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Posts: 31
| Just watched a video where a guide critiqued his clients "jammed up" figure eights while he had the whole back deck of the boat to himself. His clients got to fish shoulder to shoulder on the front deck. He figure eighted fish his client brought to the boat. Glorious figure 8s at that. Lots of room to work with on the back deck. He also caught all the fish. Just seems backwards. Why not have a client on the front and back deck so their figure 8s DONT get all jammed up and they are able to have room to get a good hookset.
A good guide doesn't need to fish to figure out the pattern... . . Period. As generous, noble and heartfelt as that sounds it's hogwash. However, I totally understand if a client wants the guide to fish. I have hired guides and asked / preferred that they fished. Just wanted to see more action and excitement I guess.
Why are muskie guides the only guides that need to also fish to "figure out the pattern." Are muskies simply more unpredictable and difficult to pattern than other species?
Edited by cabbage 7/11/2020 12:11 AM
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Posts: 121
Location: Twin Cities Metro | cabbage - 7/10/2020 11:08 PM
Just watched a video where a guide critiqued his clients "jammed up" figure eights while he had the whole back deck of the boat to himself. His clients got to fish shoulder to shoulder on the front deck. He figure eighted fish his client brought to the boat. Glorious figure 8s at that. Lots of room to work with on the back deck. He also caught all the fish. Just seems backwards. Why not have a client on the front and back deck so their figure 8s DONT get all jammed up and they are able to have room to get a good hookset.
Getting jammed wasn’t all about being shoulder to shoulder in that video. It was because the guy wasn’t used to figure eighting a top water with a 10ft rod. That’s why the guide was telling him to step back to give himself some space when the bait was close to the boat, then step forward when the bait was away from the boat. Also, with those 10 foot rods, everyone needs to “desynchronize” their casts. The figure eights are all so wide that even people in the back of the boat can get in people’s way. It was good advice.
Anyway, when I have been out with a guide, I want them to fish if they feel like it. I want them to put me on fish, critique my technique, shoot the breeze, and answer my questions. But I still think of musky fishing as a team sport. I want the boat to have slime in it, even if I didn’t hook up. I don’t think of it as paying for a fish, or even paying for chances at a fish. Basically, I am paying an expert to be my fishing buddy for that outing. That way it can be a fun day on the water even if I don’t put one in the boat.
Obviously different people can have completely different expectations for a day with a guide. That was mine.
Cheers,
Bob |
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Posts: 183
| RobertK - 7/11/2020 12:30 PM
Anyway, when I have been out with a guide, I want them to fish if they feel like it. I want them to put me on fish, critique my technique, shoot the breeze, and answer my questions. But I still think of musky fishing as a team sport. I want the boat to have slime in it, even if I didn’t hook up. I don’t think of it as paying for a fish, or even paying for chances at a fish. Basically, I am paying an expert to be my fishing buddy for that outing. That way it can be a fun day on the water even if I don’t put one in the boat.
Obviously different people can have completely different expectations for a day with a guide. That was mine.
Cheers,
Bob
I'm all about somebody in the boat catching one if its my dad or friends, but not really somebody im paying. I probably wouldnt do a guided trip by myself though. The problem is how well can they critique your technique and such if they are also focused on fishing themselves. The one trip Ive done the guide was 90% vertical jigging in the back which i was totally fine with since thats easy to be aware of everything else thats going on. |
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | 'A good guide doesn't need to fish to figure out the pattern... . . Period.'
I guided for 20 years. This depends on the skill set of the clients. Some (in fact, most) of my clients re-hired me over the years, and developed the skills needed to know when and where to cast and how to work the techniques necessary for that day and the conditions, so unless I was expected to, I didn't fish.
Patterns change by the minute, day, and week many times requiring some checking to confirm or deny. Some days something as simple as a slight wind change from SW to S would cause me to have everyone wind up, change lures, and move to another area trying for a specific fish or area I knew to hold fish.
Explaining to clients how to work a bait, cast (even learn how to cast so they can get the lure going fast enough), retrieve at the correct speed and lay down a grid of casts over a targeted area most times didn't work well. Showing them did. Once the water was getting covered properly I'd sit down and control the boat if that was the client's preference. I controlled the boat from the bow, and intentionally left the water I expected to hold a fish to the clients. I don't remember ever figure 8ing a fish a client brought to the boat, though. |
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Posts: 267
| Howdy,
If the client wants the guide to fish, great, problem solved and the customer is always right. But if the customer does not want that, there is no legitimate basis for the guide to fish. The argument that they need their bait in the water to learn the pattern is hogwash, especially when they are on the water everyday.
Even if true, who reels in the fish once it's hooked? If the guide hands off the rod to one of the paying clients that's at least redeemable, even desirable. But if the paying client has to then net the guides fish, thats a farce. Again, if you're fine with that, rock on its your charter for the day. In reality, however, a lot of people are not fine with that but are too polite and too conflict averse to say anything.
In the end, its your money so do what makes you happy. But without question, the best guides on the water focus on their client catching fish 100% of the time and give the client repeated opportunities for that to happen, period. Giving the client first crack at the fish, and then landing it yourself, is bush league in my opinion.
Take care,
Ruddiger
Edited by Ruddiger 7/12/2020 7:53 AM
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Posts: 33
| My regular guide is similar. Prefers to run the boat and watch clients very closely. With me, he knows he’s welcome to fish at any time.
But his approach works. I have seen him get my son and several others with less experience bit and convert fish they would have been very unlikely to land on their own. He’s right on top of it, watching retrieves, subtle wakes, low follows, figure eight triggers, etc. to maximize their chances. |
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Posts: 613
Location: Michigan | I think a lot depends on how many clients there are and how skilled those clients are as well. If it's just me then I would definitely want the guide to fish and try different baits, colors, etc. If there are two or three clients then I could see the guide not fishing. Personally, I always like having the guide fish as it's just another bait in the water and more information to figure out what is happening that day. |
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