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| The DNR confirmed that dozens of fish that washed ashore near Grant Park, here in SE Wisconsin, died from VHS desease.
I started to think, the salmon around here at this time of year have been tracked and generally show up later in the year from Port Washington to Door County as part of their migration pattern. With infected fish heading north for the rest of the year, is it only a matter of time before they are sharing the same waters with the big fish that inhabit the Green Bay area during the fall? I called the DNR office here in Milwaukee, but was given few answers about the likelihood of the desease migrating along with the fish.
Anybody out there know more than the people that answer the phones down here? Infected fish are here right now. They are moving north. Personally I hope that they die before getting out of Milwaukee County, but what are the chances of them spreading the desease as they make their way to Door County?
Beav |
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Location: Green Bay, WI | Well unfortunately VHSv is already in Lake Michigan (and Green Bay), and has been so for a couple years most likely. It's simply a matter of time before the viral load reaches a point high enough to affect multiple fish. And I don't really see how it *won't* happen--judging from what has been seen in Lakes Ontario, Eerie and St. Clair. It has affected Lake Huron to some degree, but the other lakes mentioned seem to have been more severely affected, from the data I have seen.
Did you hear any report at what species of fish were found?
TB
Edited by tcbetka 6/6/2008 7:29 AM
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| They were all salmon and trout, but that is all that we have around here except for perch. |
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Location: Green Bay, WI | That's curious...
Most of the fish reported to have been killed by VHSv in the Great Lakes over the past few years seem to have died from Type IVb, and I don't recall seeing many salmonids or trout affected. Instead, fish like muskies, perch, walleye, a few bass and some rough fish seem to have been more affected.
From what I recall, Type IVa has affected some salmonid fish and herring off the coasts of the US over the past decade or so. So possibly this implies that Type IVb isn't the culprit now (maybe at least a little good news for walleye & musky?), or that it can indeed affect these species as well?
VHSv is scary stuff, and there really isn't anything we can do about what's already here. There is no known way to eradicate the virus from the water. All we can hope to do is control the spread to inland waters...
TB |
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Location: Sheboygan Falls, WI | This is from the Journal/Sentinel. Where the information about salmon and trout is coming from is beyond me; that is unless there has been another die off that has not been reported yet, but I highly doubt it. I have spoken with others from the area that said they were gobies as well. In speaking with the DNR, the only case found in any salmon or trout was the one in Algoma. I have also been told that since salmon are a cold water species, they are less likely to be affected by VHS; warm water species are another story.
Chuck
THURSDAY, June 5, 2008, 12:51 p.m.
By Lee Bergquist
DNR confirms fish carried worrisome virus
Thousands of small fish that washed along the Lake Michigan shore at Grant Park in southern Milwaukee County were killed by invasive fish disease, the Department of Natural Resources reported today.
The fish are round gobies and died from viral hemorrhagic septicemia, also known as VHS.
The Wisconsin Veterinary Diagnostic Laboratory in Madison confirmed the presence of the disease from gobies that were found May 28.
DNR fisheries director Michael Staggs said the finding was not a surprise because the virus has previously been found in Lake Michigan. However, this is the first finding of VHS off shore from Milwaukee and the first time the disease has been found in the southern basin of Lake Michigan.
Round gobies are believed to more susceptible to the disease and have been killed in large numbers in Lake Ontario and the St. Lawrence Seaway.
The finding is also more bad news for Wisconsin's sport fishery, valued by the DNR at $2.3 billion a year, which has been harmed by an array of invasive species.
"VHS continues to be a serious threat to Wisconsin fish and everyone needs to continue following the rules to prevent the spread of the disease," Staggs said in a statement.
The disease is not a threat to humans.
It was first found in Wisconsin in May 2007 in the Lake Winnebago system. Later that month it was documented in brown trout in northern Lake Michigan near Algoma and Kewaunee.
In the latest finding, four fish tested for VHS were among the thousands of decomposing gobies that that found along the beach at Grant Park.
Infected fish transmit the virus through their urine and reproductive fluids. It eventually causes blood vessels to weaken and hemorrhage, according to the DNR.
Some fish can develop antibodies. But over time, antibodies can decline, and the fish can start secreting the virus again and create new cycles of infection.
Even after the virus leaves the fish, scientists have found that it can move through the water and infect other fish for 14 days.
Staggs said the virus has even been known to stay alive in frozen bait.
Edited by C_Nelson 6/6/2008 7:46 AM
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Location: Green Bay, WI | This is very likely Type IVb, judging by everything I have read over the past 6-8 months. I am not certain how valuable gobies are as forage down in those waters, but I think it would be a worse situation up here--for bass & musky anyway...maybe for walleye as well. But there are so many shad here in Green Bay that the muskies may not be feeding extensively on gobies; I guess you'd need to examine the stomach contents through necropsy or gastric lavage to find out for sure.
But I sure hope there aren't many game fish feeding on gobies down there. The recent water temperatures are where the virus thrives, so I suppose I'm not surprised by the news. Just disappointed...
TB
EDIT: By the way Chuck, VHSv is a cold water disease. So the bit about salmon not being as affected is not necessarily valid, from what I know. Instead, the sub-type of VHSv organism seems to be the determining factor. For Type IVb of the virus, salmonids don't seem to be as vulnerable as the esocids and percids do.
Edited by tcbetka 6/6/2008 8:16 AM
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Location: Sheboygan Falls, WI | Reports from guys fishing out of Wisconsin ports this spring have found Lake Trout and Brown Trout packed FULL of gobies. Looks like some of our fish are changing their eating habits.
Chuck |
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Location: Green Bay, WI | Well, then that could be a major problem. From the paper written by El Sayed et al, there isn't all that much difference between Types IVa & IVb (which seems obvious, since they didn't call it "Type V"), so I suppose that it could kill salmonids as well if given enough of a chance.
TB |
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Location: Sheboygan Falls, WI | I will bet you it is not going to be a problem. I have faith in God that he does things for a reason. It will be the survival of the fittest and the weak shall be taken. Gobies are a nuisance and will be kept in check. I personally believe, along with MANY others that fish Lake Michigan, that VHS out there is being blown out of proportion. VHS has been in the lake for so long that if it really was going to take a toll, we would have seen the effects already.
SILVER FISH RULE!! |
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| I didn't read the paper, but the guys on TV were the ones who mentioned salmon. Perhaps they got the story wrong, because they said "dozens of fish", not thousands.
Beav |
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Location: Green Bay, WI | C_Nelson - 6/6/2008 8:56 AM
I will bet you it is not going to be a problem. I have faith in God that he does things for a reason. It will be the survival of the fittest and the weak shall be taken. Gobies are a nuisance and will be kept in check. I personally believe, along with MANY others that fish Lake Michigan, that VHS out there is being blown out of proportion. VHS has been in the lake for so long that if it really was going to take a toll, we would have seen the effects already.
SILVER FISH RULE!!
Boy, I sure hope that you are correct Chuck. I am not sure that I am that confident, but I hope the heck that you are right...
TB |
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Location: Grand Rapids, MI | Tom - There was a salmonid VHS kill in Huron with Whitefish. There have been confirmed Chinook with the disease but so far no large kill. As you know, it seems the affected fish need to be concentrated during water temps when VHSv is active (generally spawning or wintering in warm water areas) Salmonids aren't usually concentrated during this time and their relatively short lifespan is likely a big reason why we're not seeing big kills among salmonids. |
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| I know for a fact that the solmon and trout love the gobys in IL. I have chaught many with there stomachs full of goby. it is only a spring and fall thing once the fish move out over deep water they are full of allwives and such. I fish out of northpoint about 30miles south of Milwaukee. I would think they are the same schools of fish. The funny thing is in IL there is very little talk of the VHS. There is no rules about draining youre live wells or anything for that matter. So I would guess VHS should spread like wildfire in IL TILL every lake has it then the IDNR will step in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My home body of water is 20 min from the big pond (fox chain)on any windy day you will see the big water boats fishing for eyes and such. I would guess that very few were out of the water for 5 days or that they washed down the boat to kill the VHS. I am going to send that article to my local IDNR and see if we cant get some new regs past like the WDNR has done Before we have to say what do we do now. Thanks GREAT POST NICK C |
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Location: Green Bay, WI | Will Schultz - 6/6/2008 9:43 AM
Tom - There was a salmonid VHS kill in Huron with Whitefish. There have been confirmed Chinook with the disease but so far no large kill. As you know, it seems the affected fish need to be concentrated during water temps when VHSv is active (generally spawning or wintering in warm water areas) Salmonids aren't usually concentrated during this time and their relatively short lifespan is likely a big reason why we're not seeing big kills among salmonids.
I remember hearing something about the Whitefish kills, I think... In Green Bay last May, there was a report of a VHSv-positive Whitefish as well. But I am not so sure about the need to be concentrated for a big fish kill. Certainly the exchange of body fluids (during the spawn, for example) is a potential way to transmit the disease--but it can easily be transmitted via infected forage as well. And if an infected gobie gets picked off by a predator (because it's sick and more vulnerable, for instance), I would be willing to be that this could result in a significant infection of the predator fishery; and it may even be worse because of the potential for bio-concentration of the virus through ingestion of multiple (infected) prey fish.
So while I think that the virus may "move" more quickly into the predator system during congregations like those that occur during the spawn, I have absolutely no doubt that a significant predator fish kill can (and probably will) be seen in response to the consumption of infected forage.
TB
Edited by tcbetka 6/6/2008 2:59 PM
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Location: The desert | I'm with Chuck, the VHS thing might be being blown out of proportion. I remember when Whirling disease was supposed to wipe out the entire Western United States trout fisheries. Yeah some fish get whirled, but it wasnt the doomsday scenario that was painted to begin with. VHS will probably knock out some fish, but I dont think its as grim of an outlook as believed. |
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| The western trout were done some serious damage - both in reality and from an economic standpoint. If I remember correctly it was rainbows and not browns that were the most affected and much more so in some fisheries than others. My point is I guess, that while not "all" waters were even really hurt by whirling disease some were really devastated, especially those that were more rainbow fisheries. Attention shifted to brown trout for years and now it seems to be under control to some extent. It would suck if it is muskies (or any popular gamefish) that gets hit, but this great lakes muskie thing is so new and so promising it would be a big 'ol bummer if it takes a hit. I agree that things will work out - they always do, but we should take it seriously and not just have "faith" and leave it at that ( faith is good but so is science)- we should be concerned. |
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| This reminds me a little of Chronic Wasting Desease. Scientists from several areas of the country who studied CWD for most of their careers said that chronic wasting desease has been around for centuries in different concentrations, and that we were responding with a knee-jerk response. So now we have 'Eradication Zones' that produce very few numbers of infected deer, but they continue to kill as many as they can anyway.
I'm glad that there are people on this board that are learned people who know the facts and what they are talking about in scientific terms. I am glad that they are here keeping us enlightened about this subject and others. Thanks to you guys who make your living taking care of our fish. Keep us updated so that drunks in the bars still think that VHS is an out-dated way to watch a movie and we don't have to put up with bar room biology.
Come to think of it, between the price of gas and other problems, I didn't hear one word about spearing this spring.
Beav |
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Location: MadCity Wisconsin | You may be right Chuck. A little slice of good news I heard from a guide on Lake St. Clair is that some muskies were killed a few years back from VHS but most survived and the muskie fishing there, according to the guide, is better than it has ever been. Escpecially for numbers of bigger fish caught. We can only hope to be so lucky! |
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| I agree with Chuck on this one as well.
5 years ago CWD was going to ruin the WI deer herd. 10 years ago the Zebra mussel was going to shut down the Mississippi.
Nature has a way of working things out..... |
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| WELL we got the report earlier this week . They have found VHS in wintrop harbor in IL . So IL finally has some restictions set about draining water and so on
Edited by muskysucker1 7/6/2008 9:35 PM
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