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Posts: 238
| I rather have the guide fishing with me, not only will you learn more you can see how he breaks anything down in his head, locations, conditions, patterns and boat control and if your not sure why he did something you could ask him, I think most of them will tell you! I took my first guide trip last summer and I told myself to watch and learn and to not ask to many questions!! I think if your always asking questions that will start to bug the guide and get him off his game plan. I think you can learn alot by paying attention to detail and how he is useing a certain bait and why!! Cost of a guide doesn't bug me, but i didn't think you have to tip them!!
I can understand if a guide took you out for 17 hrs, but if it was a regular 8 hrs. I dont think so for 400$!! Maybe Iam wrong!!
Thnaks!!! |
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Posts: 32959
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Well then, f4, you wouldn't hire some of the guides out there. 17 hours would cost you $700 in my rig.
Most of my guide days in the summer last 10 to 12, and anything over 4 is a full day.
125 days completed on the water might be considered a full schedule in MN.
Anyone doesn't think a guide should be paid the going rate, don't hire one. Simple. |
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Posts: 238
| I unerstand Steve i was just commenting on a guide that mentioned taking a client out for 17 hrs. I think it was Hulbert that mentioned it and I also would
believe that fishing was super hot and the both didn't want to leave!1 But I"am just guessing!! Thanks |
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| No, not really....
We caught fish for sure, but this client wanted to fish 3 differently lakes and we did...catching fish on all three.
My clients know before they enter the boat....they are going to fish until they tell me to stop. I let them make the decision how long they want to fish.
One thing is for certain, I have NEVER had a client unhappy with the amount of time I gave them. If they want to fish 8 hours...great...if they want to fish 16, that is cool to....
Also, alot of my half days are 7 hours....yes, 7 hours for $150. Why? Because to me, 7 hours is about half a day's fishing.
HULBERT |
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| I can attest to Hulbert's days on the water. I've fished with him as both a client, contest winner and friend, and never has he been the one to call it a day.
To be honest, at times it feels like you need to beg him to come in.
Alot has been said about guides on this thread. I've fished with 8 or so for muskys. Some good, some bad. Not a single one of them spends as much time on the water as Mike. $400 a day, yes that seems a bit high. The market, whether it is the stock market, realestate or fishing guides is always inaccurate in the present time. Over time however, it is very accurate. Some guide may bend a few folks over for $400 a day, but if he isn't bringing something to the game and putting fish in the boat, the customers are never coming back.
I'm not always in pressed with fishing with a guide and boating a few when everbody on the lake boated fish that day, but during the stretches when fishing is particularly tuff, guys like Mike really shine.
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Location: Illinois | Now I don't expect a guide to stay out more than ten hours. Eleven, twelve hours I feel fortunate. what you do Mike is crazy but in a good way. I've got lots of respect for a guy who'll devote all that time to a client. Shame on a client who takes advantage of that type of kindness and doesn't leave a nice tip! It's no wonder you are where you are when you work that hard. No knock on guides who "only" do 8-9 hour trips- you guys are busting your butts too!
Mike Witowski |
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Posts: 444
| For what it's worth I'd consider spending 400$ to fish Muskie with Mike....
Not sure why everyone is so down on Guides, My experiences have always been positive and have resulted in fish in the boat with the guide and afterwards..
I dont see millionare musky guides running around.....compare what the make to your favrorite pro athlete.... |
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Posts: 910
Location: Hastings, mn, 55033 | "CM ... so, a $40k gross business income with all the expenses required + a $25k - 30k teaching job is extreme? "
How did you read that into what I posted? Where did I ever say it was extreme or as others have claimed that guides are getting rich? In fact if you care to reread my post you'll see I clearly state I don't think they are overcharging nor are they getting rich. Its amazing how people read what they want into stuff! I also dont think they have it as rough as some would like to make it seem.
On another point, no fuzzy math involved, I was merely pointing out the other side to the whole expenses deal. Anyone who owns and operates their own small business knows about write offs and reducing taxable income as much as possible. They know the advantages to being able to do that. As with most things there are 2 sides to everything! Heck I know guys who live pretty well yet have a taxable income near zero, funny how that works!!
I was more or less playing devils advocate(as I often do) to counter some of this notion on here that guides are some sort of musky martyrs or musky theresa's.
For me it isnt a job I would do at $800 a day, because I would probably be doing LWOP before the end of the first season....just not a "people person"!! But I'm not going to feel sorry for someone that chooses it as an occupation either. |
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Posts: 910
Location: Hastings, mn, 55033 | by the way Steve, I do work alot of 7 day weeks. Have to in construction, work when the work is there and save for when it isn't, just one of those things when you choose seasonal employment I guess! I also pay full SS, self employment tax, commercial general liability insurance, insurance on work vehicle/tools&equipment etc. Believe me I know the math involved!
Edited by castmaster 1/8/2008 3:06 PM
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Posts: 32959
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I sure don't want anyone 'feeling sorry' for me when I'm guiding, but I also don't want anyone insinuatuing it's a walk in the park or a great way to make a killing. It's neither.
I choose to make it PART of how I get through my life, and have enjoyed the time on the water provided, made some lifelong friends, and paid a few bills in the process.
Hooper, what the heck are you talking about? If a Guide charges $400.00 and brought to the client what he/she represented the day would bring, then that's it. The opposite of your rather rude comment is more toward reality; if the Guide is doing well, has lots of bookings, and charges $400, or $350, or $500, then the clients must be happy. Hulbert can fish when he wants, and charge what he wants, that's part of the wonder of living in the good old USA. See how that changes if when he's 50 years old, he has a family at home, and Guiding is his only means of earning a living. If Mike likes 17 hour days 6 days a week for a couple hundred dollars, great. I'm too old for that, and I hope too smart. That said, yes, some folks get dawn to dusk. They earned it by being friends first and clients second, if you will. |
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Posts: 7115
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | Dumb question: if guides ARE making a good living (gasp!) working hard to help people to catch fish WHY IS THAT SUCH A BAD THING!!??? NO guides are getting rich doing it, but if they were, GOOD FOR THEM! If they're making a good living, then they're doing something RIGHT! If they charge too much for what they offer, no one will hire them, at in the least their business will suffer. Very few guides do much 'marketing' outside of working shows (which you attend), writing articles (which you read), travelling to give seminars (which they end up paying to get to, for the lodging, and they dont charge much anyways), or posting on the internet (which you read and learn from, FOR FREE I might add). Most of the business they get is through one of the above, or word of mouth. That word of mouth gives them the exposure necessary to even be considered for the major publications, helps to bring in new customers, and creates interest within the clubs to get them hired for seminars. If they do a poor job of entertaining the clients for a day on the water (which can be through fish action, learning, or just FUN. Remember FUN?) then they won't have that positive mojo going through word of mouth marketing.
I'm interested in why everyone gets so nutty about people making money off the muskie fishing business? a. no one is getting rich b. its a business c. no one is making any of you spend that money! People love to yell about people 'exploiting muskies' but these same people you're yelling at are publishing the articles you read, they're taking people fishing (which you like to do, dont ya?), they're helping to create the muskie gear you use. But that's bad?
Why should guides have to undervalue their services? I just dont get it. |
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Posts: 8865
| Dumb answer for Slamr's dumb question:
Why should a guide get paid to do the same thing we all spend money to do?? We work hard in our jobs, and they go fishing. Plus they get all sorts of free stuff... Free baits, free rods, free reels, nets, boats, trucks, trailers.. On top of it all they get to be on TV sometimes and then they get $350 - $400 a day to go musky fishing? I don't make that kind of money, why should THEY? It just ain't FAIR! All they have to do is fish and bring someone along, maybe let that person use their stuff, big deal! It doesn't take a lot of skilll to be a guide, heck all you need is a boat!
That about sum it up?  |
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| That about sum it up?
well...
the technical term for it is "relative deprivation". no one actually has an objective need to hire a guide, but they want to do so, and wants turn into perceived needs when you see something often that you want but aren't able to get.
my sense is that many people want to hire guides, but some of them are priced out of it, and don't like that fact. seeing guides/clients post pictures of big fish caught just makes it all the worse!
it's no different than seeing the ad for the new trucks on tv every year, or seeing the new boats at the shows every year: it makes you want something that you can't necessarily afford, and that's frustrating.
people who have money to burn and people who are barely getting by can each love muskie fishing just as much; but the people with more disposable income drive up the "demand" and therefore the price a guide can request.
accepting that there are certain things that are financially unavailable (especially things related to our favorite pastimes) is often difficult to accept - it's why America has become an indebted and credit-based society.
notably (and thankfully) in America, "fair" and "same" are not equal terms. we don't all have the same financial situation, but we do all have fair opportunity.
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Posts: 910
Location: Hastings, mn, 55033 | Slamr,
believe me it isn't just the muskie fishing business, its anytime folks who work for others "buy" something from a self employed person. I heard at least 6 times this summer alone homeowners tell me I'm making out like a bandit and how they should have gotten into the siding "racket" blah blah blah.
The best quote I have heard when it comes to these type of things was from a mechanic when talking about someone complaining about his hourly rate of $50. They had minor work done and when handed the bill said all he did was turn a few bolts. He then told them the rate breakdown went like this... $5 per hour for turning the bolts, $45 an hour for knowing which bolts to turn!
But like the saying goes "The grass is always greener....." |
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Posts: 32959
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Addict, funny as usual, sir. |
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Posts: 897
| I don't get this debate. Sounds like certain people are jealous that guides have the cahones to take a chance and make a living off of their passion. For those people, why don't you guide? More guides = more competition = lower prices. Capitalism at its finest. Just don't fish my lakes.
-Chris |
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| As a full-time guide let me say that some of you guys are WAY off.."78,000 a year"?? Thats crazy! Even if I did make 78,000 a year I would spend most of it on equipment to provide a better experience for my clients.
People are so greedy sometimes..The fact that I can now charge $350.00 a day pales in comparison to all the sacrifices Ive had to make to get to this point. I could list all the people that are partly responsible for helping me but M1st doesnt have enough room on there servers. Its down right ridiculous what I have to put up with sometimes, not to mention what the people around me have to deal with. Any half sane woman would of left years ago but yet my girlfriend has stood by me. Other people havent and Ive lost some very close and personal friends in exchange for my lifestyle. Ive worked 30,40 and even 60 day intervals without a day off..Think about working 40, 12 hour days in a row..I dont care if your a porn star, nobody wants to work like that..Yes, its all self inflicted, but its the price I have to pay to guide full-time..When the seaosn ends I have to update all my stuff for the shows, which isnt cheap and is very time consuming..Booths arent cheap either..This year Im on the road for 26+ days within 3 months doing shows. I am forced to drive a truck, so dont even get me started on gas..I am still semi new to guiding and until I get a solid customer base built up this is what I currently have to do to survive..
On the topic of part-time guides..I know several that I consider to be much better anglers than other full-time guides and are plenty justified in charging whatever they charge..Do your homework and its not to hard to find one or two for your area..
If you guys think that musky guides are bad, look into a full day guided trip for bass in florida..Some guides charge $600+
BTW- Whether or not you have a productive day with your guide is partly the clients responsibility..Ask questions and try to get as much information as possible. I tell all my clients straight up "if you book a trip for the sole purpose of catching musky, you might not get your monies worth" |
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Posts: 507
| Lots of good discussion here, and it seems to have run it's course.
Guides are businessmen.
Hiring a guide is a "contract" between you and the service provider.
If you don't like the terms and rates they offer, choose something else.
If you like the terms, hire one and enjoy.
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