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Posts: 4266
| I've had 3 e-mail in the last 2 weeks from guys who boated a 47 and a pair of 48's on Pekettes.
They are bashful, but I'm not. 2 were from Canada and one from MN.
I used to throw 6" Reef Hawgs all year round and they always seemed to produce.
Personally, the only way that I can use big lures is to troll. For casting, the biggest I go is an 8" Shaker and a 9" and 10" prototype that I've been fooling with. Slender profile and only a little over 3/4" thick. I need "easy to use" or should I say "user friendly" lures or my fishing day gets cut short because of the physical strain.
Since 95% of my fishing is casting, 99% of my arsenal is lures 8" and under.
Last year there was a lot of talk about big lures. Who is throwing the smaller lures (6-8) and having success?
Beav
Edited by Beaver 8/2/2006 4:29 PM
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Posts: 327
| The majority of the fish I've had chasing ( key word : chasing ) were on Ratlle Traps , although none of the stupid fish would eat the thing . |
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| Why? Big fish want the most calories with the least amount of effort! Big lures are a B^&%$ to throw all day but are worth the effort. Maybe a speed play would be the best place for small lures. |
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| I don't and never have bought into the "big lure/big fish" theory.
Why? Because I've caught countless numbers of pike and sub-legal muskies on lures that were the close to the same size as the fish that ate it.
My three biggest fish.....no, I haven't caught a 50 yet...but 48 and 49 inch fish all came on 6 and 7 inch lures. I lost 2 fish last year that were both over 50", and both hit Top Raiders....a very small lure.
I also don't buy into the theory because there are more forage fish under 10" than over 10" in every eco-system, that's just basic biology. I believe that muskies, like other fish on the top of the food chain, are oportunistic feeders and not selective. Why would they pass up an easy 6" meal that was right in front of their face and go looking for bigger fish. Hungry fish are hungry fish and will eat what ever presents itself, especially if it is an easy target. They don't go swimming around like they are at a super market looking for exactly what they want to eat. If it swims, it's food. They are ambush predators, and will expend little energy to eat a 6" meal just as they would a 10" meal. Would they prefer a large meal? Sure. Would you want a slice of pizza or a whole pie? Does that mean that you would turn down the slice to hold you over until the pie showed up? Didn't think so, and don't think any predatory fish would. |
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Location: Northern Wisconsin | i have more confidence throwing big baits. our boat has caught muskie on big
(10 inch) and small (5 inch) baits and the biggest was on a smaller bait. i think its more of right
time and place in most cases. |
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Posts: 303
Location: Valentine, NE USA | I've had days that standard-size shad raps out produced everything we had in the boat....
B |
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Posts: 432
Location: mpls | Bigger lures are more visable and produce more water displacement, potentially making the lure an easier target. Everything has it's place and time. But basically it comes down to angler preference and confidence. The beauty of Muskie fishing is that everything works sometimes.
I have more confidence in the big stuff. Numerous fish in the boat over the 50" mark keep me throwing/trolling the big guys.
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Posts: 2691
Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin | I can say that 80% of my fish boated are on baits under 5-inches long.
Pewaukee lake is a small forage lake and matching that is key. You can bring the big baits here and get your practice tossing them all season. They just don't prefer them on some lakes.
Now Mn is a big bait state. Most of the lakes I have fished had large forage. Take Mille lac's for example, I found 15-inch bait floating. I tossed the Double XX most of the time and scored some very nice fish on my vacation.
Every lake has its forage, matching it just makes sence and will score you more fish in the long run.
Bigger fish, bigger baits. Not always. The fish in my pond just are after what they think is bluegills, crappies, perch and they are stunted. If you always use large baits you will not catch much. You will have some luck but downsize and you will score way more and big fish.
Of the last 4 50-inch plus fish in my boat all were on small baits. I just got a 48 for a client yesterday in a 3 1/2 -inch bait.
Cave Run always scored on shad baits while everyone else used large baits. We noticed that the shad were very small and matched that size and scored.
Keep an open mind............Always. |
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Posts: 556
| i try 2 be versitle with my baits i try small baits but i seem 2 have more confidense in larger baits but small baits r still fun and work
EDditor's Note:
guts, please use the kings English here, the shorthand is distracting. Thanks!
Steve Worrall |
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Posts: 2091
Location: Stevens Point, WI | I like smaller baits too largely because of all my spinal problems, but they have put many fish in the boat for me. I really do well with spinnerbaits that are around 1oz. and burning smaller bucktails like TM Tails and Mepps Marabous this time of year. It's still more location, being in the right spot at the right time in my opinion. Predators will eat whatever is the easiest meal, especially if it is right in front of their face. |
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Posts: 1504
Location: Oregon | I have two customers that do "very well" and insist on having me build them gliders that don't exceed 5 inches in length!!
jed v. |
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| Seems smaller lures dictate on Ls.clair. the average size lures are 5-6 inches and they produce 50 inch fish steady.Take a look at wileys, woodies.lokes |
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| Elephants eat PEANUTS........................................
on Eagle 3 time a year and only go over 4.5" in September
RonP
Madd Dogg Lures |
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| fishing a tourney last yr, used smaller baits to start with no luck
switched to the large legend lure twitching it and had a good fish
hit on the first cast but she ended up thowing the bait. thats one
thing about big bait they can get rid of them easier. |
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Posts: 374
Location: Bemidji | Last week I found a 23in cisco barely alive on the surface. It made my 14in Franky Bait look like a 6in Ernie. The picture is ridiculous. I throw big baits year round and do well on the cisco based lakes in northern MN. Small baits do put fish in the boat every year up here but big baits constantly produce fish throughout the seacon. |
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Posts: 743
| i firmly believe that 90% of the people who prefer casting small baits just dont have what it takes to cast big baits all day long.
they dont have the physical abilities to do it..they dont have the proper rods/reels/lines/leaders. so..they know they can cast a 2 oz lure all day and be OK...and if you cast ANY LURE all day, you'll end up catching fish...
i fish all lures sizes..all the time..i consistantlly catch more and bigger fish on bigger lures.
tomcat |
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| let the fish tell you what they want...sometimes a small lure moved fast might get there attention over a big lure....look at all the huge fish caught on eagle on depthraiders..to a 50" musky that is a tiny meal but they still eat em...
I cast little stuff to the big stuff and just let the fish tell me what they want that day/week/month...
no clear cut winner on any body of water IMO...but then I can't argue with Extreme Ones success on those little cranks...
Big forage, go big bait, little forage, go little and go from there...
Tomcat just for that post I'm making you throw the Pounder for 5 days straight in Nov or until those skinny pipes of yours fall off!
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Posts: 1504
Location: Oregon | Biologically it makes more sense for a large fish to eat big meals. There is more caloric benefit to a 16 inch meal than there is to a 6 inch version of the same prey item. However, there is also considerably more "risk" in eating a big meal. A fish taking a 16 inch prey item must fully commit to aggressively capturing, killing, and consuming the food source. A 16 inch bait-fish is not going to just "roll over" and let someone eat him. A series of smaller prey items in contrast can easily be killed and swallowed. Of course some fish will eat anything if you hit them on the right day. I have found over the years that many fish species will purposely avoid big baits on waters where they are being heavily pressured.
Jed V.
Edited by RiverMan 8/3/2006 9:45 AM
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| Like Doug Johnson said "if it moves, its food", if their in a postive mood they'll chomp down on a Mepps #3 Black Fury as readily as 10" Jake or larger. Right spot, right location, right mood.
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Posts: 2076
| "Hersey's Kiss" vs "T-bone steak" ....there is more than one way to bag a fat girl! |
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Location: Northern Wisconsin | lol justin |
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| My brother and I go round' and round' over this.
I fish two or three times per month. He fishes more than that weekly. I have often felt that you may get less bites with larger baits, but catch larger fish. He does not think that's true. As often as he fishes, he can spend a day trolling 13" Grandmas, and not really care if he doesn't catch anything because he's probably going to fish the next two days after that. I on the other hand, get to fish so infrequently that I'd rather use smaller baits with the hope of getting a couple more bites. He just shakes his head when I say I'd rather catch three 40 inch fish than one 50 incher, but I don't think he fully understands my point of view. I caught a 47 incher last year. That's it! One fish. So far this year, I have a 41". He catches around 50 every year, which makes it hard for him to understand where I'm coming from. Do smaller lures catch MORE fish. Probably not, but how do you know? I'm slowly getting used to using larger baits, but the lure that's put the most fish in MY boat is a 6 inch Reef Hawg that I added some weight to. |
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Posts: 680
Location: Muskoka Ontario,Canada | I think that a lot of the guys catching numbers of fish on small baits is due more to the amount of water they are able to cover than the actual size of the lures. I'm a firm believer in the "if it swims, it's food" theory in most cases, but there are times when I want the added presence and vibrations that a big bait puts out.
I caught my 48" on a 10" glider and my 41" on an 8". The real difference in why I choose one over the other is how fast I'm needing to cover water. I love that 8" Herring glider for working areas fast and searching for fish. Once I've seen a few fish and it;s time to get down to business, I pick up the rod with the 10" Sucker glider and fish slower and with much more attention to getting the wounded prey action going.
One thing I can say without a doubt from experience is that having the right gear to match the size and type of baits you are throwing is crucial. I'm known for making pretty heavy baits for the most part but with the rods I co-designed, they are no harder to cast and work than much lighter baits. It's pretty much a matter of what you are comfortable throwing for extended periods of time. Fish will be caught on what you're throwing...period. |
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Posts: 32945
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | tomcat, we went over this once a bit back. I CHOOSE to throw small baits where they are appropriate, and big lures where they are, and am perfectly capable of tossing either. I also have the equipment. I don't much appreciate the charge that if one feels big lures are not necessary or appropriate in their angling presentation on any given day that they are somehow weak or not properly equipped. Neither is even close to true.
I use lures that match the area in the water column (and therefore the structure)I want to hit, at the speed I want to retrieve them, matching what I feel might be the best stimulous to get a strike response out of my quarry. Most times the muskie is responding in that manner, IMHO, and that is NOT a feeding response.
A stomach content survey done by taxidermists across Wisconsin on fish brought in to mount, (by that simple fact mostly respectable in size) a number of years back found the average muskie meal was about 6" long, and was most times a perch, bullhead, or soft rayed fish if those are available. Some meals were larger, some were MUCH larger, but deciding the fish will choose a large bait if the fish is large because that is what WE would do is the worst sort of anthropomorphism.
I caught my heaviest and longest Canadian fish on a very large bucktail. I caught my heaviest and longest Stateside fish on a 4" creature, on purpose. 13 of my fish over 50" were caught on Creatures, and those were for the most part 6" long. What does this prove? I had those lures in the water in front of the big girls, and they ate 'em. |
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| yeah steve
but people like you don't count
the jig/creature masters
people like me just don't have the patience or smarts for that!!!!
something i plan on learning though...cuz it seems to be the underdog/underrated way to put big fish in the boat. |
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Posts: 743
| Steve, i never said you couldnt throw big lures. i never specified anyone...
my physical abilities limit me to what i can do too. i never said you are weak..or anyone else.
you are a guide.. cant you see my point? as a guide, i'm sure many of your clients just wouldnt throw a Mag Dawg more than 20 casts, right? it's just too heavy for them. i have seen it many times, new guy in the boat wants to throw this big bait..after 10 casts, "can i get a smaller bait?".. that doesnt make them inferior...it's just too much strain to do all day..So, they switch to smaller lure, and catch a fish. no matter what you toss, it will end up getting bit...
i wasnt taking shot at anyone Steve, no you, not anyone....i was just stating whom i believe uses small baits most of the time...people who cant handle the vigors of using a big, heavy, hard pulling lure more than a 1/2 hour. Or, they do have what it takes, but they dont have the right equipment. this statement just comes from my observations on being on the water.
My friends who use small baits have back, wrist problems. they dont like big baits too much...too hard on them physically.
so...i'm not knocking ANYONE.. Heck..my good buddy chad is one of the biggest, strongest guys i know...when he fishes w/ me, he's caught his fish on Magic Makers and Monster Shads because they were hitting smaller baits..so i know all about putting out the right lures to get bit.
i didnt mean/intent to to knock anyone..
Beav indicated in his orignal post that he can only use big baits for trolling..then he asks "who uses smaller baits?"...well, my answer is people who cant handle tossing huge baits all day long, that's who uses them...
and i think your answer is "any angler who knows when the right time is to use smalller lures"...
i'm glad we have different answers. i believe what you say is true. i believe what i say is true.
if i had to guess, i bet there has been more 50" muskies caught on lures smalller than 10" than over 10"...especailly since people just started fishing big lures (the past decade or so)
sweet meat
tomcat
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| ...Muskies, like are predator are opportunistic feeders...hence...
...large or small they eat them all... |
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| Tom Cat, you are right. Because of the condition of my body, I usually only fish 3 hours at a crack before I have to get some ice on my back, or assume a comfortable position laying flat on the back deck of Sworralls boat.
That's why I posted this in the first place. That's why I make small gliders. They are easy for me to use for a longer period of time, and they still catch big fish.
If I had to throw large, hard pulling lures all of the time, I'd stick with walleye fishing.
I was just curious as to who likes to use smaller lures and has success with them.
Beav |
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Posts: 724
Location: Southern W.Va. | I think that season and conditions are major factors in what lures I use. I throw larger lures in
off-colored water in all conditions and seem to downsize in clearer water on in the early spring, but I'm not the best stick that post on this board nor the most knowledgeable . It just seems to to be good judgement to fish lures that move a lot of water when the water warms up and when dirty water are involved. The only time I've seen small baits work are in cooler water, clearer water or when trolling lake that have a small size forage base.
Maybe it's a confidence thing and my loss...........................
Mauser |
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