|
|
Posts: 45
Location: Appleton, Wi | I have been trolling lately for muskies using planer boards.
Lately I have not been able to hook the fish that have hit the lure behind the board.
Checking the lure there are bite marks in the front of the lure.
Are the fish blind and can't see or do we need to speed up or slow down?
Any thoughts. The hooks are sharp!!! |
|
| |
|
Posts: 3242
Location: Racine, Wi | They normally hook themselves when we're trolling. I think the biggest reason I see when people loose fish on board rods (of course, this never happens to me  ) is they start jerking the rod trying to set the hook, or even trying to pump it in. This puts lots of slack when you have a board on there. The other thing is, try to keep the boat in gear until you have the board off, then you can put it in neutral and finish up the fight. Those seem to be the top 2 reasons I see when we loose fish on a board rod. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 45
Location: Appleton, Wi | We have left the motor in gear, and have not jerked or set the hooks.
It seems they are off before I can get the rod all the way in my hand |
|
| |
|
Posts: 2024
| Sounds like the fish are just nipping at the bait. Not much you can do about that. Just make sure the hooks are lazer sharp, maybe even upsize them. You also might try tightening the drag more, especially with that board on there. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1530
| one thing. what releases are being used. sometimes a little deeper in the clip can set the hook deeper |
|
| |
|
Posts: 34
| My 2 cents....hooks are not sharp enough! have to be razor sharp!......drag is too loose!......run a tighter drag! with slow fall trolling speeds hook ups need to be solid and tight......use a softer fiberglass rod to absorb impact of fish strikes.....and go with a tighter drag setting.....check your releases and take a wrap around if needed.......this should help...........good luck! |
|
| |
|
Posts: 20263
Location: oswego, il | Hooks are very important. I have found thick 4x hooks won't hook up well while trolling. I have lost too many fish using them. I like light wire hooks for better hook penetration. Are you using superline? I think no stretch lines can pull a lure from a fishes mouth. I personally like a looser drag even with a planer board. My hookups are very good and this is what works for me. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 5874
| Owner hooks work great! Extremely sharp out of the box, they keep trolled fish pinned up pretty good. Only lost one fish this fall, and that was Wade's fault! |
|
| |
|
Location: 31 | I don't think you should have to change the speed you found the fish at, not for a second. As you said the hooks are sharp and my guess is you have already checked and rechecked the hooks, so this important consideration is crossed off the list already.
IMHO if the fish are leaving teeth marks on the front of the bait they are hitting the lure pretty darn good already and generally speaking not nipping at it. When I'm getting action on the front like that I normally tighten down the drag even more because the crankbait lip can get in the way of an other wise clean hook-up. I associate "nipping" more toward the rear of the bait and generally run lighter drags when I notice this happening.
The planer boards (assuming in-line?) certainly complicate the issue because your not going to get good of a direct hook-up like you would with a lure running directly behind the boat. The problem is that not getting hooks in the first place and some of the suggestions posted are certainly good ones, however, maybe a couple more will help remedy the problem.
As already posted you can affix the line directly to the in-line board by wrapping the line around the release clip before clamping, of course then you must manually remove the board from the line while (hopefully) fighting the fish. There are pros and cons with this method but generally speaking when I'm running in-line, this is my preference.
However, the slickest maneuver is to turn the boat away from the side with the strike and gas the motor. With a typical kicker this is easy, with a bigger motor you have to be careful not to give it too much gas. I do this all the time at all speeds so i have a regular routine on a rip. It is a "must do" when fishing slowly and with any type of board set-up IMHO. I also run tighter drags with boards and/or while moving slowly because I want "hooks" first.
A little something I learned about mast systems:
I was running the Otter board mast system the last few years and just switched to a catamaran board this year. Reason is because the cat boards run almost directly parallel to the boat vs. the Otter boards (with less bite) run slightly behind the boat. The cat style also keeps the mast board line as tight as a drum so when a fish grabs the bait you hear a nice "ping" as the line is pulled from the release. This is certainly a better system than the Otter and in-line boards for getting early hooks.
Another thing I do is to use the heavy downrigger clips on the mast systems so there is a good snap (hook-set) when a fish grabs hold of the bait. You may want to consider a mast system over the in line for this reason alone, and frankly you'll also discover how much more efficient the rigging will be too.
I was running the mast in the lower Fox with a friend a couple weeks ago (what a mad house) and noticed almost everyone trolling with in-line. After I found some fish on the edge in 10-12', I promptly removed the mast and went with 5 lines directly behind the boat in that 10-12' zone so I could concentrate the lures on the edge. A by-product was the other boats with their boards had to move out because I had the undisputed inside track... just another option to think about if faced with a similar situation. Wow, where did this book come from? Dinner time.... hope something here helps? |
|
| |
|
Posts: 155
| I agree with Jerry ,Most fish are right under the boat.No need for all the crap...Just don,t need a great lakes spread .. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1530
| the bigger boards are best in big water. if you tried small boards in lake chop of 2-3 ftrs good luck. big boards also keep lines taught in ruff water. after over 30 years running them there really is no subsitute. big baits or small never an issue. my big boards are cyprus 13 inches across and 36 inches overall. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 34
| Woodieb8 is right the mast system and the big boards are the way to go on big open water. I run Offshore OR-8 hvy tension releases with the mast system and usually run a fairly loose drag on the board rods. The OR-8's set the hook quite well if you place the line far back into the pads. I also ran the mast system on the Fox River this year and we did catch fish on the boards out there. However not enough room and too many other boats. I will switch to in-line boards when we return to the Fox. With the in-line boards and fall trolling speeds you will want to tighten down the drag on your reels. Just my opinion....good luck!!!! |
|
| |
|
Posts: 688
Location: Northern IL | Newman,
How was the season?
Bob, if you are getting strikes then stay with the speed and stay with the depth. However if I was to do anything it might be to go faster and see what happens.
The fact is some days the fish hit more accurately than others, no big deal, go tomorrow. Things will change.
Jerry Borst
Spoonplugger/Instructor |
|
| |
|
Posts: 412
Location: Waukesha, WI | with a mast setup, is there a way of avoiding or reducing fouling baits and the side planers with free floating surface weeds? Is there an initial hookset on the release and another when the extra line is taken up? |
|
| |
|
Location: 31 | Perfect drift, I think there is a time and a place for all the different types and ways to present lures... including holding the rod and bouncing the bottom. Speaking of that... hey JB, how's it going? The last thing I want to do is debate a spoonplug instructor on trolling. But... 
If the fish is hitting the front of the bait don't you think it has a pretty darn good bead on it then? I understand that some times they just hammer it, but generally when I'm getting them hitting the front of the bait (or let's get real here... just hitting the dam bait) I'm a happy guy. Finding a way for Ranger to get hooks on those fish before the rapidly closing season ends would make me even happier. Speaking only for myself here, sometimes speeding up is not a good option like when trolling Quikfish and topwaters.
I think woodie is the thread authority here on mast rigging with his 30 years experience, his point on keeping the line taught in rough water is without question absolute. I would like to hear any additional input he might care to offer here on rigging tips, ect.
Basically the only time I run in-line boards is when I just want one bait out, and then usually it's over open water while I scrub the edge with the remainder of my lures. My focal point above with the Otter, cat and in-line boards was the difference in board line tension (and a stiff release clip) and how a "loose line" could possibly effect why Ranger was missing those fish.
I'm fairly new to mast systems but a good pop when the fish grabs the bait is critical to me with a toothy muskie, certainly more so than with other fresh water species IMHO. It makes perfect sense that the better you pop em' in the beginning the better your percentages of getting those oh so important early hooks.
Boat rod, maybe just try running your mast boards tighter to the boat next time, that's what I did anyway. The baits really fly out there on those shorter steeper mast lines... zing, zing and their set. I had some trouble with the furthers release clip getting hung up out on the end of the line because I wanted that bait as far out as possible on the short set-ups. I ended up cutting the mast lines and putting 1 fender washer on each mast line before reattaching the rig... problem solved.
One more... the best way I've found to keep weeds off the baits in a mast set up is to drop the release clip down into the water so helps to fend off the weeds. If your running baits in the center you'll have to lengthen the distance between the snap and the release because the mast line is higher from the surface of the water. You'll need several releases in the range of 4-7' depending on how far out you run your boards. A cool bonus is you also have less line out and a more direct angle to the lure and fish. Less line out is always better for this child... wow another book. Goodnight all.
Oh, and that's a good question on when they get hooked, I have no idea (and it's past my bed time...  |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1530
| a couple more tips for boards. . if your using actual planer board line run wax on the tow line releases slip down easier. as for release clips shower curtain rings are weak. buy a cheap metal stringer and use those clips used to hold your fish. thet are strong. its disapointing to see clips go ker-plunk. also as many do here you can run a inline siker ahead of your baits to achieve more depth less line out. another easy weedproblem fix for floating weeds is to attach what we call weedeaters ahead of your lure. i normally attach at the mainline to 5 ft leader. i use a 6 inch piece of weedwhacker lawn trimmer line. overhand knot it inthe loop put it on your swivel. theres a tab of 1 1/2 inches on each side of the loop. weeds follow hit the loop and slide off of the tab on either side letting lures run weed free longer. i hope this also helps you out. |
|
| |
|
| Cool stuff... like I said I've only been running the mast for a 3-4 years and even then it's not every time out so any tips to make it more efficient are really welcome. I like to tinker with this stuff at home to (hopefully) optimize production on the water... gives me something to do while I day dream about the next muskie outing too.
I like the wax idea Woodie and will definitely try it on the toe line cuz it's a hassle get the bait out there on a wide spread sometimes... time is money... or er... fish eh'.
I've stayed with the big snaps that came on the downrigger releases and haven't dropped one release yet. Maybe that's why I've been having some difficulty running the baits down the toe line with a wide spread too then... don't know. Like I said in the post above, those shorter spreads on the boards allow the baits to just fly down the toe lines. What's the widest spread you'll run Woodie?
BTW, I eye balled those cheesy undersized mast board attachment snaps and barrel swivels after seeing how hard the cat boards pulled and made my own super HD snaps with some giant ball bearing swivels while putting on those fender washer stops. Sounds like I might be making some giant snaps for the release clips if the wax isn't enough.
Also, it's easy to make some extensions for longer release line clips for fending off weeds and a more direct line hook-up... it's a simple deal with a snap on one end and a loop on the other end. I personally don't like those weed grabbers near the bait and have attached an 8/0 treble to the release clip before when I needed to. I'll have to try the overhand knot deal with the weed wacker cord on the release clip in place of the treble hook... sounds easy and I'm sure it works well.
Most times the release clip in the water keeps the weeds off the baits plenty good for me. It does bug though when I bring in a bait with weeds on it and always wonder how long they were on there... and if it costs my boat a fish. Then again I don't want to be constantly checking baits either so some reasonable assurance the bait is running clean is a very important consideration. Dropping the release clips in the water is standard operating procedure anymore... "woodies loop" might be a permanent attachment on there now too
Enough for now...back to that pesky work thing... thanks for the tips.
|
|
| |
|
| Try using 20-30# mono with boards instead of super lines. It's much more forgiving. You can buy a decent Okuma line counter for $30. Load two (or four) of them up with mono and throw them on your trolling rods for boards only. |
|
| |
|
| Guest...whoever he is....is exactly right...in another thread, I wrote something of that nature...that most of the good trollers I knew were running mono on their boards. IMHO I think that with the superline, there is an instant where the board jumps "back" at the fish for just a split second...this is when you lose most of your fish. On the other hand, when you're running mono, it sticks, and it "slowly" buries in the fishes mouth....giving you a hook-up.
I run the boat rods with superlines...not sure if it is any better....BUT, whatever...who knows!
Just my $.02 cents worth.
Donnie |
|
| |
|
| Donnie, I'm a little confused with this philosophy of wanting to slowly getting hooks with the mono because this is exactly opposite of what I try to do. I run medium action 8' rods, the large Sealines and 80lb super line and want a good "pop" when a fish grabs the bait off the tow line.
I was a pure caster for almost 20 years and still apply the same principles I learned while casting (most the hard way) to trolling. I'm aware most St. Claire area trollers run light drags, hooks and mono and it works extremely well for them. I'm also aware most of the Ottawa river trollers run super tight drags, heavy hooks and super lines and it works well for them too. Who's right? Maybe both? I sure don't know... just know what works well for me.
My question would be if the mono and slow hooks is such a good thing... why not use it while casting too? I'm very curious in what your (or anyone's) thoughts are on this subject. |
|
| |
|
| I troll Lk St Clair for muskies and almost never lose a fish. I use a mast with big boards and I let out almost all the planer line for a wide spread. I use 50 lb Magnathin mono with 100lb flouro leaders and offshore downrigger releases, the ones with the double thick springs that are difficult to pinch open.I put the line just past the halfway point of the pad. I set the drag medium tension, troll 3.5-5mph and dont set the hook. Just reel them in. I can say with confidence that I land 80 or 90 % . On the other hand casting I land less than 50%.I use superline and set the hooks and all that but I lose a lot of fish. I dont get it. P.S. I put a treble 6 ft in front of the lure to help catch weeds, but when its really bad nothing helps and all you can do is leave that area and go look for clean water. Hope that helps. Sam Zeoli |
|
| |
|
Posts: 34
| All I ever run on my board rods is mono. 40lb Berkely Big Game. 80lb Seaguar Flouro leaders. The thicker dia mono stays in the release pads much better then superlines which are quite slick to the touch. Therefore the mono gives you a much better hook set.
I have ran the mono on my boat rods and down rods and it works well in all positions. I have never lost a musky on the mono after several years of fishing with it. (I probibly will now that I said that LOL!) I use the mono in open water trolling applications.
I switch to superline (80lb Power Pro) and 3' wire leaders when structure fishing. Anytime you will be making contact with the bottom, rocks, weeds, wood, stumps etc...you are better off with a more abrasion proof line. I also use the superline when trolling big baits like the 10" and 12" Franky Baits, Perrywinkles, Plows as well.
With the mast system and big boards we run a very wide spread. Sometimes as far as 75' out on each side of the boat. This is an open water application. While on the Fox we shortend the spread substantually.
Thanks for the tips on the wax and the fender washers. Good stuff I will be sure to put to use. Heres a few tips I can share with everyone. With the mast system you can add a large spring (like on your storm doors at home) between the tow line and the board itself to help your boards track better in heavy chop. This works increadibly well and has increased the amount of strikes we get off the boards in the rough stuff. All you do is clip the tow line into one of the eyes of the spring and attach the other end to your boards with a key chain type split ring. You can find the spring and the keychain rings at the hardware store for just a few bucks.
Tip two I learned from a Great Lakes charter Capt. and it will work well for those of you who run in-line boards and like to run a loose drag. It requires the use of a heavy duty rubber band. After you set your line you take the rubber band and choke it off to your main line just above where it comes out of your reel. Then you take the loop on the other end of the rubber band and loop it around your reel handle to secure it. What this does is act like a secondary release to set the hook and you will be able to run a looser drag setting on your reel without line slipping out. In the event that a dink hits and doesnt brake the band you simply brake it with your hand and continue to fight the fish. You can reel the rubber band up into the reel without a problem and take it off when you reset.
Keep the tips coming boys! This is turning out to be an informative thread!.......... |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1530
| mono is great for boards and trolling. big game 50 with a 60lb leader 5 ft long. one thing i forgot to mention. we use charters choice rods. its a shakespeare tiger rod blank.. it has a soft tip with plenty of backbone. 7 footers.. on calm days we run boards up to 100feet out each side. one thing to consider may be trivial but if you run 3 lines per side remember the closest line to the board is running deeper due to angle from boat to board.. we also add rear weight on each skie to help the board run on an angle to keep the board slightly higher at front.. also if you run home brew boards slip plastic tubing over the rods holding the boards together. this helps for weeds to slide odd the threaded rod. good thread guys very intresting |
|
| |
|
Posts: 34
| Rodger the rear weighted boards Woodie. Ours are home brew boards made of Redwood and are rear weighted to ride over the big choppers as well. They are built to be collapseable for storage and have no hardware on the bottom side so they do not pick up much if any weeds. If anyones interested in the custom boards PM me and I will put you in touch with the guys who make them. The Kauchman springloaded mast reels are also nice option. If you are in the market for a mast system I highly recomend them. They automatically pick up the slack in the tow lines and when you are ready to pull in the boards you simply steer the boat twords one board and the reel does the rest for you. Pick the board out of the water and steer twords the other board pick it up and you are ready to go. No need to ever reel in the tow lines at all. They can be bought from Rivera / Off Shore or check Walleye Central........... |
|
| |
|
Location: 31 | Wow, and I thought I was way out there last weekend with 60' too... This is great... learned and learning lot's of the tricks and nuances with masts that will help. Hey... and perfect timing on those mast springs Boatrod... I'll be removing 3 screen doors for a customer in the next couple weeks so no cost to get hooked up with em' I have the redwood boards now and interested in the way you determine when and how a certain amount of weight is needed.
I would consider the Riv mast if I didn't already have the Big Joh already (plus the X-$) custom fitted with the same locking base plug as the front pedestal seat. I don't mind cranking in the boards that much... but refuse to crank up the downriggers! Downriggers and sliders... a topic for another day.
Getting back to the mono vs. super line for a second... I use the large line counter Sealines with 80 Tuff-line XP for a variety for different trolling applications... almost all of which include the no stretch and thinner diameter properties as part of my approach. I also enjoy the extra comfort of not having to worry about line breakage and the re-tie thing everyday... with all 6 of these reels spooled the same I know precisely ( ok, ok within a foot or 2) what depth my baits are running with a certain amount of line out now.
With the Cannon downrigger release clips I use it's a rare thing to drop a bait, when that does happen I make a loop in the line and reattach the large pad of the downrigger clip directly on the loop. I know I'm out numbered here with the mono and I'm certainly not trying to get anyone to fix something that isn't broken on St. Clair... but this system works extremely well for me and my style of fishing. This is for the people who don't live in MI:)
Oh a little $ saving tip if you do go that way... I use the same line for casting so when the trolling reel line gets short (I fill em' up with 500' to start with) I spin the remaining good portion onto my casting reels. Super line is IMHO... super.
I was contemplating "Woodie's loop" and the thought occurred to me to put one at the release clip and another then one at the leader if needed... just another option to consider when the floaters are getting the upper hand next year next year Sam.
Listen guys I really appreciate the impute and have tried my best to give some back here... it's great when people who don't even know each other can fold their experience together like this and help themselves while helping others. If your new or are considering a mast system just jump in and just ask a Q, we were all at that point at one time or another eh'.
Poker and beer tonight boys, sorry so sloppy but got to run. Cheers.
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 1185
Location: Wishin I Was Fishin' | Keep the n line boards closer to the boat, the further they are away, the more they can give when a fish hits.
The brand and style of hook is very important. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 45
Location: Appleton, Wi | Thanks for all the info. I learned alot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
|
| |
