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Posts: 757
| No, this is not about the civil war but rather a question in regards to a muskies life span and growth rates. I realize that a muskie in southern waters have a faster growth rate and a shorter life span, but why? Does water temperatures have an effect on growth rates and life spans? Muskies I believe live longer in cold deeper lakes than in shallow warm waters which leads me to my case study lake-Dale Hollow Lake in N. Tennessee. I've fished Dale Hollow years ago and I know it is a cold,deep, clear highland lake that supports a low population of muskies. Would muskies in this body of water have comparable growth rates and life spans to fish in the north? If so, Dale Hollow could really be a sleeper for a true giant. Kdawg |
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Posts: 2427
Location: Ft. Wayne Indiana | Our fish here in Indiana usually live to be about 12-13 years old. There are several reasons for this.
Our growing season is huge here, and there is also PLENTY to eat. Our fish grow very quickly, about 3-3.5 inches per year until they hit about 44-45 then it slows down. Their life span is sped up by the long growing season and the fact that they grow so fast. A fish stocked in Indiana will hit 45 inches YEARS and YEARS before a fish stocked in northern WI or MN will hit 45 inches.
Also, even though Dale Hollow is deep and cold, (below the thermocline) muskies in there will grow very fast as well as the water temps there exceed what we get here.
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Posts: 3
| Dale Hollow Lake Muskies
Dale Hollow Lake, straddling the borders of Tennessee and Kentucky, is one of America’s most beautiful outdoor destinations. Spanning nearly 27,000 acres, this deep clear reservoir has long been a favorite with fisherman.
Fisherman nationwide know Dale Hollow Lake as the home of the world record smallmouth bass, but relatively few anglers realize that Dale Hollow harbors trophy muskies as well. Musky were stocked in the lake in the 60’s, and have reproduced naturally ever since. While a few other lakes in the Southeast region may have a larger population of muskies, the average size of Dale Hollow Muskies is impressive, and the extremely low fishing pressure directed at this species means your shot at a trophy-class fish is better here than many well-known musky waters.
Although its possible to catch a musky at any time on Dale Hollow Lake, your best chance of hanging one of these elusive predators is in cold weather, from November to Febuary. Dale Hollow never ices over even in an unusually harsh winter, and there’s no closed fishing season. This makes Dale Hollow the perfect winter fishing destination for the avid musky hunter faced with “hard water” back home.
Musky fishing is done by motor trolling, in Freds' new 20' Triton, with a variety of lures and techniques. A Tennessee fishing license is required. THIS IS TROPHY MUSKIE FISHING ONLY AND ALL FISH MUST BE RELEASED AFTER PHOTOS ARE TAKEN. DIGITAL PICTURES WILL BE SENT TO YOUR E-MAIL.
IN-FISHERMAN called Fred Mc Clintock one of America’s best multi-species fishing guides. A native of Pennsylvania with over 40 years of musky fishing experience in Pennsylvania, New York, Kentucky, and Tennessee. IN-FISHERMAN called Fred a pioneer in the art of motor trolling for Muskies on a highland reservoir.
Indiana Muskie waters: MAYBE 6000 acres.
Dale Hollow: 27,000 acres.
Indiana Muskies Pressure: intense.
Dale Hollow: light
Indiana Muskies Reproduction: limited to the point of a non-factor.
Dale Hollow: no stocking, natural reproduction
Indiana Muskies Density: some of the highest in the muskie range.
Dale Hollow: low density
I think Indiana vs. Dale Hollow, TN. is like apples to oranges. So saying what is true in Indiana must be true in Dale Hollow is a little off base. Unless of course, you have been fishing down there. |
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Posts: 2427
Location: Ft. Wayne Indiana | I am not saying anything about our fish vs. fish in Tenn.
I am saying that the fish don't live long.
They grow fast, and die quick when compared to northern muskies in WI, MN and Canada.
That's all I was saying, let me say it again.
THEY GROW FAST AND DIE QUICK WHEN COMPAIRED TO MUSKIES THAT ARE FOUND IN NORTHERN LAKES IN MN, WI AND CANADA. There really is no down time for these fish. They can and do grow all year long. Their metabolism is high 90% of the year, so they eat, eat, eat and grow, grow, grow.
If you want to think there are 25 year old fish in Dale Hollow, then that's cool to. |
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Posts: 906
Location: Warroad, Mn | This is one of my "BST's", but here's what I think.
In general things that live in the north have bigger bodies (deer are larger in the north, moose are the biggest in Alaska, Kodiak bear are the biggest in the world etc.). This is because the bigger you are the more body mass you have compared to your skin area. This allows you to better hold heat in your body. If you live where it's cold this is a good thing. However, in warm climates higher body temperatures seem to stress both muskies and stripers, as they are cool water fish. The bigger you are the worse it is. Probably one of the reasons for short lives, and no world resords, and very few 40lbers out of the south. Most of the native muskies in the south where found in river systems, where they didn't have to deal with themoclines, and probably had lower water temps.
There are exceptions to this rule (Florida bass), but they generally are warm water fish.
What I've seen in most southern muskie fisheries is that water temps get very high in the summer. Even though there's a great deal of food the bigger the fish gets the more she suffers from the high water temps. Also the food isn't always available to the fish in the summer. Much of the food in southern lakes are shad, which are warm water fish. This means that in the summer when water temperatures are high the shad will be in the warm water, and the muskies, and other cool water fish will be stuck at the thermocline with little to eat. I've seen some photo's of fish caught in August of out of some southern lakes that are real slim, looks like they aren't eating well.
I suspect that it's a combination of large body size and high water temperatures that stress large fish and causes large southern fish to die before they get to world record size.
Probably pretty simplistic, but as I say it's one of my BST's.
When I see a tulibee kill related to warm water temps it's the biggest one that seem to die first, which would seem to back up my theory.
There's also some evidence on this with the stripers (cool water fish) in the Cumberland river system. The river system and the rivertine reservoirs (cooler water) are producing the largest fresh water stripers in North America. Lake Melton Hill in Tennessee also has these charastics and produces very large stripers.
Doug Johnson
Edited by dougj 2/18/2007 3:40 PM
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| Dr. Casselman's research on Ontario muskies showed that in order to successfully reach their ultimate size potential, a muskie needs moderate growth rates over a long life. notably, all the world's biggest fish have come from the northern parts of the muskie's range.
i'm not saying there aren't trophy fish in the south, there are, just that the lack of truly huge fish seems to support the belief that they aren't living long enough to reach their ultimate genetic size potential.
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Posts: 757
| Thanks guys for the responses. It seems that with warmer water temperatures ,the musky's metabolic rate would be high forcing them to follow their food source,which in the case of Dale Hollow would be Shad,and maybe carp. But let say hypothetically the Tenn. DNR were to stock a cold water food source like ciscoes,whitefish or trout. This could keep a certain percentage of muskies in colder water throughout the year with the exception of the spring spawn of course. Would this also increase the life span of the fish? Kdawg |
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Posts: 32885
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | From conversations I've had with fisheries folks, the jury is out on the idea that muskies will seek out the coldest water in a system. It may not just be the water temps available, it may partially be what the muskies seek out. Perhaps Doug's BST is on target. Mr. Neuswanger was talking about that a bit last night in the chat room. |
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| Excellent post Doug; yer theory makes perfect sense, as it is typical here considering the species involved. I'll PM you a site you might enjoy... |
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Posts: 3480
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Mike,
Any thoughts on the density of muskies in a given body of water in Indiana as compared to life span, size, etc? Pepperflake mentioned the stocking intensity and the density which made me curious on this possibility.
Steve |
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Posts: 2427
Location: Ft. Wayne Indiana | Not, it has to do with water temps, growing season, forage and short winters.
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Location: Athens, Ohio | Kdog, your assumption about Dale being a sleeper lake for giant muskies could be true. Except, a few years back, a well-known local smallmouth guide started telling folks that the muskies were eating all the smallmouth. Mr. McClintock and others have told me of numerous occasions where dead muskies would be found on shore - usually on islands - with damage to indicate they were intentionally killed.
Another reason not to compare Dale with Indiana - muskies have not been stocked in Dale since the 1960's; the ones there are products of natural reproduction. Indiana stocks muskies in their lakes.
Dale is a fantastic fisherie and I had the honor of fishing it for muskie with Fred. He learned muskie fishing in Pa. and brought his skills and knowledge to the South. To watch him put out all those lines, keep them separate, and get them all in was like watching a well-timed machine at work. He's had some health problems lately and I wish him well in his recovery. m |
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Posts: 572
| As Mike says.."it has to do with water temps, growing season, forage and short winters."
However, in Missouri it seems there may be a difference in the strain of muskies.
I believe the Kentucky strain was introduced in Pomme de Terre a few years ago. This strain appears to be doing very well and I expect to see more mid/upper 40" muskies this fall. There should be a good population of 38" to 43" muskies this year. Not sure if it's the strain or other conditions, but it's exciting to me.
I know others who share in my feelings about the Kentucky strain growing better than the northern strains stocked in the past. Perhaps, the northern strain needed colder water.
So, has any southern muskies been stocked in a northern state to see if the growth rate might be increased?
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Posts: 757
| Muskie Bob asked an interesting question about a Southern Strain fished being stocked up north. If a southern strain fish genetically, is to grow very fast and die quick, would stocking this strain of fish in a northern lake increase the life span? Could you have a fish that grows large very quickly during the warmer water periods but still have a "down time" during ice up? Kdawg |
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