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Posts: 714
Location: Rhinelander, WI | John why couldn't a Michigan Warden Launch on Cisco or Thousand Island and patrol down to the border lakes.
Very interesting discussion, still confusing.
Nail A Pig!
Mike
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Posts: 2515
Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | They could, do and have, I've been checked by the MDNR, but I was told they have plenty to regulate on the rest of the chain not to have to worry about the slivers of Michigan waters. "Wisconsin patrols those pretty well", I was told. |
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Posts: 2323
Location: Stevens Point, WI | I would concur with that too Cisco. I've even had MI and WI wardens stop me on boundary waters. I was close enough to the boundary I guess they felt it was ok to stop me. I got stopped by a MI warden coming into a WI launch before and vice versa for a WI warden launching at a MI launch. |
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Posts: 714
Location: Rhinelander, WI | To add a little more confusion to the mix, in case anyone missed it, this is the last sentence of the first paragraph from the Michigan-Wisconsin Boundary Water Regulations page, in the Michigan Fishing Guide.
“Where regulations of Michigan and Wisconsin differ, persons shall comply with the regulations of the state in whose territorial waters they are fishing.”
I could not find anything in the Michigan guide that stated it was illegal to troll on Michigan-Wisconsin boundary waters. Trolling is legal state wide, so I would surmise that the people stating it’s legal to troll on the boundary waters as long as you are in Michigan waters are correct. The guide specifically states this is the case for LVD, but does not address the other waters.
I am not a warden or a lawyer and you really shouldn’t be required to be either to understand the fishing and hunting regulations, but that doesn’t appear to be the case in many situations.
Nail A Pig!
Mike
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Posts: 2515
Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | “Where regulations of Michigan and Wisconsin differ, persons shall comply with the regulations of the state in whose territorial waters they are fishing.”
Thus the regs for LVD vs other boundry water lakes. LVD has a Michigan launch, you're already in Michigan. If you fish Tenderfoot, you're in Wisconsin teritorrial waters. You aren't coming from Michigan or launching in Michigan. You're using Wisconsin waters to gain access to Michigan.
I agree, the regs should just be nice and easy.. Don't troll Mich/Wis boundry waters. If Wisconsin's regs would change, then "Troll Mich/Wisconsin boundry waters". |
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Posts: 1906
Location: Oconto Falls, WI | John, if what you perceive is true about where you launch then the Cisco Chain would also fall under the same rules as LVD. I could launch on any of the lakes located in MI, and troll the MI side of Big, Mamie, or West Bay and be legal. The license situation part I am not concerned about as I buy a MI license anyway.
I agree, I wish the regs. for both states should be aligned and say the same thing. I get the impression that the MI DNR could care less if you are trolling as on any other body of water in MI it is allowed. Therefore they don’t enforce the trolling issue on Vilas Cty boundary lakes. It’s really a WI law in Vilas, and the WI DNR is left to enforce it. Sometimes I think the WI DNR could give a rats @ss about enforcing it on those waters as well, but I don’t take the chances.
Sloan, if you talk to a MI DNR from Crystal Falls area let me know who you talk to. I would like to get in contact with that individual myself. I had talked to several individuals in the past from Chrystal Falls and they all told me it was illegal to troll, but all were also not quite certain because of the way the regs. are written. Heck if the Wardens themselves aren’t sure we’re all in trouble!
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Posts: 2515
Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | "John, if what you perceive is true about where you launch then the Cisco Chain would also fall under the same rules as LVD"
I was told that if you're planning to troll LVD, plan on treating your trip to LVD as if its a trip to Michigan. Launch from Mich and have a Mich license. Yes, you could look at the Chain that way, BUT, there's no MICHIGAN launch on Mamie, West bay or Big Lake....there is a Michigan launch on LVD. With all that water in Michigan, if you're going to launch on T-Island lake or Cisco lake, why would you care about trolling the boundry waters? This is mute because the regs apply to LVD, not the other lakes. |
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Posts: 1270
| I hat to tell you that I told you so but I TOLD YOU SO!!! HAHA
CiscoKid. When I talked to the MI DNR the guy's name in Crystal Falls was Tim but I did not get his last name. I have his and Tim Price (WI DNR) cell phone numbers in one of my musky boxes so that if there is any confusion when I am on LVD the warden can call one of the Tim's and clear it up.
One word of warning though. Even though it's legal to troll you can expect to be screamed at by people who don't know the law. I had two guys in a pontoon cruise up right next to me and start screaming at me. He said he was going to call the DNR, I then picked up my cell phone and tolled him that if he didn't leave me alone ASAP I was going to call the Sheriff on him for harrassement, he left after that. |
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Location: searchin for 50 | Does that really surprise you that the wardens are confused. How about adding the vhs regs into the mix and you are talking about a major cluster f--- waiting to happen. |
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Posts: 350
Location: WESTERN WI | Even though I don't troll LVD or do I ever plan to (the sound of an outboard running constantly in the nortwoods is just wrong IMO) this should make it a no-brainer that fishing suckers or "position fishing" should be allowed on either side of the Lake. D'oh, I brought up position fishing already and its only May... sorry everyone.
Edited by Got Esox? 5/8/2008 11:56 PM
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Posts: 2515
Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | "no-brainer that fishing suckers or "position fishing" should be allowed on either side of the Lake."
It is a no brainer because you can position fish anywhere you want up in Vilas. You can't, however, motor troll. |
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Posts: 285
Location: NE Wisconsin | Didn't anyone read this, or is it just that you don't believe it???? Or like some in the boundary area who hate trolling, don't want others to know the truth???
Cut-n-paste from The Guide to Wisconsin Hook and Line Fishing Regulations 2007-2008, page 52:
"Motor trolling is permitted on Wisconsin-Michigan Boundary Waters except Vilas County boundary waters, where motor trolling is prohibited."
The above is from an earlier post. If read closely it means, in WI counties other then Vilas County, you can troll on boundary waters, on BOTH sides of the state line, BUT in Vilas county, you can NOT troll on Vilas county boundary waters, But you can troll on Michigan boundary waters. Meaning, if you are on the WI side of the line, you are Vilas County boundary waters and can not troll. If you are on the Michigan side you are on Michigan boundary waters and you are legal to troll. Simple, but often misunderstood.
John Aschenbrenner |
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Posts: 714
Location: Rhinelander, WI | Johnnie, I think understand what you are saying. It is not very clear though, because when people hear the term boundary water they usually associated that with the entire lake, however looking closely at the sentence from the regs I think I understand. Based on how they wrote the sentence if the intent was to outlaw trolling on the entire system I think it would have been written like the following: "Motor trolling is permitted on Wisconsin-Michigan Boundary Waters except Vilas County-Michigan boundary waters, where motor trolling is prohibited." They left out that second Michigan which could imply they are talking about Vilas County water exclusively. Nail A Pig! Mike |
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Posts: 285
Location: NE Wisconsin | Mike, I have motor trolled Vilas county-Michigan boundary waters, but on the Michigan side. On one particullar lake, I have found threating notes on my truck, stating my truck license and boat numbers were phoned in to the DNR and I would getting a ticket in the mail. Well, I never got any ticket. These were just scare tactics by a lake resident who doesn't like trolling on "his" lake. To quote another line from 2008 Guide to Wisconsin Hook and Line Fishing Regulations. page 58, regarding Wisconsin-Michigan Boundary Waters, "Regulations on these waters differ between states. You must obey the regulation of the state in which you are fishing." If I am fishing in Michigan, I "must obey" their laws and troll at will!!!!! Good luck this year Mike, and catch a big one.
John Aschenbrenner |
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Posts: 619
Location: Verona, WI | Here's my get out of jail free card on this one - it's the email I got from the MI DNR. I keep it in my boat in case I do get stopped for trolling. It also has MI DNR contact info if you want it.
"You can troll on the Michigan side, but not on the Wisconsin side.
Thanks, Tim Robson
PS. Do not hesitate to contact me if you have any further questions.
Sgt. Timothy D. Robson
Department of Natural Resources
Law Enforcement Division
1420 US-2 West
Crystal Falls, MI 49920
TX: (906) 875-6622
Fax: (906) 875-3336
Cell: (906) 284-0066
Pager: (906) 222-2742
E-Mail: [email protected]"
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Posts: 2515
Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | "Where regulations of Michigan and Wisconsin differ, persons shall comply with the regulations of the state in whose territorial waters they are fishing.”
Johnnie...if you're on LVD nobody should be giving you a hard time. If you're not, then you're only making trouble for yourself. |
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Posts: 285
Location: NE Wisconsin | Gander Mt.
Where on page 58 of the 2008-2009 Wisconsin Fishing Regulations does it mention the above only pertains to LVD? In fact, on the top of the page it lists all the waters which are included in the Wisconsin-Michigan Boundary Waters. If you mean by "making trouble for yourself" I might irritate a lake resident or two who doesn't like trolling, well let that be. They will have to deal with law enforcement people for harassment. |
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Location: Athens, Ohio | All this looks to me like one more reason to fish Minnesota, instead. m |
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Posts: 2515
Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | "Where on page 58 of the 2008-2009 Wisconsin Fishing Regulations does it mention the above only pertains to LVD? "
Since you're an expert on where you can and cannot troll, I'm sure you took time to read page 13 of the Michigan fishing regulations. "You may fish from a motor boat with the motor running or sailboat under sail ONLY ON THE WATERS OF LAC VIEUX DESERT IN GOGEBIC CO."
I capped the last part for you.
Edited by Gander Mt Guide 5/16/2008 10:25 AM
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Posts: 82
Location: deep in the slop | I WISH THEY WOULD STRAIGHTEN THIS STUFF OUT. TOO MANY GUYS TRYING TO PUSH THE RULES. PERSONALLY WITH THE WAY THE RULES ARE RIGHT NOW, I THINK THEY SHOULD GET A TICKET. HOWEVER MICHIGAN AND WI DNR NEED TO FIGURE THIS OUT. EITHER MAKE IT LEGAL OR DONT. |
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Location: Sun Prairie, WI | MT Mike,
I can see why you want this removed. Can you say hijacked?  |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Just a natural progression of the discussion on that body of water. |
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Posts: 285
Location: NE Wisconsin | John
Just read the line on Michigan regs for 2008 on line, BUT I find different wording. It says,"You may fish from a motor boat with a motor running or a sailboat under sail only 'on the Michigan portions' of the waters of Lac Vieux Desert in Gogebic Co." But, no where, in the Michigan regs could I find, you could not troll in Michigan portions of say...Smokey Lake, Iron Co. All I find is that it is legal to troll in Michigan, and if I am on Michigan waters I can troll. Please show me where it states anywhere in the Michigan Regs, where it is illegal to motor troll in any MICHIGAN territorial waters!
Also, on this page, the second sentence states, "Where regulations of Michigan and Wisconsin differ, persons shall comply with the regulations of the state in whose territorial waters they are fishing." Am I still missing something?????
John Aschenbrenner
Edited by Johnnie 5/18/2008 10:17 PM
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Posts: 2515
Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | The regs on page 13 are strictly for Boundry Waters...its specifically states what I quoted. If you want to continue to try to "read things" into what the the regs CLEARLY state on page 13 for WIS/MICH boundry waters, then by all means keep doing what you're doing....illegally. The only Michigan boundry water you can troll (Michigan side only) is LVD.
As far as I know, trolling specifically Michigan waters that have no boundry to Wisconsin is fine. |
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