got a Li'l Ernie that wasn't made correctly. The problem looked like the molds didn't mate correctly. There was a notable difference from one side of the lip to the other. I had the eye bent all the way to one side and it still wouldn't work. Don't know if this is your problem, but if it is, they replaced my lure for free and even sent another lure for the trouble. |
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Posts: 311
Location: Ontario | There's no way a properly set-up Depth Raider or Ernie won't do 6mph+. You've got a bent tow eye and/or hanger screw. If you're blowing out going as slow as you say you are, the lure is really screwed up. Totally fixable, though. |
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Posts: 138
Location: Utah | Guest - 9/28/2009 2:41 PM
So let me get this straight..... you dont use a leader when fishing for muskies?
Why would you even take a chance of a bite off?
Use a leader for the fish's sake.
Hmmmm....well Mr./Ms. Guest we've done just fine without any bite off ...fish like you want and we'll fish how we want and lets just leave it at that.
We've done just fine without any leader...you're choice is using a leader fine our choice isn't a leader... Maybe you should try fish'n without a leader and then post your results.
Like I stated we've caught some rather nice TMs out here in Utah without any bite off.
Vast majority of the time the fish is only lip hooked and with 50# super braid, quality bearing swivels, and split rings even the alligator turns in the net hasn't cut the line...including we've had to cut the line and hooks to release the fish quicker.
Thank you very much for your concern about us not using a leader...anglers choice of tackle and ours is no leader....so please if you can't help with the context of this thread on lure blow out...well keep your choice on how to fish from your own boat to your own tackle and techniques on how you choose to fish.
Now for the other comments again we sincerely appreciate all the constructive feed back on 'lure blow out' and how to correct it. Thanks K2 |
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Posts: 194
| Just a thought, but, maybe the lures need a leader of some sort. Have you tried using one to see how the lures behave with a leader? Not trying to tell you how to fish, just offering an idea. |
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| I've got a grandma and a jake that I bought that wouldn't run right. After a little examination I noticed that the lips were not aligned with the body properly. The grandma was slightly off so I filed the side off. The jake was pretty bad and I still have to send that one in. Check the centerline of the lip and see if it's in line with the body. |
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Posts: 1764
Location: Ogden, Ut | I've only had one DR that I couldn't tune to run at least 4.5 mph. It was in a Plano box out in the sun a bit too long and the heat got the better of it...looked a little bit 'banana-ish'. My baby ernies have always run pretty true once tuned, but have never produced as good as the baby DRs.
Most of the suggestions are sound and mine are probably merely redundant; make sure the line tie eyes and hook hangers are in line w/ the long axis of the lure. Make sure you tune the lure the same speed as (or faster than) you want to fish it; that will be your best que as to whether the lure will run true w/ line out. I also only rarely fish more than 60' behind the boat; but I doubt that has much to do w/ the tuning issue. I'm wondering if the lack of leader could have anything to do w/ the tuning issue. My leader setup has a solid ring and either a split ring or a stay-loc snap on the terminal end possibly allowing more freedom larger lures require to wobble/wander. Perhaps the lack of leader (and it's associated terminal hardware) is restricting the wider wobble the DRs have causing them to be pulled straighter than they like. Just a thought.
S. |
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| I think you may be having this problem because you are not running a leader. You said your using snap swivels this puts the swivel right in front of the lip and it may be displacing to much water making the bait run funny. If you were using trolling leaders the swivel would be 3 feet away from the lure with less interference with the lure. Good luck |
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