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| I went to split rings for total piece of mind...I'm really not sure I trust a snap completely...I would never recommend putting any kind of snap on a quick set sucker rig as the hooksets just seem to jarring to me to trust any snap...use split rings and solid rings on your quicksets and watch out for store bought quick sets with crappy crimp jobs...
Also, for any of you that fish in cold weather...changing lures with snaps when your hands are freezing is a b*tch...that is another bonus of going to split rings....just a couple thoughts.... |
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| I've spent a lot of time with the split ring thing. They are NOT foolproof and I have a rad dog sitting on the bottom of LOTWs to prove it. The ring can catch on the wire and work its way off if you're not paying close attention; even a brand new ring can do that and the impending failure is less noticeable than an open snap. After using splitrigs for two years I'd say the potential failure rate is about the same as a stay-lock snap. Failures of decent snaps are 99% of the time a result not paying attention to them. If you don't pay attention to your split ring connections they can fail, too, as I've described above. My conclusion is that either is fine and you need to pay attention to both. I went back to stay-lock snaps because I don't need a split ring pliers to change baits. More time fishing = more fish in the boat.
As for dealing with the sharp cut ends of wire on the leader wire wraps, just squash the ends down with a pliers against the wire shaft or bend them back and forth to break the wire off instead of cutting it. Either method will result in a smooth leader.
As for the snap going bad on a sucker rig (the story at the beginning of the thread) I'd be any money it wasn't closed right. |
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Posts: 8856
| Look at a cheap snap (not a cross-lok, stay-lok, etc.)
If you slide the loop from your sucker rig up over the part where the snap fastens, and exert force where the line attaches, I'd be willing to bet that snap's going to open right up. Same thing will happen if you lower the rod tip and your weight flips the snap upside down.
Lower the rod tip, muskie's got the sucker T boned, set the hook, snap opens, straightens out and you're finished.
A stay-lok probably would have bent up pretty good, but I suspect it would have held up.
And like Sled mentioned -- if they're easy to fasten? Guess what, they're easy to open, too.
If I hadn't cut up my cheap snaps with knipex before I threw them out I could actually test my theory... |
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| Guest, I agree that the split ring leader deal can be a problem, particularly with gliders and jerkbaits like I said on page 1 of this thread... I'm really glad you posted that info because it supports my findings with those type of baits. I also witnessed a glider come off a snap leader and the wire work into the snap a few times first hand as well.
However, an exception might be with suckers like BN and Esox addict are saying though because when a muskie grabs the head of the sucker (or any lure) it could certainly open up a conventional snap, (not the super snap) I don't sucker fish much so I can't really say but certainly understand, and it's a very valid point.
Nothing in this world is 100% fool proof and the snaps with the long tag end are the best all around answer I could come up with for my style of fishing, for big baits the super snap is still the nuts though.
Guest said: "As for dealing with the sharp cut ends of wire on the leader wire wraps, just squash the ends down with a pliers against the wire shaft or bend them back and forth to break the wire off instead of cutting it. Either method will result in a smooth leader."
I would hope you can tell I know enough about leader making to understand that snapping off the tag end is the best (only) way, I get complements on my leaders and snaps from an good friend who's an orthodontist anyway: )
We've all had the line wrap around the end of the leader before and I'm telling you there is a sharp edge that will come in contact with your line... no matter how you "slice it".
I'm very confident I lost about a 4'er on LOTW in 1989 on a jig because of it, afterward I started to noticed wear on the line and matched it up to the line wrapping around the leader so I'm speaking from long experience here.
Check it out for yourself though, as you should, it's certainly not as big of a problem with the 80lb super lines of today as it was with the 30lb Dacron I was using back then.
BN, It's funny you should say that snaps are a harder to change than split rings because I find just the opposite to be true, so to each his own I guess. At least this way you are aware of the potential problem with the rings working off just as I'm aware of the potential of a snap opening up when a fish hits it.
I'm not trying to come off as a know it all here, however, I've certainly encountered and addressed these problems first hand and just not handing you guys something I read in an article.
Hopefully my troubles and solutions helps you in some small (or big?) way.
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Posts: 32952
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | The answer to this entire debate is really very simple, it just requires more work than most (including me) are willing to do. Attach a permanent leader to every bait you have, and when changing lures just tie a new knot. Really, what are we talking about for most days, 15 minutes of time tying knots at the most?
I did that with my creatures for years because there were no good snaps back then, it works. |
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| Steve, I actually did a direct leader with my "A" team many moons ago and still use a direct leader with a brush guard on my jigs like you say. I can tell you it was a royal PAIN for everyday casting for my style of fishing then... being more of a troller now, I can't even imagine the hassle of retying 6 trolling rods in WI in Nov.
Either way I have my answer... answered.
First things first, my answer for everyone here would be to watch your terminal tackle closely because it's the only thing between you and your trophy and my My most sincere recommendation would be to use a super snap when possible... or a quality homemade snap with a little arm guard deal to prevent inadvertent opening (if your worried)... or a thicker gauge wire leader and tight HD split ring to keep the leader from working itself off the ring (if your worried).
I just thought the snap/split ring problem should be addressed here on Muskiefirst so people can be made more aware of their options. All require mindful application so pick your poison because nothing is 100%,,, not even a direct leader.
(My bad... I see I accidentally said "snap" in place of "split ring" on my post above this morning).
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Posts: 194
| Guest, I have lost a couple baits to the bottom of the lake because of a split ring myself. That was before I started attaching them to the lure's eye on every bait. Then I work each one onto the leader. You don't have to pry them open quite as far so the ring stays closed and doesn't work off as easily. I don't even need split-ring pliers to change baits as long as I have some finger nails. I also have developed a habit of checking the ring/leader connection about 15-20 casts. Just in case. What kind of split ring do you use? Some split rings flat out suck. Others are good. For me the #7 Bucher rings have worked well.
Brad, I'll try and bring a Super Snap to CCMI on the 11th. You might change your mind if you saw it in person. I still use split rings on my lures though. |
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Posts: 802
| here's my remedy- i have wolverine split rings on all my lures, but my system has a twist... some folks argue that the leader wire could work it's way thru the split ring end, and i agree. what i do to negate that is tie my leaders with a sampo solid ring on both ends (one to tie onto and one to connect with the split ring. now i have a low-profile leader, but one that won't let the wire slide out of the split ring. been fool-proof for years.
steve |
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Location: 31 | Bam! I like Esox69's idea a ton... it makes perfect sense to me to use a thicker material so there's less chance of the leader slipping threw the split ring. Nice work!
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| Jerry
Good point about the nail polish...i've been using small shrink tube with an adhesive on the inside....dip it in hot water. works good to cover that sharp "line grabber" part of the barrel...i was having this problem with gliders and jigs also. u can also color code it too.
baldy posted the pic and the directions..it's that easy....it really is. |
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Location: 31 | Thanks G, the polish is fast and easy for my leaders and most importantly does the job. The bottom line here is to try to try to keep those muskies from swimming away with a face full of hooks from a broken line or failed terminal tackle. One can only hope?
I actually have a good friend coming by tomorrow wanting to learn how to make snaps and watch the game as a direct result of him losing what could have been his first 50" last year on a broken, brand new (1 hour old) large Berkeley cross lock snap... it just broke. The jerkbait floated back up so no harm no foul there, and hard to feel too sorry for him because he ended up the year with 4-50's:)
Anyway, I'm heading downstairs now to tie up some bucktails (yes dear, after vacuuming) and I was going to play around with a couple of split ring leaders like Esox69's method as well... see which system he likes better tomorrow. I'm pretty well set with the snaps I make and use, but I think both methods are light-years ahead of anything you could buy in a store.
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Posts: 802
| thanks jerry- i can't claim it to be my idea, nor recall who told me about it- regardless, it's a sweet system. thorne bros had the rings in 2 different sizes i believe: either that or i pirated them off some of my other swivels!
good luck,
steve |
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