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Posts: 71
| I am interested in this boat but I called a dealer and they said there were only 3 of them made. Where can I see this boat? I saw on another post the boat was low to mid thirties. For a 90hp Tiller!!! Are you kidding me? My Ranger was only 34 less than a year ago and that was with a 200 and big screen color Lowrances front and back. I really want a tiller boat and I like the Ranger but they have gone up substantially as well. I think Tuffy has a good thing going in their new offerings and hope the progress continues.
Pete Katschke |
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| The 1890 T boat, motor, and trailer ( trailer is a custom tandem axle, brakes, spare, carrier, and swing tongue)with stainless prop and rigging is about 30K. Add the toys, it's low to mid thirties. 19' class tillers are going to be in that range or higher these days. This is a brand new model, so not many tiller 1890s are out there yet. Once tiller driving muskie anglers see this boat in action, that will change.
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Posts: 71
| Tuffy,
Why is the HP rating on the Tiller model so conservative? Can this boat be rigged with a 150 w/ power steering? |
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| It's not conservative at all, it actually barely makes the 90 HP rating based upon it's dimensions. Just over 95 HP to be exact which would technically allow a 100 HP rating. The only place manufacturers have any leeway or discretion on tiller HP ratings are on boats over 20 feet. Otherwise, Coast Guard HP ratings must be applied.
Hydraulic steering add-ons do not affect the "under 20 foot" tiller HP ratings in any way. Until the Coast Guard changes thieir language on this, any responsible manufacturer would never try to apply their own definitions of remote steering to this class of boat.
Remote steering means a steering wheel, period. Tiller hp ratings take into account not only the ability to easily control the engine (which hydraulic assists help) , but the ability to perform accident-avoidance manuevers (which hydraulic assists do not help) and your seating position in a tiller, which can cause obstructed field of vision (which hydraulic assists do not help). |
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Posts: 99
| Just wondering how does Warrior get away with it? The 18' tiller is rated I think for 140hp |
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Posts: 3518
Location: north central wisconsin | In my opinion(again, my opinion), it is much easier to avoid an accident, coolision, or structural bump with a tiller than a steering wheel, and why I will not own anything but. They are just plain easier to control. That said, the biggest tiller I've run is a 115 on an older 680 Ranger. No problem there without steer assist, but I could see a 150 being a bit more of a load to steer at higher speeds. Just wonder, as the above guys, why tillers are not available with bigger motors. How fast does the 1890 go, maxed out? Cannot wait to see the 1890T designed like the low profiles. Hopefully the front deck is not too 'huge' and there is something available in back. I am excited about this boat. One question, everyone says that no one can compete with Rangers Layup process in building fiberglass boats. What does Tuffy do to stand apart, or keep up with the 'jones' in boat building regards. thanks in advance.
Edited by Reef Hawg 10/22/2006 5:41 PM
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| Moreyes, that's an excellent question. We think they are counting the Warrior 'feather steer' as 'remote' steering, which the USCG has rejected in the case of the Mertens system; it makes no sense that this would be considered superior to the Mertens, which we install on our 2060 T rigged with anything over 140 HP. 'Remote' steering, according to our USCG Compliance specialist, means a wheel. As long as we cannot get that classification on the Mertens, the USCG maximum HP will be determined by the USCG tiller formula.
The build schedule on a Tuffy Esox Deep V is 13 layers of the highest quality hand laid lamninates and resins, and incorporates a kevlar spine in the composite used in the hull. We don't see where there is anything in the competing fiberglass brand's laminate schedule that is 'better' than what we are doing at this point. Keep in mind Tuffy has been building fiberglass Muskie specific designs since the mid 1970's. Many of the features you see today in competing brands Tuffy pioneered over the last 30 years including Muskie sized 60" livewells, removable rear deck modules, and rod lockers that would take a Muskie rod. The Esox and Esox Magnum were designed 'Muskie Only', and still fill a large portion of our production schedule every year.
The front deck on the 2060 EDV and 1890 EDV is designed for 8.5' to 9.5' rods to fit in the center load rod locker, something the Muskie anglers told us they wanted. Also, we understood that all three anglers want to be elevated and fishing from a deck in the front or rear. The front deck of all the DV platforms will fish two easily, and the rod locker will handle 14 rods in a system that keeps them safe and organized. We were told the cockpit needs to hold a Frabill and a couple large tackle boxes plus three anglers, so that's how we came up with the interior. The rear deck module will accept a ton of tackle in gull wing access storage, and the deck is easy to install or remove in a couple minutes with a socket wrench.
Top speed with a 90 HP on the 1890 is mid to upper thirties, and with a 150 on the 2060, low 50's. |
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| That said, the biggest tiller I've run is a 115 on an older 680 Ranger. No problem there without steer assist.
lol, Jason. the tiller rating on that 680 is only 60hp.
as you know better than me, the one you're talking about was a console version that he home-rigged to run as a tiller. it may have run just fine, but his insurance agent might not agree if he ever hits something/someone with his non-USCG-compliant boat...
if you want to go real fast, buy a console with the big motor. if you want the open layout, get a tiller and realize that 30-35mph is still plenty quick.
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Posts: 3518
Location: north central wisconsin | I realize that it is not the rated motor. Point was that it handles great with that motor. I go 30 now, and it is not quick enough alot of the time. That is why I am looking into the bigger rigs, which allow for the bigger motors. Won't settle for a console, and its' waste of space just for a few extra mph though. I do agree with you and I will sacrafice the speed for space, and settle for whatever comes on the tiller I choose. The ratings are obviously there for a reason, and I'd surely abide by them.
Insurance agent???? I doubt he has one....LOL.. |
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Posts: 99
| Tuffy Boats - 10/22/2006 11:07 PM
Moreyes, that's an excellent question. We think they are counting the Warrior 'feather steer' as 'remote' steering, which the USCG has rejected in the case of the Mertens system; it makes no sense that this would be considered superior to the Mertens, which we install on our 2060 T rigged with anything over 140 HP. 'Remote' steering, according to our USCG Compliance specialist, means a wheel. As long as we cannot get that classification on the Mertens, the USCG maximum HP will be determined by the USCG tiller formula.
The build schedule on a Tuffy Esox Deep V is 13 layers of the highest quality hand laid lamninates and resins, and incorporates a kevlar spine in the composite used in the hull. We don't see where there is anything in the competing fiberglass brand's laminate schedule that is 'better' than what we are doing at this point. Keep in mind Tuffy has been building fiberglass Muskie specific designs since the mid 1970's. Many of the features you see today in competing brands Tuffy pioneered over the last 30 years including Muskie sized 60" livewells, removable rear deck modules, and rod lockers that would take a Muskie rod. The Esox and Esox Magnum were designed 'Muskie Only', and still fill a large portion of our production schedule every year.
The front deck on the 2060 EDV and 1890 EDV is designed for 8.5' to 9.5' rods to fit in the center load rod locker, something the Muskie anglers told us they wanted. Also, we understood that all three anglers want to be elevated and fishing from a deck in the front or rear. The front deck of all the DV platforms will fish two easily, and the rod locker will handle 14 rods in a system that keeps them safe and organized. We were told the cockpit needs to hold a Frabill and a couple large tackle boxes plus three anglers, so that's how we came up with the interior. The rear deck module will accept a ton of tackle in gull wing access storage, and the deck is easy to install or remove in a couple minutes with a socket wrench.
Top speed with a 90 HP on the 1890 is mid to upper thirties, and with a 150 on the 2060, low 50's.
That is to bad about the Mertens, oh well I guess that is why I have training wheel in my 1890 Osprey |
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Posts: 71
| Personally I can't go from 200 Hp to 90. I know Tillers just fish better, that's why I want one but I just can't sacrifice 30 MPH on the waters I fish. Given the choice I wouldn't follow the Max hp RECCOMENDATION. especially if there is no limit on boats over 20 ft. As though the visibility is so much worse on a boat 14" shorter. I don't go fast enough close enough to other people or property to worry about insurance concerns. |
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Posts: 5874
| Griz619, do me a favor, and don't take any of my friends out in your boat. You have just proven you are too irresponsible to be trusted with their well being. My guess is you probably don't bother with insurance, because you don't have to worry about needing it!
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Posts: 2
| May get a new boat and the 1890T is on my list, trouble here in Minnesota there are only 3 dealers and none of them have this boat, hard to buy when you can not see the boat. What kind of trailer do tuffys sit on? sure wish they still made the kae dee shallow launch trailer, those were sweet. looking at 1890 warriors, 2010 Lund guide, and 680t rangers, and would for sure get the mertens system. |
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| The easy answer is if you want to go fast in a tiller, buy one over 20 feet. The Rangers and Tuffys and others 20 footers are all rated for at least 150 hp with the Merten's system installed, and they all go fast.
On the boats under 20 feet, every single boat company follows the coast guard tiller hp rating except for one. The one that doesn't also has the inferior of the two available hydraulic assist units installed according to most people I've talked to, and based upon my own experience. So, I think the question we have to ask ourselves in not why the other manufacturers, who also use a superior hydraulic tiller system, follow the rating, but why the other one doesn't? |
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Posts: 71
| Tiller Guru,
You have a very good point and I will likely get the Ranger 620T.
Shep, I don't need insurance I paid cash for my Ranger and carry an umbrella coverage for large liabilities. Besides, you can't hurt Imaginary friends. |
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| With a 150 Yamaha and the Merten's I assume? |
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Posts: 5874
| Pretty sure your umbrella coverage wouldn't be worth much if you ignore the recommended max HP on the boat, should you get in an accident. But you got it all figured out, so I wish you luck. |
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Posts: 99
| Dave in Walker - 10/30/2006 9:30 AM
May get a new boat and the 1890T is on my list, trouble here in Minnesota there are only 3 dealers and none of them have this boat, hard to buy when you can not see the boat. What kind of trailer do tuffys sit on? sure wish they still made the kae dee shallow launch trailer, those were sweet. looking at 1890 warriors, 2010 Lund guide, and 680t rangers, and would for sure get the mertens system.
Trailmaster |
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| Dave,
The Trailmaster trailer can be equipped with a shallow water launcher system that is very similar to the system K-DEE used. It's true Tuffy has three dealers in Minnesota. We are working on a few more and should be able to close at least one or two, hopefully one in your area. We need at least one more, but do not want to be in a situation where we cannot meet demand, either. Tuffy was basically built out for 5 months this year, and as a result has expanded the facility to meet expected demand in 2007. |
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| Reef Hawg - why don't you consider a Ranger 618T? Faster than an 1890 and still plenty of room.
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| The 618 runs how fast, full load with a full livewell, full fuel, and three people? GPS?
The 1890 is 7" wider, 4" longer, has a much larger rear and front deck built in with an even larger deck available in the Esox Deep V model and more cockpit room than a 618 Ranger. The center load rod locker takes 14 rods to 9' in tubes that protect the rods, the entire interior surface of the boat, including the splashwell, is available fishing room, The Tuffy has a larger livewell and I guess to compare the speed of both with a full fuel tank the Tuffy would have to be at less than 2/3 of a tank and the livewell 3/4 full.
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| 618T with two people and gear was 41mph on a GPS with a 90 etec. I didn't ask if the tank was full, but I assume we had a fair amount of gas since we fished all day. We didn't fill the livewells or add a third person.
If Reef Hawg is interested in a new tiller he owes it to himself to consider a 1890 and a 618, doesn't he? I have heard good things about both boats, but I have also heard that the 1890 had a problem with porpoising when the gas tank isn't full (thereby reducing weight in the front of the boat). It was a legitimate question!
I have heard and experienced nothing but good things with the 618T. It seems like a very good boat to me. |
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| I have looked at both boats and they are very different boats. The Ranger is lower profile and narrower, the Tuffy is quite a bit larger and is a better rough water boat. Tuffy has the center rod locker and larger deck. floor space. and rear livewell, 618 has the side tank layout with what was really the "old" Tuffy Esox Deep V layout. Totally depends on what your needs and preferences are because they are quite different. |
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| The fuel cell in the 1890 is amidships, over the center of the hull, so that wouldn't be an issue. As mentioned, the right prop for the HP and model motor corrects any performance 'issues' with the boat. This is a new model for 2006, and it took awhile to find the correct matchup of prop to engine, but we have it now!
Both boats, the 618T and the 1890T are great products. Talk to your dealer, get the pricing and feature/benefits for all the boats discussed, and make a decision based on those facts.
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Posts: 3518
Location: north central wisconsin | I lean toward the 618 or 620 from my experience with Ranger in the fact that their craftsmanship is still unbeatable(from what I have seen, though I have not seen the new tuffys). However, the 618 or 620 do not posess rear decks, and I require one. With the control panel where it is on the Ranger, it is tough to modify for one as well. I also do not like all of the wasted space in the back of the Rangers. I lean towards the 620T for this reason, as I'd need the extra length to get the same interior space that I have in my 17' boat now. Show me a 620 wth a rear deck, and I'll be a happy camper! I hope they can modify some things, as I really like the boat otherwise.
That said, I need to see a 2007 Tuffy Tiller in person quite soon. A tiller boat built for Musky anglers, with a rear deck to boot, is very important to me.
Anyone know what the Tuffy's draft compared to the 618 and 620's??
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I know I can pull my 1890 up on the beach, and my 2060 drafted a bit more. |
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