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Posts: 364
Location: Kentucky | Posted this a week ago in Boats n Motors but no takers. Thanks for any help!
I'm wanting to get the right stainless steel prop for my rig.
My current stats:
1994 Tuffy Renegade 1800C (deep-V fiberglass of course, I think the loaded weight estimate on the sticker is 1600 lbs.).
1994 Yamaha P150TRS (V6 two-stroke, power tilt/trim of course).
Wide Open Throttle rating 4500 - 5500.
current prop is Yamaha aluminum 13.5" dia., 23 pitch.
Wide Open RPM on my tach = 5400.
Current Top Speed is 52.
The current prop is in average condition, a few minor nicks and dings.
I experience no porpoising but prop blows out briefly during high speed turns.
I don't know what mounting hole the motor is in (I'll need to check later).
On the Renegade the batteries are in the rear (two trolling, one cranker), and the gas tank up front, I think it's 36 gallons.
I fish from 1 - 3 persons, with what I consider fairly heavy load (maybe 3 Lakewood Monster boxes and a cooler).
The current tach and speed above is with two 180 lb. guys, 3 tackle boxes, the cooler, etc.
I'm happy with the speed, but want to get the durability of the SS prop and preserve hole shot and get better cornering. A shop quoted me a 21 pitch 4 blade or a 21 pitch 3 blade, but I'm not sure if that'd be right.
Bonus question: my boat lists to port a bit, but seems worse when on plane. To compensate, I dorked with trim tab in all settings, installed a StingRay (dolphin) and distributed weight in the boat all to no effect. Lately I put about 80 lbs. of weight in the starboard rod locker and that works. It's not real bad, but just annoying. Doesn't seem related to amount of gas in the tank.
Thanks for any help. I appreciate it! |
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Posts: 32958
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | If you are taching with an aluminum prop at 5400, and that is within the recommended range of that motor then you can stay at that pitch or even go up one more with a stainless. The 4 blade will stay pinned up better than the three, tach a bit higher and give you a better hole shot, but will be slower on the top end.If spped isn't an issue, then I would go with a 4 blade.
The list at top end sounds like a motor height or mounting issue. The stainless prop might go a long way towards correcting that. |
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Posts: 119
Location: Sioux Narrows | Steve basically called it, a four blade will help you corner better and hole shot, changed mine last year to a four blade and noticed a big difference but did lose a couple mph's.A jack plate may also help you, setting the motor back farther will give you a cleaner bite when turning.
D'arcy Finlan |
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Posts: 373
Location: Huber Heights, Ohio | Normally with larger HP motors, when you go from an aluminum prop to a SS prop you can't use the same pitch. An aluminum prop flexes a lot more than a SS prop so you should drop down in pitch. If you run a 23p SS prop I would bet your top speed will drop and your hole shot will be slower. You should have a prop that will allow you to be at the top of your motors rpm range with the boat loaded the way you run it most of the time. A 4 blade prop will make your boat handle better and will carry a heavy load better than most 3 blade props. I know you run a Yamaha but, I would recomend a Mercury Trophy (4 blade) or a Mercury Tempest (3 blade). Merc has a hub system that allows any of their newer props to be run on just about any other outboard made. The Tempest is a 3 blade that handles heavy boats/loads well and is also a very good performance prop for heavy boats. I would agree with the shop that told you a 21 pitch is what you need. One thing you can't do is go up in pitch as your motor will not be able to turn a higher pitch prop at the rpms you need. These Merc props will run you about 400.00 new at a couple of places online.
I would call Tuffy about your listing problem.
Feel free to email me.
Edited by David_4 4/20/2004 7:59 AM
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Location: Woodstock, IL | I'm going to add a question to this thread -
Most people have told me that using an aluminum prop is essential when fishing stump-filled waters, etc. because the prop will absorb most of the energy from a hit. A SS prop will simply tranfer the energy to the lower unit causing major damage. I've also been told that is an old wive's tale and an aluminum prop has no advantages over SS other than price.
Which story is fact based on your experiences?
I run a Crestliner Fishhawk 1850 with a 150 Evinrude, 3 blade aluminum prop with a 21-pitch. I like the idea of a SS prop; however I fish a ton of rock and stump filled shallow water. |
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Posts: 32958
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I have run stainless for as many years as they have been available, and have NEVER had lower unit internal damage to a motor from an impact. I have ruined a fair pile of props along the way, too. In my opinion, the stainless is more durable by a long shot, and not a problem to run anywhere. One thing, if you KNOW you are going to trash a prop run aluminum, because of replacement costs.
I disagree with the previous comment about the necessity to drop a pitch when going from aluminum to stainless. My general experience is a well made stainless will exhibit better hole shot, lower RPM, and better handling that the same pitch aluminum due to thinner, stronger blades, the Performace Vent system found on the Mercury props and similar venting on other stainless one usually doesn't find on aluminum. If I am running a 23 pitch aluminum three blade, I probably can run a 25 Tempest stainless. Some 4 blade wheels, like the Mercury Revolution 4, require a lower pitch because the prop is so much larger that most others, so that can be true depending on the prop. An awful lot is determined by the design of the prop! Here is some text fom a boat builder's propping website:
'In most cases when moving to a High Five from a 21" 3 blade aluminum at the top of the rpm range test at Stingray have shown a 23" to work best. This would seem to contradict previous information. The 23" High Five has exhaust vents, which the 19"and 21" pitch High Five props do not have. These vents allow the 23"’ to slip at low rpm allowing the engine to make hp quicker and to accelerate as well as the 21" without vents. In most of these cases the 23" will use less fuel at cruise and have a faster top speed'
I stand by the comment about the 1800 C Deep V. No one currently at Tuffy could answer that question, as Darrel(retired) and I brought that hull into production and designed the interior and weight distribution. The boat was taken out of the line several years ago. I ran three, and really liked the boat as a muskie rig. Stable, seaworthy, and a very soft ride, if a little wet in the big stuff. Biggest problem with the boat was it's profile, which was utilitarian, a kind way to say a bit ugly. It also wasn't blindingly fast, so it conflicted with the direction Tuffy went with the Walleye and Muskie V market during the late 90's and the last few years. |
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Posts: 96
Location: Eden Prairie, Mn. |
Sputter,
I posted late in the boat and motor. Check it out.
I feel your rig is not heavy enough to justify a four blade. You don't need to lift a dual console/walk-thru thats 20+ ft long
with a kicker, 5 battsand three guys w/ gear.
You can certainly put one on but you won't maximize the props capabilities and sacrifice speed needlessly.
1- Raise the motor 2 holes - to maintain RPM by going to a SS prop and increased diameter.
2- Prop- Yamaha PRO Series SS 23 pitch x 14 1/2 dia. and a 21 pitch x 14 1/2 dia. Test both
These are Hi-perf progressive pitched (holeshot/speed) Hi-Rake (lift) Cupped (Bite/lift) and Vented (holeshot) props.
Run both with heavy and light loads - Checking topspeed, planing speed, holeshot and handling (turns/hvy. waves)
Pick the one that meets your needs
With the increased diameter and cupping I think the 21 pitch x 14 1/2 dia. will be the Silver Bullet on your boat.
Mother
PS - Port 'listing' - check the motor to see if it mounted level-vertically perpendicular to the transom.
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Posts: 32958
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Believe me, I know that hull, and he needs all the lift he can get. |
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Posts: 364
Location: Kentucky | Well, I'm enjoying the scholarly debate over the performance stats and prop options.  Seriously, thanks for the ideas -- plenty of food for thought, and it's helped me to understand the choices and narrow it down. I've got some things to try now.
First off, the motor is mounted in the top hole, so I can see about getting a local dealer to heft it up a couple slots. I'll also double-check that it's perpendicular to transom, but I think that's not a problem right now. A jack plate may help if these other options don't pan out.
I ran a SS 3-blade 23P Johnson unvented prop for most of last season and it was pretty good. Little lower tach and it kept me pinned in the turns. Top speed right at 50. But I dinged it and the hub is out of round (rubs housing a bit) so I'm running the aluminum and your ideas will get me to a good SS prop.
Steve, thanks for the history of the design and perspective on Tuffy. Your assessment of my boat is right on, of course. Well, except for the part where you almost called it ugly <g>. I kinda like the sweeping bow and wide beam. Like the Esox Mag, it's a nice fishing platform. The hull design is dated and it's a little like driving an SUV on the water, but it's stable and great to fish from. It was a challenge for my dealer to get the 65AP on the sweeping bow but they did a great job. New carpet and floor and reglassed in 2000, and I got it on eBay for $6800 in Oct. 2002, so I'm happy (if a bit defensive)  I've tried to attach a pic of the pig!
Thanks for all the help guys.
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Posts: 32958
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I believe I remember that boat. It belonged to a Muskie angler from Michigan, I think. Can't remember his name right off (he had a publication for awhile, I think...darn WHAT was his name??), and the boat was gone through thoroughly at the factory in 200, I think. Do I have the right rig? |
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Posts: 364
Location: Kentucky | Yeah, I knew you'd remember the boat, Steve. Lots of folks on m1 have been real helpful as I've tinkered with it. I bought it from Bill Shue who used to guide The Chip and now lives waaay up in the Michigan UP, Marquette, I think. Was quite a drive to go get it, but now it's one of the rare Tuffys in Kentucky. My brother lives in Louisville too, and has an Esox Mag from Mark Gostischa (not sure if I spelled that right, but he may forgive me). |
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