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Posts: 160
Location: Carney, Mi (in da UP eh!) | I am putting together an old tackle box with basic reel repair tools and parts scavanged from my old reels. I would like to put some sort of container(glass jar with screw lid,or some sort of melt resistant tupperware, etc.) in which I can soak parts in or use a scrub brush/tooth brush to clean the various parts (ie. worm gears, gears, etc.) what is anyone else using for cleaning solvent and what do you store it in??...Randy |
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Posts: 58
Location: Edina, MN | Mineral Spirits in an automotive parts washer. |
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Posts: 2112
Location: The Sportsman, home, or out on the water | Contact Chuck Nelson, from Nelson's Choice Bait shop, and Of Pure Fishing (owners of ABU). He spoke at our Club's meeting, and had a hand out that was the BIBLE for cleaning and lubing reels. I think Chuck knows more about reels that the folks who designed them. |
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Posts: 3504
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | WD-40
a small bottle is all you need, and it will go though any oil or grease as needed.
Then, a tube of white lithium grease to relube everything...even the worm drive.
Steve |
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Posts: 578
Location: Sheboygan Falls, WI | hey, thanks nightmare!!
reels are easy to clean and service. just take your time. Unfortunately, I will strongly disagree with VMS, DO NOT grease the worm gear. Oil only on the worm gear. Grease only on the main gear and oil on the rest. If you want, I can send you the items nightmare was talking about. I have been doing reels for 26 years now. |
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Posts: 2112
Location: The Sportsman, home, or out on the water | Oh yeah, Thanx Chuck for the lube. We passed it out at our banquet. |
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Posts: 160
Location: Carney, Mi (in da UP eh!) | Thanks for the great replies..I guess I was looking for what is the best way to clean the gunk (oil, dirt,etc.) off of the worm gear that makes the line guide go back and forth..or is it forth and back??..whatever...Randy |
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Posts: 578
Location: Sheboygan Falls, WI | Take the worm gear out of the reel. Use mineral spirits (like mentioned), WD40 will work (like mentioned) or get a product called Reel Magic and get the whole worm gear wet with one of these. Use either a cheap tooth brush or go get a good tooth brush and replace your old one and use the old one, to scrub the worm gear. The tooth brush will get into the grooves and remove the gunk in the grooves of the worm gear. AFTER your reel is back together, run a bead of oil, NOT GREASE, the length of the worm gear. Turn the handle several times to work the oil through the whole worm gear. It should not be dripping with oil though as it will collect more dirt and grime. During the season, lightly oil it about once a month. If you fish often go twice a month if it gets dry. Easy to see if it is dry or not. |
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Posts: 160
Location: Carney, Mi (in da UP eh!) | Thanks Chuck, that is the answer I was looking for...Randy |
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Location: Athens, Ohio | Another suggestion on the solvent is to use Red Devil lighter fluid. Dries quick with no residue, just don't be smokin while yer workin. m |
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| Chuck...why not grease?
Any time I used oil and with the amount of casting being done, the oil will be basically washed away within a day. There will be residue, but that is not enough to lube it.
If you are in dusty/dirty conditions, neither grease nor oil will protect the worm drive...
Since using the white lithium grease, I have had ZERO problems with any worm drive going bad. It doesn't take much at all either. In fact, any new garcia reel that I have purchased had grease...not oil. Been doing this for about 10 years now and within that time, I think I have had only 1 go bad. Being on the water about 70 days a year casting, I also clean and relube once a month....
Steve |
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Posts: 578
Location: Sheboygan Falls, WI | The grease that comes on the new reels is necessary. They are made in Sweden. Shipped over to the U.S.. Go to Spirit Lake and then to either distributors or dealers. If they were oiled all over, the whole box would be wet and the reel would not have the lubrication to start. The grease that is used is really thin and does not get really gummy. Oil will not collect dirt and grime like grease does.
I have been oiling worm gears for 26 years and have never had one go bad on me. Trust me, the grease is not what is keeping your worm gears from going, it is you taking the time to clean them once a month; KUDOS TO YOU FOR DOING THAT. Not many people will take the time to do it. I would venture to guess that guys will have worm gears go one of three times during the year. First is within the first month of the season. Second is during August or September and the last time is in November.
The guys that have worm gear problems the first month of the season most likely did NOT have their reels cleaned over the winter from the last season. The guys that had theirs go in August/September fished in some heavy weeds and junk and did not keep their reel clean. The guys that had theirs go in November here in the north are die hards; they had ice build-up.
The bar on the frame of the reel that the top of the line guide runs in can get full of weeds and junk or builds up with ice. This does not allow the line guide to go all of the way across, but the worm gear and pawl keep going. Vwalla!! the tip of the worm gear is now bad and the line piles up on one side of the reel or another. 99.9% of the time it will be either the right or left hand side. On that .1% of the time it happens in the middle of the worm gear. When it happens in the middle, someone took the pawl out and did not put it back in correctly and it grooved the middle of the gear, which is tough to do.
You keeping your reel clean, particularly that cross bar, has kept your worm gear from going out; not the grease you put on the worm gear. The worm gear does not need to be soaked with oil to run smooth. There is enough lubrication that stays put to keep it going just fine. The only place that I put any grease is on the main brass gear which will also lubricate the pinion gear which the brass gear drives. Oil the worm gear, bearings (not the anti-reverse bearings), cog wheel post, drive shaft post on the main plate and the dimple or bearing in the palming side of the reel where the axle runs in.
When I was a reel tech for the Abu national service center when it was in Two Rivers, Wisconsin this is how I did it. I did the same thing before and still do it after. I actually started working on my own Abu's when I was 11, some 26 going on 27 years ago. I learned the hard way about c-clips (AKA: Jesus Clips) and the flying distance of about 1/4 mile. Abu's are the easiest reels to work on out there.
Keep cleaning your reels, but I would recommend switching to the oil on the worm gear. Also, remember that if your reel starts screaming and dunking it in the water is the only "fix" for the noise, you just put a band-aid on the problem. Nothing is broken and no parts are usually bad, just a drop or two of oil on the cog wheel post on the palming side of the reel and the noise should be gone. The cog wheel and post were just dry and void of the necessary lubricant.
The best thing to keep with you while fishing is a small zip-lock bag with a bottle of oil, a screw driver and a tooth brush in it. Carry a worm gear or two and a pawl for each worm gear. If you replace the worm gear, replace the pawl. If you replace the pawl, replace the worm gear. One will make the other go bad.
Chuck |
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Location: Hayward WI | Thanks Chuck for lending your expertise. I just finished cleaning the grease out of 4 of my Abu's, only 2 left. I thought using the grease would be better, but looks like I found out why I've had a couple break the last few years.  |
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Posts: 8824
| Chuck,
Excellent explanations, thank you.
It seems that new reels are greased end to end -- would you suggest trearing down and cleaning a new reel before you use it? And am I understanding you correctly that the ONLY place you use grease is the main drive gear?
What about the anti-reverse mechanism, and some of the other bearings? Oil on everything?? |
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Posts: 578
Location: Sheboygan Falls, WI | Some good questions esoxaddict. Some questions that many were probably thinking, but you asked.
First, no you do not need to take a reel apart when it is brand new to clean it of the grease. The grease that is used does not get all gummy like the grease out of the tubes that you can buy; right away atleast. Can you take it apart and clean it of the grease and then re-oil it? Most definitely, but it is not necessary. You will just have to keep watch of the reel and clean it before you normally would if it were just oiled.
Yes, the main place that I use grease is on the main gear. You can put just a very, very small dab on the top gear of the cog wheel on the palming side, but that is not necessary.
As far as the anit-reverse(A/R) bearings go, too much grease is a big reason why people have problems with the A/R slipping; particularly when it gets cold. If that happens, I take the side plate off and run either a rag or paper toweling through the gears and turn it. This will clean the bearings of the extra grease that is on there. DO NOT soak the A/R bearings with any kind of solvent though.
The rest of the bearings in the spool, end of the worm gear, in the side plate where the spool axle goes or where ever they may be, I use only oil. Some reels even have bearings in the handles. You want to talk about a waste of bearings; but hey, that is either 2 or 4 more bearings in my reel. Correct? They do not make the reel work any better though.
As far as the grease goes, the small tube of Abu Reel Lube that you can get from most sport shops should last you a year or two, maybe longer. The Abu Reel Oil (aka: "Synco Super Lube" guess from the MuskieFirst Name that photo contest) will be the first to go as you will use that more frequently. The Reel Oil is the stuff that I usually try to hand out when I do seminars on reels, reel care and reel maintenance. The oil is what you want to make sure have with you in the boat and on your trips.
If you belong to a musky club or fishing club in Wisconsin, or very close proximity, and want me to come speak and answer detailed questions, just let me know. I have done seminars for Gods Country Muskies Inc out of La Crosse, Between the Lakes Muskies Inc out of Sheboygan, C&R Musky Club from the Appleton area and North Metro Chapter Muskies Inc from the Twin Cities area. Listening to someone talk about reels and reel maintenance may not seem like a great thing to do, but I have heard so many people tell me that they were able to take away a lot of info that really helped them. I may not teach you how to catch musky on pink baits in Northern Wisconsin, short line troll weed edges or how to fish suspended fish in clear water; but I hope that with these seminars I am able to assist anglers in keeping their reels ready for a hard seasons work.
Keep firing the questions out there. I will answer as soon as I can check here for them.
Chuck
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Location: Athens, Ohio | I took my Abu 6500 TCM apart a weekend ago and cleaned and oiled the bearings. I put a little grease on the main gear and put it all back together, then oiled the worm gear. Now, when I cast I get a clicking noise from somewhere in the palm side. Almost like the bait clicker is on, but not that pronounced. I took it apart again and looked at everything, all seemed to be where it should be. Still clicked on the cast, and very very faint when I just strip line out on freespool. any ideas? thanks, m |
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Posts: 8824
| Chuck, I can put you in touch with the seminar director for our Muskies inc chapter. We meet in Hoffman Estates, IL, though -- not very close to Rhinelander at all. Perhapes if you're down here for a show we can line you up then.
It's a funny thing -- the guys I know who blow up 2-3 reels a season just basically fish with them until they quit working. The guys I know who have had their reels 10 years and they still work? Wouldn't you know it, they tear them down, clean them, and oil them every season.
I don't remember if anyone has mentioned this or not, but here is something I do that has saved me a TON of confusion:
When you take your reel apart, line up the parts in the order in which they come apart, and facing in the direction they go on the reel, so that all you have to do when you put it back together is pick them up in order.
About the only other question I have for you at this point is this:
Is a reel that winds line more heavily on one side of the spool definitely in need of a worm gear/pawl replacement?
As you might guess I have one like this, but there are no visible signs of wear, and it's only a year old. Is there something ELSE that could cause the level-wind to malfunction like that? Would taking the pawl out and flipping it around help, or just make it wind the line on the other side of the spool?
You've been very helpful! Probably saving a lot of guys a lot of money on this thread, that's for sure!
Mikie, was your spool release in the up or down position when you put the side plate back on? And does the clicker still work? |
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Posts: 578
Location: Sheboygan Falls, WI | Okay Mikie, let's eliminate the clicker. Take the palming side cover off and completely remove the clicker system. That includes the moon shaped metal piece with the clicker arm on it and the 2 black spacers that go on the two outer posts ON TOP of the clicker plate. Put it back together and see if it still clicks. If it still clicks, then it is not the clicker.
When you put the clicker plate back on, make sure that the clicker arm is POINTING DOWN towards the spool. You will see that arm that is curved at about a 90 degree turn with the point of it pointing away from the plate. Sorry, not sure how to really explain it. This is why it is nice to be able to show people. Wish I had a video camera that I could hook up to this computer and show you guys what I am talking about.
Oh, Oh!! I just drew the picture on my screen using a Sharpie. LOL just kidding.
The plate should go on the frame with the pointy part towards the spool. Make sure that the black spacers are on the posts on the ends of the plate. Also, make sure that the plate is on the correct posts; just picturing it I would say it is the top frame post and the one towards you if you are holding the reel like you are fishing. When you put the side cover back on, make sure that the clicker slide on the cover is in the correct position. It is easier to do if you have the handle side off because when you get the palming side on you can move the lever and see the clicker pointer move in and out.
Hopefully I did not screw you up even more. I have been fighting a migraine all day and thinking hurts. LOL
I would say that those would be the main culprits. Nothing broken, just not quite assembled correctly is my guess. Do not worry about it either. I fumbled my way through my first reels as well. It is bad when you can visualize taking a reel apart and see all of the pieces. You know that you have done too many reels then.
Try all of this and if it still clicks, drop me another note. If need be, I can give you a call and walk you through it. That would not be a problem at all either.
Let me know.
Chuck
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Posts: 578
Location: Sheboygan Falls, WI | Esoxaddict, before you start to drop money on a worm gear and pawl (about $15-$20 or so) let me ask you something. Is it piling up significantly on one side?
If it is just a little bit, then do this. Have someone play "fish" for you and run out ALL of your line and then reel it back on. The line should all be tied to the spool so you should not have to worry about it all coming off. It may just be that one side of the backing or some of the bottom line is just laid higher on one side to start with. Also, try to make sure that the line starts in the middle of the spool. This may make a difference for you.
If when reeling the line back on you notice the line building up on one side or another, hold the line to the opposite side of the reel for a few cranks to get it coming back the other way. Sometimes it is just that the line is not laying correctly. Time for a "fish" person. Once you start fishing after it has been layed on flat, I will bet that it stays fine.
If the line is piling up significantly, you can try and turn the pawl 180 degrees and see if that makes a difference. Be sure that the pawl is set in the worm gear correctly. You will know if it is as the pawl will almost be flush with bottom of the line guide. Before placing the pawl cap back on, hold the pawl in with the tip of a finger and turn the handle to see if it is working smoothly. If it is, place the pawl cap back on; if it is not take the pawl out and drop it in again making sure that the flat part that goes into the worm gear is parallel with the sides of the reel.
Hope this helps. Sorry to have you run your line off and then reel it back on, but that may be all it is. I have had to do it to a few of my reels before when I put the line on.
Let me know if that takes care of it. I just do not want you spending money on parts right away if they are not needed.
Chuck |
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Posts: 578
Location: Sheboygan Falls, WI | Hoffman Estates is not all that far from my area. I cover Wisconsin through Janesville and Beloit then east to Genoa City. That is a hop-skip and a jump for me. N. Illinois, anywhere in Wisconsin and also eastern Minnesota would all be areas that I would be able to venture.
Which chapter is that? That would not be the one with Phil Gutmann would it be? He is a bum!! Just kidding. Phil is a good friend. Been to one of his chapters meetings already. Not sure if it is at the same place or not though.
Chuck |
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Posts: 8824
| Chuck, I tried pulling all the line off and winding it all back on. The first time, it did the same thing. Thinking it may be the knot between the mono backing and the braid or where I tied my mono backing on originally, I pulled it all back off, and re-tied the mono backing on the opposite side of the spool. When winding the line on the second time I sort of "helped it along" so to speak by placing my finger on the line between the line guide and the spool and applying a little pressure away from the side the line was piling up on.
I've got it wound evenly right now, but I suspect that as soon as I fish with it it will do the same thing. If that happens, I'll try reversing the pawl and see what that does.
Tonight I take apart my C4 and see what kind of damage I did to it before I dedicated it to jerkbaits only... 
I believe Phil gutman IS part of our chapter as I've seen him at a few meetings. It's the Fox River Valley Chapter, #39.
Thanks again chuck!
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Posts: 578
Location: Sheboygan Falls, WI | "If the line is piling up significantly, you can try and turn the pawl 180 degrees and see if that makes a difference."
Esoxaddict, I need to appologize for the above quote/statement I made. "Significantly" should be "Slightly" do to the fact that if the build-up is significant, the problem is more likely than not your worm gear.
Two ways to tell if it is the worm gear. First, does the line guide "stutter" or "skip" on the side that it is piling up on? It may not do it all of the time either. Second, take the worm gear out of the reel for close inspection. If you have a right handed reel the brass gear on the worm gear is on the left. Look at the end of the "worming" part of the gear on the side that the line is piling up. You must look closely at the tips of the teeth right on the end as these are what will go. If they are not perfectly pointed or you see brass showing through, then it needs replacing. The tip may be "shaved" slightly, grooved acrossed it or it may look like it is just bent (it really is not bent but just "shaved" that much). Even the slightest glitch in the tip of one of those teeth and it is toast. That is the beginning of the end for that worm gear. No new pawl will save it.
The biggest problem with what some people do is that they just put a bandaid on the problem. Replacing just the pawl when it is piling up is NOT the answer, it is just a bandaid. The worm gear is the "cut" that needs the fixing. Replacing the pawl is just wiping the blood off of the wound until it starts bleeding again, which could be really soon.
Hope this clears things up. This was going through my head as I sat in the dark in my recliner resting my headache. I realized that I mis-spoke with just the one word which was pretty important. I needed clear that one up quickly.
Sorry about that,
Chuck |
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