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| Message Subject: Define the Problem with the Wisconsin Musky fishery? | |||
ESOX Maniac |
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Posts: 2752 Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | muskihntr- I think we need to put this subject into context. I would like to see the DNR statistics for spearing. Yes- spearing has hurt specific lakes. What I said about native culture is absolutely true. However, there are always individuals in any culture who will abuse the resources. In that case I would point to those individual's, and ask them why they are doing this, this is not what your ancestors did or your cultural heritage permits. I know this for a fact, I have studied native north american cultures. My mother was 3/4 native north american. No, I'm not a member of any Nation (tribe) or clan. But nether the less, I am not ashamed of my cultural hertitage or my ancestors. I have nephews and a grandson who are members of the Ho Chunk Nation (Bear Clan). A hunter always shared his sucsess with his extended family. This could be a pretty large group depending on the size of the clan. By doing so, it insured that all had a chance for survival. I would hope that these individuals are following their ancestors practice's and sharing with their clan member family's. Today in doing so, they are also sharing excersizing their ancestoral heritage with everyone in the clan. We need the help of the clan elders/leaders/chief's to stop those who are abusing the resource and yes, dishonoring their ancestors. Attacking the Native American spearing as the root cause is plain wrong. Besides, it's something neither you or I can fundamentally change. However, what we can change are some of the practices that are happening during the legal excersize of their cultural heritage. This includes over harvest of our lakes. Let's not let this one issue devour this entire thread. Yes, it's an issue. However, it's an issue that can be dealt with. Not through violent verbal confrontations, but through intelligent discussion. ******************************************************************************** I personnaly don't fish for muskies with suckers or live bait (single hook kill rigs or quickstrikes). Is that something we can put a stop too? I seriously doubt it. It's another one of those cultural issues. "Why do you fish that way? Answer: Because it's the way my father, my grandfather and family have always fished for them......." So we outlaw single hook fishing and he/she doesn't use a single hook, instead they use a quick strike with multiple hooks and let the fish swallow. The outcome is predictable and it's legal. Are we any further ahead? Do we outlaw all live bait for muskie? How about, any muskie caught on live or dead bait must be immediately released? Hah! That certainly will get some reactions from both the folks who enjoy fishing that way and the bait shops selling them bait and rigs. These folks will be out in force at the CC meetings fighting any change that would limit their rights to do fish muskies the way they want. The Wisconsin Conservation Congress is a joke! It's not a good fishery management tool. I agree the Joe anglers need to be heard, but should they set the rules and regulations? I don't think so. Greed is now managing our natural resources. I think the Wisconsin Conservation Congress could be a good tool for the WDNR to obtain feedback. However, it should only be feedback, not rule/regulation stetting. That feedback also has to be tempered with knowledge, i.e., the knowledge of the WDNR staff forestry, wildlife and fishery biologists. In the end we need to let these experts do their job's for the best interests of the environment and the citizens of Wisconsin. Genetic selection, stocking, slot limits & other things that the WDNR should be able to more easily accomplish or manage. Even here we are faced with major opposition from lake owners, resort owners, other specie fisherman and yes plain ole tree huggers. My personal message to any muskie fisherman reading this is that, I think we need a task force coalition of Wisconsin muskie fisherman to work with the WDNR to effectively help our muskie fisherie reach it's potential. As muskie fisherman we need to put our personal fishing bias's in our hip pocket and work on the bigger issues of how we can realistically effect changes that will let our waters reach the potential that the majority of us desire. We all know that the WDNR needs our support both as a group and financially. Any new DNR project gets evaluated on the scope & cost. What benifits the most citizens get's priority access to funds. Maybe we can come up with some creative idea's to raise additional funds to be donated to the WDNR specifically for management of the muskie fishery. Maybe a Muskie Stamp is a good idea! Duck stamps, trout stamps and salmon stamps generate a good bit of revenue. Preimer artists' in the state compete to have there work on these stamps and yes that artwork & those stamps generate a lot of cash. How about a Wisconsin Muskie Coalition boat decal with some original artwork? Would you put in $20? I would. By all means, we need to look at all the sucssesful and not so sucsessful management practices. Minnesota has done an excellent job of creating a first class muskie fishery. Obviously the WDNR has done some good things with help of the local muskie club's, i.e., Green Bay and Fox River and the C&R Muskie Club. What about Ontario, the Ontario MNR must be doing something right. They don't even stock muskies. Take Lac Seul as an example- It was one of the hottest big muskie destinations. Guy's were killing a lot of triophy's and hurting the resource. The MNR's response with support of the resorts was to shut it off- no keep! Catch & Release Only! Are there guy's still fishing Lac Seul - heck yes. But the abuser's who were coming to Lac Seul and keeping multiple big fish to line their den walls got shut out. That took balls on both the MNR and resort owners part. We need to put our differences aside and come together to help solve these issues, I think the Wisconsin Muskie Coalition is an idea way past due. We have some great folks in Wisconsin that could really lead this effort. However, I see very few of them posting in this forum. Maybe because they are tired of personal attacks in the internet forum's. A few that come to mind as a board of directors would be, Larry Ramsell, Joe Bucher, Pete Mania, Rick Kueger, Todd Forcer, Steve Worrall, etc, etc. "We must be the change we want to see in the world" Mahatma Ghandi Al | ||
| sworrall |
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Posts: 32884 Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I see Wisconsin as having issues, not problems. The Muskie fishery here is in great shape as far as being healthy. We have a tremendous number of fishable muskie lakes, rivers, and impoundments here. Many do support some pretty big fish. Issue 1) Too many fish are harvested. Not just small fish, big fish reaching or beyond trophy size. Issue2) Treaty Spearing. This is a reality. It isn't going to stop, is beyond our State's DNR's control. Spearing is tough to monitor because of Winter muskie spearing. This is an issue we as sportsmen can whine about or accept, anything else is not going to be productive. There IS an attitude here though which I'd paraphrase as, " Why should I release a 49" Muskie or a 26" Walleye when it will just get speared eventually anyway?" Issue 3) The fact our fisheries management people are not able to change regulations and keep them changed for the good of the fishery. We have the Conservation Congress. Issue 3) Funding. Politics. There have been some pretty direct feelings expressed here, that's a good thing. Now the question begs: What can we, as sportsmen and women DO about the issues we have raised? Which of you have the time and are willing to 'step up' and try to address the issues with the necessary groups to begin a process for change? I have played Devil's Advocate throughout this entire conversation, from genetics to stocking to slot and size limits, all to make what I feel is the most important point; NONE of the issues will be 'corrected' to our liking unless we get together, form an organized front, and work toward our goals. | ||
| The Handyman |
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Posts: 1046 | muskihuntr, are you one of the whiners? My opinion is a very valid one, just as yours is! Mroberts, my 2004 catch in Wisconsin was 59 muskys and over 2 months of the season I could not fish as I had a major back surgery, so what does that do on my catch ratio? Makes it way better then most(and yours) and I will never say that I am a better fisherman then you, more determined to catch Wisconsin fish, maybe? But goes to my valid point that there are alot of whiners, that in my opinion are not very good fisherman so they can cry all winter about how bad fishing is in Wisconsin and all the fish they DON~T CATCH! I won`t even go to my friends numbers from Wisconsin over the past couple seasons as nobody would even beleive me! You have to admit, most of these post are negative to Wisconsin, for all you people there are other choices out there, maybe that would be the way for you???? Edited by The Handyman 1/5/2005 11:04 AM | ||
| Gander Mt Guide |
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Posts: 2515 Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | SW brings up excellent points.......there's issues, but no organized body to do anything about it. I think people believe that an organization like MI is going to step up and answer for us....not gonna happen. There has to be voices from the Musky community to let people, lawmakers, the DNR and the CC know that there's concerns that need to be addressed. I'm going to use an example of a community of concerned anglers who've stepped up....Walleyes for Tomorrow. Banquettes for stocking, clean up efforts, but although they may do some of the things MI does, they also are a group who lobbies hard for what they're concerns are..as a TEAM. The only real issue I have with MI is that it's membership seems to get so divided on issues, that nothing gets done them...that's just my opinion based on my very limited exposure to them. Steve's right, we need an organized body in order for us to move ahead. It does'nt even need to be a group looking to stock, but just a group to look into problems that need to be addressed. Pick an issue and work through it to completion...call it CAMM...Concerned Anglers for Musky Management. One thing this group cannot be is just Wisconsin residents.....we need the support of everybody who comes here to fish. | ||
| MRoberts |
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Posts: 714 Location: Rhinelander, WI | I just thought of something, comparing WI to other states and provinces isn’t really proof that Wisconsin musky waters are not being managed to optimize there potential, it is proof that other places have better fishing but it doesn’t prove the stated problem really exists. I believe that the history argument does and here is one other I forgot to mention. I spend a lot of time looking for unpressured waters in my area of Wisconsin. It may mean I have to drive 1 to 2 hours, (tuff hah), but it is amazing the results that can be had in Wisconsin on lakes that don’t get fished regularly or speared. My largest Wisconsin fish came from a lake under 200 acres that sees almost no pressure. This lake has numbers and big fish and the average catch is over 40”. How is this possible in this state, if our lakes don’t have the stuff to compete with Mn. Another very similar lake also under 200 acres treated us very similarly, then about 3 years ago it was discovered by many other people. Now it is hard to even see a fish out there. This lake is still responsible for showing me 1 of the top three sized fish I have ever seen. It would hold number one, if on the last day of my 2004 LOTW trip I didn’t see two 55” class fish. Luckily we happened to discover another one of these jewels this year, it will be interesting to see how it stacks up. Luckily I live where I can explore these waters and I strike out on many, but it doesn’t need to be that hard. Many of the more popular lakes are built very similarly to these little lakes and have better forage bases. I feel better management can make them just as good even with the extra pressure. By the way I don’t think any of these lakes have been stocked in the last 15+ years. Wisconsin lakes can and do produce trophy fish, if the fish are allowed to grow big. Steve I beleive that if any of the issues you brought up can be addressed we move in the right direction. But it really comes down to time doesn't it. As I stated in the email I sent you, there is never enough. I'll be honest, I can spend some time every day writing emails and posting, even making some phone calls. But I don't have the time to orginize a grass roots movement from the ground up, as I am sure many people on this board don't. And that's really the biggest issue we face as a group. It's easy to spend 5 to 10 minutes a number of times a day to read and reply to this topic. But that's all many of us have and it's going to make it tuff. Nail A Pig! Mike | ||
| MRoberts |
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Posts: 714 Location: Rhinelander, WI | Handyman, of course this thread is going to bring up negative points about the Wisconsin musky fishery, the point of it was to identify problems (and issues) that negatively impact our Wisconsin waters. I would ask you do you feel nothing can be done to improve our states musky fishing, it’s as good as it’s going to get? Lets say it’s good, does it have the potential to be great? I think it does? You obviously caught some great fish, do you believe that if you spent the same time and effort on Mn or Ontario waters you wouldn’t have done better? More fish? Higher average size? Lets assume you know the waters just as well as you local water. That was what I was trying to suggest maybe I am wrong. Nail A Pig! Mike | ||
| The Handyman |
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Posts: 1046 | My main point is I have only been fishing Wisconsin, and I never implied that the fishing can`t get better, and never will. I think that this problem should be addressed by Wisconsin people only, as we live here. All this arm-chair crap from out-of state people that fish here means a hill of beans to me! Does Mn. OT.,MI., let out-of state people dictate their policies, I think not! We need to unite on a Wisconsin front to make this state its full potential as we as Wisconsinites see fit. Can this be done??? Yes, I beleive it can! We have to start by listening to ourselves and not everyone who has an opinion! I will keep doing my best to improve our fishery by raising, stocking, and fishing my home state, and will back the people "in the know" when new policy does come about, be it slot(not my favorite) higher limits, or whatever. As long as it starts here and stays here! Its like backing the packers, win or lose, you gott`a love`em! | ||
| sorenson |
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Posts: 1764 Location: Ogden, Ut | As far as I can tell, the only problem with Wisconsin's muskie fisheries is that they are too far east!  I have watched this for a while and as an outsider (yeah, waaaay outsider), I think you're all spoiled (tongue-in-cheek). You (not all of you - the term is used generically) have the most and some of the best muskie fisheries in the WORLD, and just because some of them don't meet your individual expectations as trophy fisheries, you have type-casted them all as deficient for some reason. Any of you want to trade addresses for a couple of years, I'd be all for it. Perspective I guess. Your grass looks pretty green from here. Muskie anglers make up an infitismally small percentage of total license buyers out there (albiet maybe not so much in Wisconsin). Many DNRs are charged w/ managing for the majority (not sure if Wisconsin's is). That leaves us out in the cold a bit. sworral brings up some great points w/ regard to how much an agency can do. MRoberts brings up some good ones w/ regard to what may be out there, yet undiscovered. Lockjaw has artfully documented a 'decline' in quality (I have to take his word on the validity of the statistics), but what is quality to some is a miserable failure to others. You see what I mean - and what has been previously aluded to - even you (we) cannot agree with what 'needs to be done'. I truly wish you all the best in you quest; but how many times on these boards have we heard that the good ol days of muskie fishing is now? So if that's the 'problem with Wisconsin's Musky Fishery' - you can throw me headfirst into that briar patch. Seems a bit greedy to want more than that (devil's advocate). K. (whoa, bad timing, eh?) Edited by sorenson 1/5/2005 12:13 PM | ||
| sworrall |
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Posts: 32884 Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | MRoberts, You have extended more effort in what you've done here than most would admit time for, so I think you're input would be very valuable to a group dedicated to improving our Muskie fishery here. 5 minutes a day is quite a bit when one is focused! Imagine what could be done if 500 anglers had 5 minutes a day to help. | ||
| Reef Hawg |
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Posts: 3518 Location: north central wisconsin | Guys, I'm all for helping and organizing as I have been in the past. Really not for any more message board rehashing of the same problems that exist. I wish I could find my old thread about MN Mississippi strain fish(leech lake as some know them). Genes are the one and only reason that type of fish is being stocked there. They experimented with different types, and came back to the fast growing beasts that they have(thank goodness). Most of their fisheries are just peaking as well. The muskies have not been in many of them for a long time, and the fish have had a chance to get big without alot of competition. Those are a couple reasons MN fish are getting large. LOTW has never had amusky stocked in it. The genetics are there and room to grow, now with time to grow due to regs. Genetics is the first step I beleive and Norm brings some great points to the table on it. Look at some of the WI fisheries that have only had muskies in them for lets say 10-20 years. Those are the gems that I choose to fish in WI and are the only ones that I can compare my size and number data to MN on. I feel those waters have not been abused and the fish that are in there are: not competing and have had the best of both worlds as far as no pressure, room to grow, and no spearing. We need to do something to make repairs on many waters, but certainly the right thing. The right thing should be advised by local fisheries managers, many of whom agree with the musky anglers about the state of affairs. they need to be allowed to manage, period. Edited by Reef Hawg 1/7/2005 9:12 AM | ||
| ESOX Maniac |
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Posts: 2752 Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | Hi Guy's - A heck of a lot of good idea's & discussion. I personally think the Muskie Stamp is an excellent idea. Why not? You need a trout stamp or great lakes salmon stamp to fish for and keep any of those species. How is this different? I personally don't find either trout or salmon particularly difficult to catch. Yet, I buy the stamps so I can legally fish for them and catch one. If the revenues are exclusively retained and targeted to manage the muskie fishery it's a win-win. If you don't have a stamp it's gotta go back into the water. The Native American spearing issue is as Mr Worrall points out is not only abuse by the spearer's but also backlash from non-native anglers. Clearly we have a long way to go in resolving these issues. Attacking the Native American community as a whole is not going to win us anything. Managing our resources is not an exacting science, sometimes it takes trial and error. Hopefully more success than error. However, as I said previously we need to let the experts/biologists within the WDNR do their job's. Sure they need to listen to rational feedback from the anglers utilizing the resource. They should also be able to provide feedback to us why this or that idea will not be work or be a productive expenditure of the WDNR resources or funds. Saying the WDNR has failed is an easy answer for a lot of folks. However, I haven''t seen any fact's that support that hypothisis. I'd really like to see a active taskforce/coalition (call it whatever you want) to address all these issues. I threw some names out there because they are recognized within the State. I don't care if they aren't up for it, that's their perogative. I'll help anyway I can. Obviously this type of activity isn't cheap, people may need to be reimbursed for their expenses. Throwing idea's around on this forum is cheap and easy, we all have access & 5-10 minutes a day to put your thoughts down is not to bad. But if we are ever going to see any changes there has to be some active grunt work to get it going. This means we probably should consider a non-profit org with membership dues, etc. to cover the management costs etc. Are we competing with MI - I don't think so, nor would I think we would be competing with the local muskie clubs. So how the hell are we going to get this organized? Al | ||
| H.K. |
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Posts: 66 Location: Wales Wi. | ESOX, the Musky Stamp was proposed and passed in 4 out of 7 Countys this past April. It was worded so that it did not replace general funding but enhanced funds for stocking,habitat and research. It would also reduce harvest and help the DNR track harvest. But as long as we have members on the Conservation Congress that blame trophy management for reduced license sales, its going to be a hard sell. Still not out of the picture, but they have a bigger agenda raising funds to put more Wardens in the field and raising the general fund back up. Cant say I blame them when you look at the big picture. Mike Staggs supports the concept, but it seems the DNR have bigger fish to fry right now..maybe next year  It would be nice if more Musky people showed up at the spring hearings...we need all the help we can get. Thats why I still believe that education is more important than regulation..not that we dont need it..just more feasible. H.K. | ||
| Don Pfeiffer |
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Posts: 929 Location: Rhinelander. | I feel we all know that spearing is here to stay so thats a point nothing can be done about. The post on selective breeding and slots answer most of your questions. Go back and read them and keep an open mind about it. Your answer is there,get behind it. I do agree that habitat is also a big concern and the size limits and mortality have nothing to do with that. Don Pfeiffer................Mike H you have a private message | ||
| Troyz |
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Posts: 155 Location: Watertown MN | Wisconsin does not manage for "Trophy Fish", they have placed 50" size limits on lakes and have done very little to optimizing these lake potential: 1-LCO/Grindstone, look at fish per acre, DNR strips muskies then stock them in other lakes, this lake could use steady stocking of fish. Plenty bait and water. 50" is meaningless when there is less that 1000 muskies in the lake. 2-Spearing on these lakes does not help low density population lakes. 3-Genetics is probably a legit question, also not all lake have all the ingredients to produce trophy fish, bait, acreage and depth, and fishing pressure 4-LOW, no stockings, massive body of water, that does not see the pressure/acre of WI fish, has excellent forage to support the fisheries 5-Do not know if this is valid and idea=WI water have seen more pressure for longer period of time than MN and Ontario's waters???? 6-WI need to indentify water that have 2000+ acres, baitfish(cisco,sucker), and potential to grow legit trophies, and develop these lakes with stocking and size limits. I have fish LCO for the last 4 summer, have seen some 50+ fish, but there can be 3 time the amount of fish in this lake, and I believe it would be great fishery. But expecting it to develop on it own, when they stripping muskies for eggs and spearing the lake, is like a farmer going to field and throwing his seed in the field and coming back in the fall and expecting to see bumper crops. What will he see????????????????????? Winter is Here Troyz | ||
| HUNTERMD |
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| Interesting post that Mike brought up. Before give with my $.02, I would have to say it all lies with perception. You ask 100 people and you are going to get 100 different answers. Some might come close to saying the same thing, but there will inevitably be variations. I would also expect that many will would respond that there is nothing wrong and that fishing for muskie in Wisconsin has never been better. It is all in the eye of the beholder and what seems as a negative to one person is a positive to another. Let me state what I think is good about the Wisconsin Muskie Fishery and what I think is bad! WHAT'S GOOD ABOUT THE WISCONSIN MUSKIE FISHERY? 1. There are more muskie in Wisconsin (more muskie per acre) then ever before. This has been due to the advent of catch and release and stocking. 2. More lake and rivers in Wisconsin have fishable muskie populations than ever before. Due to the efforts of organizations such as Muskies Inc., Wisconsin Muskie alliance, independant muskie clubs, and others. 3. 98% of all muskie caught in Wisconsin are released to be caught again. Every year the WDNR surveys aproximately 20 lakes( some years a great deal more when there is a chain of lakes included) through the federally mandated creel survey in the ceded territory, both in the winter and summer in a rotation of about 6 years. More than 100 lakes then are in the study. A good reprsentation of the lakes in "muskie country". I know this to be a fact when I was working with the WDNR at the tail end of '99 and in to 2000. I was fortunate work with the person from the Woodruff office who entered the data collected and thats the rate of release for that year and for several years before. Also, I was privileged to run into a creel clerck in 2003 from the Spooner office and she was also the the person who entered the data for them and she also stated that the rate of release was 98% of all muskies caught. So apparently in Wisconsin, the "meet" hunters in Wisconsin are almost non-existent and are quickly fading away and most of the muskie that are havested in Wisconsin are from folks who catch their first legal muskie and or their personal best, or the muskie that will not release alive due to hooking mortality. WHAT'S BAD ABOUT THE WISCONSIN MUSKIE FISHERY? 1. Too many smaller muskie, and not as many " TROPHY " fish. First of all I would like to say that I enjoy every muskie I have the privilege to catch, so every muskie is a trophy to me. Also, Wisconsin still has some very big muskie swimming in the waters. But can it be better? Yes it can. And that is evident in the years that I have spent in a muskie boat in the '60's, '70's, and '80's when there were fewer muskie overall, but most of the muskie that was caught were 25# plus and 30# and 40# class fish were not uncommon. That was back when all or most of the muskie caught were harvested. We have certainly come along way since those days, but have some of our regulations, or practices been titling the ballance? Creating a fishery that produces an abundance of smaller muskie and promoting an environment that can't produce, support, or help the majority of Wisconsin muskie reach their full genetic potential and obtain 50 inches or better with more frequency. 2. Too many anglers per acre of available fishing waters. First of all, there are far too many lakes in Wisconsin that have muskie in them that only have private boat landings and no public landings and even more lakes with inadequate facilities to put in your boat. And even though I don't mind having company on any lake ( actually I like the opportunity to say hey and to see how they are doing) I know there are many folks out there that are very frustrated seeing their lake(s) getting over-crouded with other muskie anglers and other water users. It is for this reason we have to embrace the non-muskie angling croud to work with them to expand the muskie population into even more waters. But unfortunately, there seems to be a growing trend of " us against them" mentality and what is getting started here is a sort of a range war. As a group of muskie anglers, we need to realize that we are going to need the walleye, bass, pike, trout, pan fish, ect. anglers on our side to get some of our agendas adopted. 3. Water usage and loss of habitat. This is a broad subject but it is perhaps the most critical for all of our waters in Wisconsin and the entire ecosystem. It ranges from pollution from farms, indutry, and lawn furtilizers to inadequate septic systems and gray water from homes. All of these and more human influences are speeding up the natural process of eutrophication in our lakes and yes it is at the CRISIS stage. Also, some loss of habitat that has occored in the past has been reversed, but there is now other areas of greater exploitation of the natural resourse that should be of major concern to any muskie angler or outdoors enthusiast. Is there a problem with the muskie fishery in Wisconsin, I don't think so. The muskie fishery in Wisconsin is always in constant flux, it's just that perceptions change. It was't too long ago that no one cared how long the muskie was, but how much did it weigh. Now with the advent of catch and release, folks began to measure their catch and now there is the emphasis on producing longer fish instead of heavier muskie. I still believe Wisconsin is your best bet in the world to produce a 70# muskie. A lot of people bad mouth the genetics of the Wisconsin muskie, compared to the Leech Lake strain that grows to be 40" by 7 years and it takes Wisconsin muskies 10 or more years to reach the 40" mark, the Wisconsin strain expends its energy in growing fater instead of the Leech Lake strain that expends its energies in growing longer. This is not a put down on Wisconsin muskie or Leech Lake muskie and if you are skeptical in my comparison of the two strains, then I would like to refer you to the WDNR Researsh Report #175 " Performance of Leech Lake Muskellunge in a Wisconsin Lake". And even though I am not aggressivly pursuing a world record muskie, I am sure glad that here in Wisconsin we have the genetics to produce them. Now the question: WHAT SHOULD BE DONE TO ENHANCE THE MUSKIE FISHERY IN WISCONSIN? (again, ask 100 people and you are going to get 100 differnt replies but here are my sugestion in the order of importance) 1. STOCKING: Stop all stocking of muskie in native muskie lakes or rivers, and after implementation, a close observation of lakes and rivers, where water levels have been altered due to dams and other man-made obstuctions, is critical. 2. WATER USAGE: This is a broad subject that includes but is not limited to: industrial,farming and residential pollution, limitations of inappropriate watercraft for the body of water they are being used on, shoreline erosion, aquatic plant protection, ect. 3. SLOT LIMIT: A modified slot limit should be set in place for all waters in Wisconsin. Without 15 to 20 years of researching a slot for muskie that would best accomplish the goals of a healthy ecosystem, picking a protective slot limit "out of the blue" is biologically unsound. The minumum size limit on muskie in all Wisconsin waters should be a constant 34",( note, there is scientific evidence that having no minumum size limit can actually be more beneficial to the species and bag limits are better) allowing the population not to bottleneck at the early stages of the muskie developement and avoid stunting. And every angler who declairs at the time of purchasing a fishing license that they are a musky angler, will receive for free, a permit that will alow the angler to only harvest one muskie per year of 45 inches or greater, thus protecting the very muskies in the Wisconsin waters that we all want to successfully spawn. 4. TROLLING: Unlike other states and provinces, Wisconsin has a live bait tradition because on most muskie waters, trolling is not allowed. Hundreds of fish annually, and usually the largest muskie in the system, are gut hooked with the use of live bait and are dying. Legalizing trolling will, in time, replace the present day reliance of live bait and eliminate the unitentional waste of the natural resource. 5. NO CULLING: The culling rule is another outdated rule that was enacted before the advent of viable livewells. When it was put into law, it actually helped preserve the fishery, now it is causing untold deaths of all species of fish. 6. POSSESSION: The rule of what constitutes possession must be changed to reflect the intentions of the anglers. When an angler pulls his/her boat out of the water, or is on shore with a bucket, then the fish are in his/her possession. If an angler has, for example, a sublegal muskie in his/her livewell to help revive a fish that is difficult to release, he/she should not be pinched for possessing a sublegal. Countless numbers of fish of all species are being sacrificed due to the present rule. In addition to changing present rules and procedures, the WDNR should set up CATCH AND RELEASE ONLY LAKES for all species of fish to establish a sort of measuring stick for size limits based on eutrophication of lakes, their size and their biodiversity. These would be great lakes for all anglers who want to pursue their favorite fish with a chance at catching a real trophy fish. Thats my .02 cents worth thanks and have a great new year, Tom McInnis | |||
| Grass |
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Posts: 619 Location: Seymour, WI | Lots of good ideas here. Reef Hawg, when you worked with the DNR to get the size limit raised on the WI river, what process did you go throught to accomplish that? Could the same process be done on other WI waters? Grass, | ||
| Red Man |
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| I got my start Musky fishing in Wisconsin and I still like to go there in the summer when it is to hot to fish here on Kinkaid. I go north of Boulder Junction and camp at Big Lake. It has a 45 inch limit and I catch big fish there, the same with Trout. I don't catch many big fish around the weeds, but in open water. I think one of the problems is conditioned fish. Another problem is the number of lakes in Wisconsin. It is a costly operation to raise and stock that many lakes.We all know the answere to more and bigger fish is higher length limits. Those lakes with potential to produce these fish should have the length increased and I also would like to see some lakes managed as trophy waters. Big Lake has some very good Small Mouth in it, yet is catch and release only. One thing that seems to always get attention is money. When people start going elsewhere, then the resort owners and merchants will take notice. It isn't just Muskies, but all species that I see in decline in Wisconsin. This isn't just a thing for Wisconsin residents. Those of us that come from other states have a right to be heard. We buy a license and spend our money when we come there. I have posted on another site asking people to call the Illinois head of Musky stocking and the area fish biologist in Southern Illinois to put pressure on them for another major Musky lake. Anyone who comes down here fishing should have the right to speak on this. We are all in this together and if we can improve Musky fishing, then other species will follow. Someone has got to get things going and get the numbers infront of the right people. I like the idea of a Musky Stamp if it will go toward the stocking program. I would spend thirty bucks on one, I have more than that stuck on the bottom of Kinkaid Lake this fall! If the part time Musky fishermen don't want to buy one, they can catch crappie. Later, I got to go fry up some Musky! | |||
| Reef Hawg |
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Posts: 3518 Location: north central wisconsin | definately can be done elswhere. It took a few years, but it paid off. The process is that of what has been discussed here, the Conservation Congress. One needs to write a resolution and bring it to the table the night of the spring meetings. Better yet, if you get the support of local fisheries managers they can save you some time by getting it on the ballet as a rule change. Same process, just takes a couple years out of the process and if voted in, will be put into law quicker. Been trying to contact Mroberts to see what his thoughts are for this year up north, and what others may already be doing regarding proposals. Grass, feel free to email me and I will send a copy of our original resolution for the size limit here. Really nothing to it, just needs to be done and supported. | ||
| Grass |
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Posts: 619 Location: Seymour, WI | Jason, since you have some experience with this, If the size limits were able to be raised on the WI river, the Chip and Clear Lake, why do you think the resolution was voted down so strongly on the other Vilas and Oneida Co lakes? Grass, | ||
| MUSKYLUND1 |
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Posts: 203 Location: Germantown, WI | I've lived in Wisconsin for three years now and have enjoyed fishing for muskies, especially in Southeast Wisconsin. One thing that many people here don't realize is the tremendous resource that we have here. The number of lakes/rivers with fishable musky populations is simply astounding. In spite of that, it seems that people sure do like to complain about it a lot.I can't claim to have all the answers, but I do think that there are several things limiting the potential of the Wisconsin Musky fishery. While growing up in Western PA I learned to fish for inland stream trout. Trout fishing is a big deal in PA where millions of dollars are spent on stocking catchable trout in lakes and streams that would not otherwise support a trout fishery. Over the years I went from baitfishing to spinfishine and eventually I learned to flyfish . Later I became a Trout Unlimited member and began to learn about wild trout and how to manage for a quality wild trout fishery. A couple of things that I learned with the management of trout is that habitat is everything and stocking hatchery trout in waters that support wild trout has been shown conclusively to negatively impact the overall trout biomass. What does this have to do with musky managment in WI? 1) In many waters, particulary, in Northern WI, the DNR has been stocking hatchery muskies (of indeterminate or questionable strain) into waters supporting naturally reproducing muskies creating an artificially high population. The Eagle River and Three Lakes chains immediately come to mind, but there must be dozens of examples where this has caused a negative impact. Less muskies, and particularly less hatchery reared muskies in many of these waters would improve the ability of the native muskies to reach potential trophy size. Stocking is not a panacea to improve every musky fishery. 2) The increasing development within the watersheds of our muskie waters, especially but not limited too shoreline development has had a huge impact that cannot be overestimated on the reproductive capability of our native muskies. I remember reading an article a couple of years ago in a reputable musky publication stating that the DNR had determined that due to excessive nutrient load from cranberry operations impacting the primary spawning habitat in Lac Court Oreilles (or maybe Grindstone) it is believed that muskies are no longer spawning successfully in these waters. It is important to remember that muskies are not a highly adaptable species such as Largemouth Bass. 3) I'd love to see the power to manage the resource in the hands of the professionals at the DNR. I can't say that I understand the logic of the Conservation Congress or how management decisions are ultimately made here. It is far too political and the guides and resort owners have far too much power. The PA Fish Commission's motto is "Resource First". That is certainly a good thing to shoot for even if they don't always hit the mark. In WI, the motto seems to be "Which ever way the political wind blows". If the DNR was allowed to follow some of the same practices for musky that have worked so well here for inland stream trout, i.e. focusing on habitat first and managing for wild trout, many of our native musky fisheries would benefit. Note: WI has one of the best managed inland trout fisheries in the nation due not in small part to the efforts of WI Trout Unlimited along with the DNR. 4) I am not against stocking. Lakes such as Pewaukee, Okauchee and Oconomowoc or the Madison Chain would not have viable fisheries if not for consistent stocking by the DNR and local musky clubs. There are other fisheries that can and should benefit from stocking. The attempt to restore the Great Lakes Musky in Green Bay and the Winnebago chain is one example. I think without, question, however, that too many lakes receive stocking or too much stocking. I'd like the DNR to consider removing a number of lakes from the stocking list altogether. Stocking should primarily be for maintaining stocked fisheries such as those mentioned or for re-habilitation or re-establishment of viable natural musky populations. Stocking fish to supplement a wild resource can often do more harm than good. 5) As far as size limits go I think that this issue has received far too much attention. Sure there are a number of waters that could benefit from higher size limits and we should work toward that. The fact is that mortality from harvest, even incidental harvest, is at historic lows. Mortality from spearing or from improper handling are serious issues that will require long term education and discussion with all involved to build concensus for putting the resource first. I will continue to work with my Muskies Inc chapter to improve our local fishery and fight for the improvement of WI's overall fishery. Good fishing everyone. Keep releasing those fish and keep teaching our young people about the importance of conservation, habitat preservation, and respect for the resource. If someone needs to keep a fish don't yell and scream at them. That only reinforces the stereotype that some have of elitist musky fishers. We need to persuade and convince rather than preach. TomR Germantown, WI | ||
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