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| Message Subject: MN 2007 Musky Reg's change!! | |||
sworrall |
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Posts: 32944 Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Muskie Symposium, 2006. Entire presentation and supporting paper ought to be there. | ||
| jclymer |
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| First, I want to thank the MN DNR for bumping up the limit to 48". I also want to thank the great guides on Mille Lacs (Jonesi, Ronnstrand, Thomas, Hammernick, Tauchen, etc) for releasing many giant muskies (this gives me that much more of a chance of catching one of these monsters again).. Mr. Worral you are correct, this was suppose to be a positve post, but I turned it negitive by posting about the pontooner in the first place.. I do not have the time to make changes between a fulltime job, working on my master's degree, wife and kid.. My spare time will be spent on the water or ice, not trying to make changes in the musky world.. Musky fishing is my hobby, not my living, so I guess I do not have the time to make any changes... All I have time to do is complain behind a computer screen at break time at work... Hopefully someone with more time will be able to address the issues... Mr. Worral, I do not have the time to coordinate and lead any changes, if someone wants some support, I would be more than happy to support improvements in any way that I can find time for.. | |||
| rpike |
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Posts: 291 Location: Minneapolis | Treats - I like your idea about making a quick-strike rig mandatory for any minnow longer than X". I think 8" would be a good maximum size for a single hook. Personally, I prefer suckers over 10" (LOTS over, usually), but sometimes Bob the Minnow Man only has little ones. What you're really looking for is what's the maximum size minnow someone might reasonably fish on a jig, because you want to keep that legal. | ||
| J Nail |
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Posts: 162 Location: Bemidji, MN | I found this one on circle hooks: http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=18131234 but it deals more with hooking efficiency. Here's a great Q/A sheet from WDNR, but the lengths need to be altered: http://dnr.wi.gov/fish/musky/Musky%20length%20limit%20faq.pdf The one in the symposium abstracts is here: http://muskie.outdoorsfirst.com/articles/02.20.2007/978/Abstracts;.... But, I still can't find where quick strikes are addressed. This one is also single hooks, and long-term mortality is like 83% Not good. BUT. I haven't dug deep enough to find a long-term hooking mortality study done with artificial lures. I am sure it is out there, but before you go pointing fingers at the bait guys, and changing regs, make sure your ducks are in a row, and no one has a study on long delayed artificial lure induced death. This 83% came from a study done at a hatchery, on small fish. If you look at actual growth and survival of muskies up to trophy size, I am willing to bet the farm that it is way lower than 83%. Point being, science isn't exact, the way you set up the experiment can serioulsly skew the outcome. I am all for CPR, but the reality of it is that we are also guilty of killing fish no matter how careful, and we don't want to regulate ourselves out of a sport all together. All we need is some bunny-hugger-peta-type with a bunch of cash doing a study on bucktail hooking mortality. My opinion is educate, don't regulate. You won't see me keep a musky unless I am 100% sure that it will settle the Louie Spray argument once and for all, but the reality of it is, some folks will, and by law they have the right (unfortunately). I hae seen the term "Golden Cow" thrown out there for muskies and I have to agree, so people do take it too far. I have a degree in fisheries management, and have learned a bit about the whole food web and nutrients cycle and all that good stuff ( I am not claiming to be an expert), and biologically speaking, there ARE good reasons to kill a large fish, because they become basically a stopping point for nutrients that are no-longer available to the system. BUT if the fish is removed, instead of being allowed to die and decompose, this can be bad too, because said nutrients are no longer available. It's a complex issue, and while I agree that Mr pontoon is doing a great disservice to the fishery, I can't agree with no-harvest at all. What happens when you over manage the fishery for big fish, and you can't stock little ones becasue the super-tankers suck the fingerlings down like spaghetti? Laugh if you want, it can happen. Any healthy lake system is based on a give and take economy, just like Minnesota's ridiculously large deer herds, no predaters = Bad! In the case of muskies, people are the predators. Ok, enough rambling | ||
| Guest |
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| Why not just use what Illinois has in place for more than three years as the same language you would propose in MN. The IL reg is quick strike on any live over 8 inches. The actual reg is located on-line at http://dnr.state.il.us/fish/digest/digest.pdf | |||
| sworrall |
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Posts: 32944 Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | jclymer, I wasn't intending to be critical of you and hope you didn't take my comments that way. I WAS pointing out that there are issues on waters in Minnesota very much like we have in Wisconsin, and that those issues will eventually command some sort of action if the trophy potential of waters like Mille Lacs is to be preserved. If one was to read posts elsewhere by a few MN and Canadian based muskie 'anglers', one would think MN experiences NO harvest of Muskies whatsoever. and yet, behold! The same people accused of uneducated and unnecessary harvest---the average guy who goes out on MN water armed with a single hook rig or 'trolling' on a pontoon and doesn't know any better--- is a problem on Mille Lacs. As in any program, the first step is to admit there is a problem. By posting that this problem exists, you HAVE done something positive; a discussion of the issues may just lead to positive action. I don't think there's any question that single hook rigs kill fish. Circle hooks are better, but still are unnecessarily dangerous to the fish. Quick Strike rigs are the way to go, and if all that needs to be done is get those on that launch with some CPR material, that won't require more regulation. Mike Roberts put that Q&A together during a VERY extensive project he and Norm Wild undertook to get the limit on Pelican Lake here in Oneida County WI raised to 50". I worked with them on that effort some, and am pleased to report that this spring when muskie season opens here, Pelican will sport a brand new 50"size limit thanks to Mike and Norm. A few concerned folks got together and worked for change, and in this case won the day. Several others who are regulars here have worked toward similar goals and have been successful despite our ridiculously complicated advisory system the DNR must deal with in order to make management changes. Wisconsin has a much broader history with Muskies than Minnesota, so we have experienced the complete timeline of muskie management. The beginning of the CPR mentality took hold here in the early to mid 80's, and we've made huge strides toward improved trophy opportunities as a result. It's getting better every day, thanks in part to muskie conservation groups and in part to enlightened management and the willingness to enter into the slippery slope landscape of engaging the public some of our fisheries managers across the state have exhibited. We are working here in Wisconsin to increase some waters to 54", some to 45", and some to 50". One water at a time backed by the full support of the local fisheries managers and our state DNR, and for good reason. We tried to get it done with a 50" limit on a large group of lakes and rivers, and failed miserably because educating the necessary number of people to get that regulation passed was not feasible. To be honest, we got our fanny handed to us on that first attempt. Bottom lining it, I believe that the muskie community is delighted to see the muskies in 47 water bodies in Minnesota protected to 48". Now local issues can and should be addressed, and that by those who know those issues best and can work within the social framework of the community to effect change. There are several folks over there who you can count on to try. That's the way it alway is it seems, a couple folks have the drive and make the time to represent the hopes and trophy desires of the rest of us. I recognize that, and applaud those people for the work past and future. I just wish more of the folks who are quick to the critical and even faster to the attack on this medium would step into the fray a bit more. Their participation adds power. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Now a Rant!: I've been thinking this over a little, wanting to make a point to the radical element on either side of the CPR issue. This has nothing to do with Minnesota or any place in specific. I'm just weary of the fringe elements pounding the virtual table and name calling while insulting the many who HAVE stepped up, all the while hiding behind the computer monitor and accomplishing nothing. All of us are in this together, for better or worse, and though we might have differing viewpoints on how to accomplish our goals, the fact you don't necessarily agree with one angler's view doesn't empower you to behave like a rude, unkempt punk. If the desire to accomplish trophy management is real enough for those individuals, one might think think they would be present at the meetings with the MNDNR, WIDNR, MNR, and with the public trying to effect change instead of roundly insulting those who were. I would have expected such stout supporters of trophy Muskie management to be at the recent Symposium, learning what it takes to get things done locally and on a North America wide basis. I would have expected to see those names at the round table discussions, the lake association meetings, the DNR/MNR offices near the waters they fish, and front and center working toward their goals even IF those goals are at the extreme fringe. Even if one is proven to be misguided in the end, working very hard to accomplish an end goal of better trophy management is far more laudable than sitting on the fringes spewing personal insults and obscenities. I challenge those who have taken that path---you know who you are--- to actually channel that energy in order to accomplish better trophy management in your area. If not, then you have no stake in the grand scheme, and IMHO, you should just plain shut your piehole and go fishing. | ||
| happy hooker |
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| Steve good rant!!! based on the turnout we get at publicly held dnr meetings here in Minn,,Minn muskie anglers dont deserve the fishery we have, Thank god for the MN dnr,,,"oh wait a minute" in most of these waters god didnt put em in the dnr did | |||
| Guest |
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| Here's a fact I heard directly from someone who makes their living in the muskie world, Kimm at the Medina show. The last DNR samples and population estimates on the Mille Lacs population (using as an example and related to a post from last week) the pop in the 132k lake is around 5,000 muskies. I was floored by this, based on stocking per acre ratios, but considering the source I know it is legit. So much for the fish per acre or two ratio, eh? You begin to think about the number of days a multi-line operation(s) is out, potential "kept" harvest, and it is an issue. A big issue. That is why the guides/anglers releasing monsters (they jump in 40 degree water to steer them on their way to a good release), passion around pontoon operations, "thump or not to thump" conversations, etc. all exist. That's why management is critical and 12 sucker/single hook operations is alarming, to say the least. Still, what they do is within the letter of the law. Bottom line it is not illegal, unless we as muskie purists make change happen. That's why all that's done is so impressive. Many people, AWH comes to mind for me, were encouraging emails to the Minn DNR a couple months ago on the 48 inch reg, so I sent one, and got a nice reply back from Backstrom at the DNR. Proved to me that every voice does count. Not patting myself on the back, but it may, just may have helped. I like the quick strike concept being mandatory for live bait rigs over "X" inches. My two cents......should we stop at 8 or 10 inches? What about the other exocids? Many of us often target pike and big 'eyes too and are not 100% muskie anglers, so as long as it's out there is a suggestion, why not work to enact regulations that protect more than just the muskie? Anything over 6 inches? Just throwing it out there..... Fun stuff, going to to a Muskies Inc banquet this weekend in the TC, will throw the topic around. Chris | |||
| Beav |
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| How far up The Mississippi River do they go? All the way to Bemidgi, I hope! Any increase across the board is a good thing in my opinion. I would love to also see a harvest stamp that was talked about once. You buy a stamp for $50 and you get to keep one a year, just for people who might catch that "fish of a lifetime". If the money went directly to stocking, I'd pay the $50 anyway. What happens if you have a sub-legal fish go belly up? Do you have to give it the deep six, or what? Beav | |||
| Chris H |
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Posts: 85 | Sorry, that was me with the last post, didn't realize I wasn't logged in as a "guest". I'm sure the 5000 pop in Mille Lacs will raise eyebrows, as it did mine. I thought of it this way....ever see Jonesi, Hammernick, Ronnestrand, Baldy, Tauchen etc trolling planers from Red Door to Isle? Heck no! Fish are related to structure, and most this particular lake is void of structure. Same would apply to Green Bay for example. North end of ML is miles long, but the productive water is a strip across it, not very wide, not very many square acres. The proverbial phrase of "shooting fish in a barrel" comes to mind, Lacs is a barrel and the fish, as Aerosmith would say the muskies are "Livin' on the Edge"! Chris Edited by Chris H 2/20/2007 7:13 PM | ||
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