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| In one of the stories regarding the criminal case against the walleye fishermen, it was noted that Ohio has some sort of law specific to cheating in a game fishing tournament.
Can't find anything in WI like that but may be doing a bad search. Kind of surprised me that they have a regulation/law that specific to tournaments. Any other states have this? |
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Posts: 1683
| I think typical laws regarding theft, attempted theft covers tournaments in most states. |
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| Brian Hoffies - 10/27/2022 8:32 AM
I think typical laws regarding theft, attempted theft covers tournaments in most states.
My guess as well. Theft and theft by fraud would seem to cover it. |
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Posts: 1683
| There was a big ice fishing tournament in Minnesota for years. The same family from outstate was placing high every year. They were suspected but never charged with anything to the best of my knowledge. I know there were laws in place that could have resulted in charges had anything come of it.
It seems people can sleep just fine these days no matter the lies they tell or the people they cheat. Where have peoples morals & ethics gone? All in the name of money. Very sad. |
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| Brian Hoffies - 10/27/2022 8:57 AM
There was a big ice fishing tournament in Minnesota for years. The same family from outstate was placing high every year. They were suspected but never charged with anything to the best of my knowledge. I know there were laws in place that could have resulted in charges had anything come of it.
It seems people can sleep just fine these days no matter the lies they tell or the people they cheat. Where have peoples morals & ethics gone? All in the name of money. Very sad.
Cheats, frauds have always been with us, just better reported today. Just finished reading Founding Brothers and one story is about how Thomas Jefferson paid a scandal mongering journalist to write bogus stories about John Adams, when both were running for president. Jefferson denied it but the writer, feeling the heat, produced the letters from Jefferson telling him what he was to do. Jefferson paid the same writer to spread scandal about Alexander Hamilton. |
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Posts: 1241
| I've fished out of different boats fished a lot of different places (some I try to keep off the beaten path) others where I'm watching fishing shows and I think to myself there not saying where there at but I've fished that spot so I know where there at.
I own all kinds of tackle and lures, DVD's/old VHS tapes books and on and on. I don't want to know how much money I've spent or the unit cost of my fish. Part of my way of life. The woods, lakes, friends and family and of course the fish. A life time of memories. I try to avoid all the hoop la like the plague. Enjoy the simple things in life. |
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Posts: 498
Location: Ludington, MI | It will be interesting to see if they are successfully prosecuted. Although we all think we know what constitutes a crime, every criminal code has certain "elements" that must be met for a successful prosecution. Right now, they've got lead weights in the guys' fish that were not in their possession when the weights were found. My guess is there was a period of time where the guys will be able to wriggle and try for reasonable doubt amongst jurors that someone else might have weighted the fish due to a grudge. Where's Court TV when we need it? |
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Posts: 525
Location: WI | tundrawalker00 - 10/27/2022 11:16 AM
It will be interesting to see if they are successfully prosecuted. Although we all think we know what constitutes a crime, every criminal code has certain "elements" that must be met for a successful prosecution. Right now, they've got lead weights in the guys' fish that were not in their possession when the weights were found. My guess is there was a period of time where the guys will be able to wriggle and try for reasonable doubt amongst jurors that someone else might have weighted the fish due to a grudge. Where's Court TV when we need it?
If the glove don’t fit, you must acquit. |
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Posts: 1683
| Well the sinkers fit, so there will be no acquitting these cheaters. No forgive and forget, not by their friends, not by their family, not by their spouse, not by other contestants. The bed has been made, time to lie in it.
No further laws required. Just enforce whats already on the books. |
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Location: oswego, il | I'm surprised neither of them went for a plea to convict the other. One thing that sets Wisconsin apart with tournaments is no culling. |
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| Brian Hoffies - 10/27/2022 8:41 PM
Well the sinkers fit, so there will be no acquitting these cheaters. No forgive and forget, not by their friends, not by their family, not by their spouse, not by other contestants. The bed has been made, time to lie in it.
No further laws required. Just enforce whats already on the books.
Again, according to one story, there are already laws on the books in Ohio regarding fishing tournaments. That was what I found interesting and wondered if any other states have them. |
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| ToddM - 10/27/2022 11:36 PM
I'm surprised neither of them went for a plea to convict the other. One thing that sets Wisconsin apart with tournaments is no culling.
Back in 2011, a law was passed that allows culling in WI bass tournaments. Don't know if it applies to walleye tournaments. |
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Posts: 498
Location: Ludington, MI | We used to have a no-cull salmon tournament here. You used to have to keep your first 12 fish, regardless of size. Well, one of the big-name teams got caught shaking off small ones, videoed from another boat while the paid observer (provided by another team) napped on their boat. So now it's a cull tournament, still with observers in the pro division -- and for the second day of the amateur division the top boats have to carry observers. As a former tournament committee member, you armor your events up as much as you can, but there's always ways to cheat. You have to try to think like a real gutter worm to foil all their possible plots. |
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Posts: 1214
Location: Walker, MN | North of 8 - 10/28/2022 7:00 AM
ToddM - 10/27/2022 11:36 PM
I'm surprised neither of them went for a plea to convict the other. One thing that sets Wisconsin apart with tournaments is no culling.
Back in 2011, a law was passed that allows culling in WI bass tournaments. Don't know if it applies to walleye tournaments.
There was a stink during the Major League Fishing Tournament on Mille Lacs this year. The use of two lines, and improper culling. The MN law states that you can't have your limit and cull, need to stay one short of your limit to cull. The DNR had comments afterword, those guys should have been immediately dq'd and fined imo. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Regarding MLF and Mille Lacs:
"Based on the response from fans and anglers, we realize that we have created some confusion regarding the two-line regulation at the Mille Lacs tournament, and we would like to clarify the situation.
Major League Fishing bears the full responsibility for what happened with the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources (DNR) violations.
As previously stated, MLF Bass Pro Tour Rule No. 33 permits an angler to utilize a second line once per period. It was an oversight that this rule directly violated the Minnesota DNR fishing regulations, and we did not properly communicate that to our anglers this week as we normally do. It is correct that two anglers received citations from the MN DNR, however, Major League Fishing takes full responsibility for those violations and the league will pay the fines that our anglers incurred.
The two-line rule was created as a compelling aspect of fishing to create excitement for the competitive and viewership experience. The rule, however, does not comply with Minnesota DNR regulations. This is MLF’s mistake.
Again, we sincerely apologize to the State of Minnesota, the Minnesota DNR, the outdoorsmen and women of Minnesota, and our Bass Pro Tour anglers for creating this conflict. We have implemented new processes to ensure this error does not occur again."
I have personal experience with the two anglers who were fined and would vouch for their integrity. Good people, both. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | https://casetext.com/regulation/wisconsin-administrative-code/agency...
/fish-game-and-enforcement-forestry-and-recreation/chapter-nr-20-fishing-inland-waters-outlying-waters/subchapter-iv-department-authority/section-nr-2
rs/subchapter-iv-department-authority/section-nr-2040-fishing-tournaments
https://dnr.wi.gov/news/Weekly/article/?id=2726
https://dnr.wisconsin.gov/topic/Fishing/tournaments/application.html
All sorts of rules, local and state. If one 'cheats' that action would break one or more rules in every case I looked at. |
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Location: PA Angler | I’m still waiting to see what chargers are actually going to go threw. Right now it’s up to the court. |
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| The MLF issue with two lines is confusing. I understand that MN has a one line limit, but how would anglers in MLF even use two lines? When on TV they are frantically casting and working a variety of lures. Jigging for bass? |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Probably, yes. |
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Posts: 498
Location: Ludington, MI | Toss out a Texas rig or Carolina rig and cast with another rod while it drags. Or you could fish two drop-shot rods, which would be just like fishing a couple of perch or crappie rigs at once. |
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| tundrawalker00 - 10/28/2022 7:26 AM
We used to have a no-cull salmon tournament here. You used to have to keep your first 12 fish, regardless of size. Well, one of the big-name teams got caught shaking off small ones, videoed from another boat while the paid observer (provided by another team) napped on their boat. So now it's a cull tournament, still with observers in the pro division -- and for the second day of the amateur division the top boats have to carry observers. As a former tournament committee member, you armor your events up as much as you can, but there's always ways to cheat. You have to try to think like a real gutter worm to foil all their possible plots.
I guess there are so many ways you can cheat, hard to stop. Years ago, heard a rumor that a top musky tournament team had modified the fuel tank on their big Ranger 620. The story was they reduced the size of the fuel cell by over half and used the resulting space for a hidden live well. (This was when transport tourneys were the norm)
They would put fish caught pre-fishing in the hidden live well and pull them out during the tournament. How the heck would officials find that? |
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Posts: 498
Location: Ludington, MI | COs here caught a guy with a special coat during ice season. He would go out and put 25 bluegills in his bucket and 25 extra in the pockets of his modified long winter coat. He would have got away with it, too, if he didn't make twice-a-day trips. Good fisherman, too, sadly. Made a dent. |
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Location: 31 | Fishing tournament cheating scandal: Runyan and Cominsky face felony charges : NPR
Years ago I was talking to Jan Eggers (the pike ferret) and he mentioned that when he was a young lad he had heard of someplace in Europe that continuously produced these enormous pike every year. He was excited to fish there and went two years in a row, but was only able to catch about the same size pike he was catching locally. Subsequently he found out that some guy had actually caught a large pike somewhere else and entered it in the contest ~ and won a large grand prize. The huckleberry was so greedy though that he actually entered the same fish that he had froze in the same contest the following year and was caught. Anyway, Jan said he noticed a distinct trend of wherever there were a lot of large fishing contests, the fish always seemed to trend larger during tournaments. We concluded that fishing contests are the main reason we still have those bogus world records from Hayward on the books.
Though not directly related to tournaments: We had an annual large fundraiser for the FRV chapter in the 1980s and one of our member's grandsons won the top prize the first year, everybody was happy for him until the following year when the grandfather pulled the winning ticket (again) and his grandson won the top prize (among others again). The grandson had also been running the monthly raffle for the chapter for years, when he showed up at the next meeting I relieved him of this duty. The raffle immediately began netting about twice as much and the family never showed up at another meeting again. |
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Posts: 332
Location: Selkirk, Manitoba | A similar weight stuffing happened at a musky tournament apparently in Hayward a while back based on this old "documentary" I found. Smart kid figures it out (1:07:22).
https://youtu.be/GtBZe-IY_sE?t=4042
Edited by Angling Oracle 11/3/2022 11:52 AM
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Location: WI | Angling Oracle - 11/3/2022 11:50 AM
A similar weight stuffing happened at a musky tournament apparently in Hayward a while back based on this old "documentary" I found. Smart kid figures it out (1:07:22 ).
https://youtu.be/GtBZe-IY_sE?t=4042
Thought I was going to see a movie on Louie Spray when I clicked that link. |
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