Muskie Discussion Forums
| ||
| Moderators: Slamr | View previous thread :: View next thread |
| Jump to page : 1 2 Now viewing page 2 [30 messages per page] Muskie Fishing -> General Discussion -> PMTT at Chippewa Flowage |
| Message Subject: PMTT at Chippewa Flowage | |||
Jim K |
| ||
| Help me out here? The PMTT doesn't pay out enough. But it costs to much to fish. People want the PMTT to pay out like bass and walleye tourneys. They charge huge entries, as much as $2,500 a man, not team, maybe even more for like the FLW. If $450 per team is too much for most people, how can they expect more money if they won't pay higher entries? It is obvious $2,500 is too much, even for a team, because the Simply Fishing tournament was announced and two years in the planning and they only had 79 teams. Not trying to rip on anyone or start anything, these are just the same statements I read all the time on the sites. How do you get higher payouts? I cannot believe the answer is sponsors, because it can't be that easy. If it was, I am sure the Pmtt sponsor list would be a mile long because then wouldn't they be making more money also. When you play the lotto, if you don't win or at least get the second prize, the next place down usually doesn't even cover the cost of a ticket. | |||
| Troyz |
| ||
Posts: 155 Location: Watertown MN | JimK I think yes sponsorship is how they will have to grow it, but will it ever reach the level of bass or walleye highly doubt it, much bigger audience. As far as entry fees, talking to guy who fish the walleye trail, fee is about 1500 an event, placee top 50 and the get their entry fee back. Maybe top prize needs to come down a little get 10th place to a 1500 payout? At chatauqua PMTT talked stated that they had hired someone to help grow the trail and payout, and it will be interesting to see what changes are coming. Lets fish Troyz | ||
| muskiehead |
| ||
Posts: 69 Location: Just above the thermoclime | When I look at the PMTT, there is really no barrier to entry into the event. If they were to drop entry from $450 (225/person) a team to say 350 (175/person) would it boost registrations enough? It's doubtful. If their research says it will, then lower the costs, blanace the payouts and add an event in July. These guys should take a clue from the poker guru's and use a satellite format. Leave the main events as open entry. Throughout the season, have regional qualifiers which the top x (1st) places will be used to seed the next PMT event. The would require coordination with MI chapters and others but it would likely boost enrollment & awareness in the PMTT and in those regional events as well. If it's not the top places, then make it a drawing in the regional events. Kinda like PMT did for the Mike James. Here are some problems from my viewpiont: 1) It's pretty much a midwest musky trail - esp. in 2005. 2) Why isn't Chatauqua a trail event in 2005? It produced the most action, but was not an open event for the trail. The east coast guys are getting the shaft - no home waters, forced to travel the farthest. 3) Why is July an "off" month? Hold a July tourney in northern MN (or if possible Canada). Heck most of the "pros" are up in the area at that time anyway. 4) Fishing time. The fishing time needs to be extended. I understand state regs. restrict this in some cases, but a musky tournament is not a bass tournament and should have some variations to address the difference. 5) Start giving back to the waters fished in a much more visible fashion. Earmark xx% of entry fees to be used for stocking yearling fish. 10%? Some how try to make that tax deductible for PMTT so they don't get smacked with taxes on it. ok... I'm done ranting (for now) | ||
| BACKLASH |
| ||
Posts: 172 | Muskiehead If the PMTT draws an average of 120 teams per event that is $54,000 @ $450 and if they lower it to $350 and draw a full field of 150, that would only be $52,500. Wouldn't work. The problem as I see it and many of the other anglers that I have talk to is you can not commit to the trail, be a top 10 team and earn any money. Only two top 10 teams covered thier expenses. I think they need to do the reverse. Raise it to $600 per event for a trail team and $800 per event for a non trail team. Balance the payouts. It is too top heavy. To fish the trail it is going to cost you an estimated $4500. It's hard enough to catch a muskie on the trail but to win , even harder. Ask a guy like Crash Mullins. It was the first year he did not catch a fish on the trail. Greg Thomas, whom I think is the best tournament fisherman I know finished 5th overall and could not cover his expenses. Yea you could call it the lotto but if I am going to spent $4500 why wouldn't I just enter Bob M's tournament and take my chances at a top 15 place. It would cost me less and return me more. Don't get me wrong. I am 100% behind the PMTT and know Tim is working on this problem. This is a PROFESSIONAL TRAIL. Top teams should be rewarded when they make a commitment to fish the trail and do well. | ||
| muskiehead |
| ||
Posts: 69 Location: Just above the thermoclime | Backlash, I guess i wasn't very clear. I don't think lowering entry fees is the answer. I believe that the payouts need to be leveled and fishing time extended to give the field a more balanced competitive format. To the contrary, if you raise the entry fee to say your proposed $600 you WILL lose some participants and if it goes to $800 for the "local" entry then you will lose even more. Maybe that's where it's going. Less participants, bigger pool. It would definitely change the nature of the trail and shake out some of the chaf. The Risk vs. Reward ratio right now is not significant enough to keep the unsuccessful first timers coming back. I think the "Satellite" sceanio could be applied to the PMT's with more thought. When you look at numbers: PMTT (championship excluded because theres no guarantee you'll be in that one) Expenses $400, Entry $450 x 4 event = 3400. No counting time off from work for some which would range from 4-8 days pay. Total: $3400+ Payout: Max: $80,000 You need to learn 4 different bodies of water and likely fish against a number of people on 2 or 3 of those bodies of water that know it better than you. Big Bobby Mesh. tourney Entry: $2500 Expenses: $800 (1 wk stay) Total: $3300 Payout: 100K Plus you can focus on a single body of water for the entire season. I guess I'll be at Vermillion or Mille Lacs next year. Thanks for the help. I'm rambling... It needs fixing, hopefully they'll do it. Edited by muskiehead 11/18/2004 1:06 PM | ||
| BACKLASH |
| ||
Posts: 172 | Muskiehead I fish a small local MI tournament that use to charge $100. They doubled it to $200 and did not have much of a drop off. The payout was much greater. This is the PMTT and I think the idea for it is a PRO TRAIL. I would some day like to see it as trail teams only. It is not fair to the teams who make a committment to the trail, only to have a local team who knows the water better come in and take the money. If it's their body of water and if they think they have an advantage, want to fish that one event, they should pay for it. That's what I am talking about when it comes to commitment and expeses. The local does not have them. For now, let them help fund the trail. I did not fish the whole trail this year (missed the Cave and fish Shelbyville with a different partner) I don't think it was fair that we made the championship but that was the rules. I think trail teams only should go. I know that sounds strange but it goes back to that trail commitment thing. If this is to be our Professional circuit, then it needs to be treated as such and the trail teams need to be rewarded. | ||
| Jesse-WI |
| ||
Posts: 11 Location: Pleasant Prairie, WI | This has been an interesting read. I spent alot of money fishing the PWT/RCL Walleye circuits as a co-angler and even fished the PMTT one year before time became an issue. While the walleye pros did spend time talking about what the circuit owners could do to make things better, they also spent alot of time discussing what they as pros in the sport could do to make it better. It would be nice to see some comments and suggestions along those lines. It would seem if you want huge payouts the sport needs to be taken to a next level. This next level will be easy to achieve if the anglers take the lead. You need more inovative baits and techniques to make catching muskies easier. This requires fishing in both optimal and non-optimal times. You need to make the musky a fish of less than 100 casts. You need consumers contacting various companies bragging about how great the musky pros. You need to find your own sponsers to help cover your tournament expenses until the payouts grow. These companies need to see the profits that can be made through this new endeavor. We need more live action photo's instead of stills. Large muskies need to become more common since it only takes one to hook an angler for life. Each new hooked angler equals alot of money spent on musky tackle. Just another opinion. | ||
| bturg |
| ||
Posts: 719 | I think Troy hit it on the head, distribution of the prize monies is the issue, not entry fees. You simply have to reduce the top prize money and pay a bit farther down and a bit more on the way down. If there are 125 teams and you beat 115 of them you should get more than just your money back. I doubt any one fishing the whole trail really expects to make a living from it but I think the chance to show a profit with consistent finishes is a realistic goal. For what it's worth I Mailed Tim W and Jim S on this issue and they indicated they were working on it. Bob T | ||
| Jim K |
| ||
| Jesse, from everything I have read, you may have made the most sense. Teams should go out and promote themselves, the PMTT and the entire sport of musky fishing. This would solve the problem with entries and expences and all the winnings would be exactly that, hopefully profit. It would seem like a snowball effect. Lots of people calling sponsors (not the small lure manufactures either), potential sponsors here more about musky fishing and the PMTT. They inturn should sooner or later start to take notice in the PMTT and the sport of musky fishing and it all grows together. That is what happened in the bass and walleye worlds. If everyone is worried about the expences, maybe they should go out and get their own sponsors to help with the costs. | |||
| Don Pfeiffer |
| ||
Posts: 929 Location: Rhinelander. | I agree that teams that don't fish them all should pay more for the entry. Even to go further and say that any team that makes the championship has to pay at least the total amount as if they fished all four events as a pro team. No team should be in the championship fishing if they have paid less entry. This would stop some of the teams from picking two events and not the entire trail. The pro teams are paying the frieght for them to fish the championship. To me thats not fair. As far as the schedule they have to put the tournaments where they can get the anglers. The midwest teams are the bulk of them. You don't bite the hand that feeds you. Don Pfeiffer | ||
| mike |
| ||
| Ya but… I’m considering joining just because there’s an event on my home lake. Part of that attraction/consideration is making it to the finals. Otherwise I’ll just stick to the other tournaments there. Maybe there’s just not enough of us musky anglers around interested in participating a full-fledged tournament trail. There’s just no money in it for anyone, anglers, manufacturers, sponsors, none of them… | |||
| firstsixfeet |
| ||
Posts: 2361 | The promoters are making a buck or two. | ||
| bturg |
| ||
Posts: 719 | The promoters should be making a buck or two.....or three. Gas, advertising, travel, lodging, judge boats, all cost and there should be some left for those who take the time/risk to provide the events. I think the issue is really not how much to get in and fish, heck they got 80-90 boats for the big V event for a much higher entry fee so the market supports the entry fee cost. Plus for most teams the entry is NOT the biggest expence... travel eats up more than entry fees so if you simply reduce the fee you reduce the pot and make it even harder to come out with some winning $$$$ worth getting. I simply think people would be more motivated if the prize money was not weighted so much on winning first place. You could legitimatly fish every event, place in the top 8-12 in every event and still spend way more than you win back. As to the "lottery" not paying second place this isn't a lottery its competition and the placings are determined by performance not sheer luck. I would like to fish a number of the events next year but I want to feel like I have a chance to at least pay my way with a steady performance. Sponsorships from interests outside the fishing world are a bit on the horizon for most musky guys......lets face it were not exactlly in the mainstream, like it or not the muskie business just isn't big enough to fully support competitors like the bass and walleye guys yet either. I don't think the PMTT is just about the money, if it was there would only be about five teams to compete, but I think if a better balence was offered it will have a better chance to grow. Bob Turgeon | ||
| Don Pfeiffer |
| ||
Posts: 929 Location: Rhinelander. | I see where they upped the entry $50.00 a team with 100% of that going to payouts. Thats a good start. Now if they could get another 5 grand from sponsors. With a full field thats $7,500 added to the prize money. if they leave first as is and split that among the next 11 places it would add . rounded off to this number $680.00 to those places. Now if they could find 5 grand more and pay to 15th place it would be rally nice. Would for sure give more incentive to fish it. Pfeiff | ||
| Ty Sennett |
| ||
| The end of August is the best time to put numbers of big fish in the boat on the Chip. The PMTT should put some really good numbers of fish up for this one. Corey Meyer runs a one day tourney at that time and it usually takes an upper forty inch fish to win. This year we had four fish in our boat during the one day tourney and 18 in the boat for the week. That is hard to do on any lake. I remember the last time the PMTT was on the Chip though, and it was a tough bite. Hopefully this change in time of year will make the difference. I'll be there for sure. Should be fun! Ty | |||
| Jump to page : 1 2 Now viewing page 2 [30 messages per page] |
| Search this forum Printer friendly version E-mail a link to this thread |
Copyright © 2026 OutdoorsFIRST Media |