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Muskie Fishing -> General Discussion -> Muskies Inc FFS Position Statement
 
Message Subject: Muskies Inc FFS Position Statement
Angling Oracle
Posted 7/2/2024 12:47 PM (#1029471 - in reply to #1028448)
Subject: Re: Muskies Inc FFS Position Statement




Posts: 337


Location: Selkirk, Manitoba
No mystery here:

https://www.outdoorlife.com/fishing/minnesota-record-black-crappie/

There is no difference between FFS (for any species) and spotlighting deer.

Sure you can use it ethically, the same way we used to navigate on LOTW in the dark when only had a spotlight find the buoys to get home, but some folks will not use a spotlight ethically, and some folks are definitely not going to use FFS ethically.

No one that despises FFS now is going to suddenly come around to the deflection arguments (ie. other things cause mortality too, we can stock more, create better spawning habitat, I'm good at releasing fish, barbless, 10 hp motors, yadda, yadda, yadda). It is transparent to the FFS "antis" what it is and what it will become: nothing good.

BNelson is right regarding the musky fishery decline, although I think he is a bit generous on the timeline for some of the lakes where it is being used in a significant way already.

Needs to be banned.

The Muskies Inc. statement is a good start.

Edited by Angling Oracle 7/2/2024 12:53 PM
Tommy
Posted 7/2/2024 2:00 PM (#1029473 - in reply to #1029448)
Subject: Re: Muskies Inc FFS Position Statement




Posts: 90


IAJustin - 7/1/2024 10:45 PM

BNelson preaching we should all catch “less” muskies, I’ve heard it all now. ;)


I'm doing my part catching less I tell ya what.
CincySkeez
Posted 7/2/2024 2:07 PM (#1029475 - in reply to #1029471)
Subject: Re: Muskies Inc FFS Position Statement





Posts: 612


Location: Duluth
Angling Oracle - 7/2/2024 12:47 PM

No mystery here:

https://www.outdoorlife.com/fishing/minnesota-record-black-crappie/

There is no difference between FFS (for any species) and spotlighting deer.

Sure you can use it ethically, the same way we used to navigate on LOTW in the dark when only had a spotlight find the buoys to get home, but some folks will not use a spotlight ethically, and some folks are definitely not going to use FFS ethically.

No one that despises FFS now is going to suddenly come around to the deflection arguments (ie. other things cause mortality too, we can stock more, create better spawning habitat, I'm good at releasing fish, barbless, 10 hp motors, yadda, yadda, yadda). It is transparent to the FFS "antis" what it is and what it will become: nothing good.

BNelson is right regarding the musky fishery decline, although I think he is a bit generous on the timeline for some of the lakes where it is being used in a significant way already.

Needs to be banned.

The Muskies Inc. statement is a good start.


If anything, this guys is doing his part to raise awareness. Another fish that "wouldn't release" I guess..
dbach17
Posted 7/3/2024 9:25 AM (#1029488 - in reply to #1028448)
Subject: RE: Muskies Inc FFS Position Statement




Posts: 86


Location: Des Plaines, IL

The thing that kills me is that I know some very vocal people calling for regulation or banning of forward facing sonar, but those same people will be the first to yell at me about "freedom", "free markets", and "capitalism" when I want regulations put in place to save the lives, or make life better for, other human beings.

I did not get to target muskies from the early 2000s to the mid 2010s very much. I was in high school and college, and just starting a career, getting married, etc. Should I be mad at all the people who crushed it on Vermilion during that time because they "caught too many fish"? Where was the regulation of side imaging and double tens that helped catch rates increase? At least I'm told that those two things drastically changed the game.

Here's a side imaging video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTq1Tmwr4ko 

Should we also ban this tactic? I would assume people agree this is increasing catch rates, yes? And I know the response will be something like: "it's different, you can't actually see the fish moving" or something along those lines. But if the result is the same, and that fish is caught, how different is it really? 

I'll take a look at the historical example of prohibition. We passed a CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT to get rid of alcohol (which, by the way, was actually probably a good idea based on the research that shows alcohol consumption is very much not good for humans). Spoiler Alert: it did not go well. How's the "war on drugs" going?

But I do agree with people, that progress for progress' sake is not always good. More is not always better. But we live in a world that rewards those things monetarily, unfortunately, and our culture is obsessed with status and money.

I'd be happy to see reasonable regulations put in place, but I honestly have no idea how that would be enforceable. Like I've stated previously, I love live sonar for trolling and boat position. It is incredibly helpful to know what's in front of me instead of behind me. I am better with my boat position because of it. I can find the trolling depth of any bait I run with relative ease now. Those two things alone are worth it for me. And those two things have helped me catch fish. I have never once pulled up to a spot and used live sonar to watch my bait in front of a fish. Personally, that's not something I'm interested in.

But if someone else wants to do that, and abides by limits and regulations, than who am I to tell them they can't? I know Vermilion is being used as an example. Stocked dropped off dramatically, catch rates increased, and now I consistently hear about how tough it is. But would it still be that tough if there had been more steady stocking for the entire time and there wasn't a decade stretch of people absolutely crushing it on that lake? What if instead of a great 10 years, we had a good 30 years? Again, I didn't get to personally experience any of that, so I'm just going by things that I have read about the "golden era" of MN musky fishing.

chuckski
Posted 7/3/2024 10:05 AM (#1029490 - in reply to #1028448)
Subject: Re: Muskies Inc FFS Position Statement




Posts: 1261


The Vermillion and Mille Lacs fish were pretty much left alone when they were growing up after the first stockings. (everyone drove by on the way Northern Minnesota and Canada.)
danmuskyman
Posted 7/3/2024 10:15 PM (#1029506 - in reply to #1029448)
Subject: Re: Muskies Inc FFS Position Statement




Posts: 628


Location: Madison, WI
IAJustin - 7/1/2024 10:45 PM

BNelson preaching we should all catch “less” muskies, I’ve heard it all now. ;)


For as long as I've been on this forum, he's been bragging about his success and how many muskies he catches as year/month/day/hour whatever! Now all of a sudden we all need to limit or catch rates to reduce handling fish. Joke!
sworrall
Posted 7/4/2024 8:42 AM (#1029512 - in reply to #1029506)
Subject: Re: Muskies Inc FFS Position Statement





Posts: 32836


Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin
danmuskyman - 7/3/2024 10:15 PM

IAJustin - 7/1/2024 10:45 PM

BNelson preaching we should all catch “less” muskies, I’ve heard it all now. ;)


For as long as I've been on this forum, he's been bragging about his success and how many muskies he catches as year/month/day/hour whatever! Now all of a sudden we all need to limit or catch rates to reduce handling fish. Joke!


Ok that's enough. Context is everything and personal attacks suck.
BNelson
Posted 7/4/2024 9:42 AM (#1029517 - in reply to #1029512)
Subject: Re: Muskies Inc FFS Position Statement





Location: Contrarian Island
Not limiting it at all Dan. But there is a line in my opinion where its simply NOT fair chase. Sharp shooting is just that. By the looks of Slamrs poll most agree...If you dont agree I could care less. Guessing you are a livescoper....

Edited by BNelson 7/4/2024 9:49 AM
Emptynet
Posted 7/4/2024 1:44 PM (#1029523 - in reply to #1028451)
Subject: Re: Muskies Inc FFS Position Statement




Posts: 395


Location: WI
In complete agreement with what Steve said.
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