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| Message Subject: Theory on Steep Breaks? | |||
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| Its no secret that when late fall rolls around, the steep breaks become a popular musky hangout. Yes, they can be caught other places.... but any theories as to why the breaks SEEM to be more productive late in the year? I don't focus on breaks exclusively in the fall, but I do mix them in more frequently in my search for a fatty. Wish I new WHY a musky would favor a breakline over something else. Curious what other people think. Anything special to look for? Steeper the better? Rocks vs. Sand? North, south, east or west facing? Adjacent to large shallow flats? Tight to shore? Far from shore? Please share your theories, ideas, and experiences for fishing breaklines. Thanks! jlong | |||
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| I fish one lake in particulr that is just about one continuous steep breaking shoreline. I'm convinced that the fish that suspend during warmer water periods simply head toward shore and set up just off the break where they find their comfort level, waiting for baitfish to venture out off the break and into open water. Almost every fish that I catch or come in contact with along those breaks looks like a submarine launched missle. They come straight up from under the bait, grab it....or try to... and do a 180 and head straight back down with it. Perfect ambush setup for the fish hanging off the steep breaks. This technique works in the summer as well on lakes that don't have much structure or weedbeds. Just my 2 cents. Beav | |||
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| Jason, I don't know for sure but could it be that the shad, whitefish etc. use the steeper breaks during and after hte spawn? Also on the steeper breaks close to shore is where the salamanders migrate to the lakes. I know that a jig and plastic lizard on these steep breaks in the Fall can be a killer pattern. | |||
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| Something I have noted over the years fishing in the late fall. The steep breaks that almost never hold a fish all year........hold fish in November.[;)] Why, I will never know, but I even heard Dorazio say that once too.[;)] Salamanders......hmmmmmmmmm, Hey Schwartz....I want a black Slammer deep diver with yellow dots...[:bigsmile:] | |||
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| My two cents: Had good success last fall fishing the bottom of the steep breaks, especially out a ways at the bottom transition. I think they are great focal points for bait fish like suckers (a lot in my lake) and perch. I think the steeper breaks also have a more pronounced bottom transition then a gradual slope. Good concentration of baitfish=big muskies! Another lake I fished last year that had very steep breaks and the fish would come up out of no where once the baits cleared the break....the ambush theory mentioned above. These are not new theories but one more persons agreement with this belief as to why steep breaks are good in the fall. I will attempt to prove this theory this weekend!! Cory | |||
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| Why...I'm not sure but there are some interesting theories here. On the attached picture you will notice a very steep break, look at how the bottom transitions from Rock to Sand/silt (it's where the grey line disapears) That bottom transition area absolutely "rocks" during the fall. The muskies follow those things like a sidewalk as do the baitfish which is why the muskies are there. This picture was taken in late June to show thermocline on a sonar when I do my presentations,that is all the clutter you see. Yes that is a fish at 13' just above the thermocline at the bottom trasition area. If you would go to that spot now the thermocline is gone and most likely along this edge you would graph some very heavy fish. Hey Smith...I'll show you where this is when you get moved here...You can almost see it from your house..[:bigsmile:] Mark | |||
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| Here is Marks photo of the bottom transition. Cory | |||
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| Looks like a fall spot I knew well on the river when I lived in E.C. Mmmmm??? Rod Rod...I"m editing this comment to your post just to satisfy your curiosity. That picture is along the rock bar on Long Lake just north of South Island. But yes the river has lots just like it. Mark | |||
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| Here's my thought. Once the water cools and the thermocline breaks down(start of the cool water period - below 50/55)many baitfish (suckers/ciscoes) once confined to deeper cool water now have access to the entire water column. This dispersment of bait coupled with the need to feed puts the muskies on the hunt. Muskies are only hunting (just like us as musky hunters) and they use breaklines as travel routes, they swim along these breaklines in search for food. Often other good fall spots (points, inside turns, weeds, rocks) are just holding or collection areas that a breakline leads to. Steep breaks offer several advantages: -They are gateways to a classic structural element and can be good anytime of the year. -Often associated with cisco spawning areas, ciscos will migrate to these breaks at night and back to open water in daytime weeks before they actually spawn. -Sometimes muskies only safehaven providing quick access to deepwater (specially in fall when weeds/reeds die off). -And it makes them happy. Kevin Cass Lake, MN [:)] | |||
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| So are breakline bruisers cruising the breaks for either traveling or hunting purposes....... OR are they setting up in ambush mode on these structures???? If they are traveling... where are they going? If they are hunting... why do they need to "cruise"? If they are ambushing... what is their target? I fish a 300 acre lake that is one continuous breakline all the way around the lake. Any tips on how to reduce the amount of miles I need to cover in order to consistently contact those late fall fatties? I can't troll, so what should I look for to determine where to start casting??? Thanks. | |||
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| I agree with what everyone is saying about baitfish, hard to soft bottom transition, but could it be that the fall steep break bite is somewhat of a self fulfilling prophecy. I mean just about every post states that in the fall the steep breaks become targeted areas. Do we know that these fish are not there in the summer?? I agree, they are definately there with more regulartiy in the fall than in the summer, I have however caught them there in the summer. One more piece of the puzzle for several of my favorite lakes is cribs. It seems that back in the 70's and 80's a favorite spot for crib placement was on steep breaking shorelines! I do far better on shorelines with cribs than without. Good luck and God bless. John Oneida Esox Guide Service | |||
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| Oneida, you know me too well (ha ha). I don't see any sound evidence so far to suggest that steep breaks are any better in the fall than all other times of the year. But, that is why I am asking WHY do muskies use these structures. If we have any inkling why, it will help identify a better window of opportunity for when to fish these common structures. The days are too short during late fall to get on a mile long breakline and just go. I'm looking for a little more precision to this technique. jlong | |||
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| The only reason that makes sense to me is that the rock wall warms from the sun which doesn't get straight overhead in the fall. I would think that a wall which faces the sun would be the best. Just my ideas. | |||
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| Steep breaklines definitly hold more fish in the fall. I raised a huge fish last Nov on such a spot - fished it all season this year and never saw a fish - then in the past two weeks I'm seeing fish again - had a big one up yesterday. I don't know why but real steep breaks with rock/rubble hold fish in the late fall. | |||
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| I like to take these mile long steep breaklines and narrow them down to small holding areas. Generally, even along a mile long steep breakline there will be part of it that is steeper than the rest. Or parts with some green weeds (even if its a small amount) or rocks & gravel along this mile long section. Or even a small kick or turn in a otherwise arrow straight breakline. These are the spots that a fish will move up on from the deeper water or hold a fish traveling along it. This takes a great amount of work and time you will need to devote to your lake to know it well. If your a family man like me, you will find yourself leaving for the waters very late after the kids are in bed and the wife has been satisfied. It will mean getting up very early and being back to make breakfast for the family. My favorite, allthough costly, is sending out the wife and kids on a shopping spree on a nice hot flat calm spring day in the middle of the afternoon. This gives me a few hours to investigate a breakline for these spots. One thing about steep breaks to remember, as themselves alone, are attractive to all fish because of there sheer vertical makeup. This alone above all is an attractant. Cold water bass fisherman know this well. I think of steep breaks much like any other structural element such as a boulder pile or weedbed. I just think of them as a deepwater element. Kevin Cass Lake, MN [:)] | |||
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| How does aquatic insect migrations to the deep soft bottoms in the winter from the shallow weedbeds affect a steep break being a good location? Are soft bottom areas typically found at the base of steep breaks? Are the ones with soft bottoms at the base more productive than those with hard bases? I looked at Mark's pic of the bottom transition on his Garmin and wondered if the Muskies aren't really crusing the transition as much as they are cruising to find their forage which is following the insects/larvae that they feed on down to the soft bottom after the shallow weed beds die off. You find Perch over the mud flats maybe the Muskies are following the perch or other forage sources? Is there a lot to be found by way of insects and larvae in the mud bottoms during cold/hard water periods? I'm not real clear on that but thought it could be the case. Just a thought. Actually, just some questions! Can anyone help me out with some answers? Thanks. Jono | |||
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| The comment about how the food chain reacts also begs a question about the dynamics of the turnover process - how does turnover affect these steep break areas? Joe Bucher wrote an article about the steep breaks a while back where he stated that these spots may only hold fish for a couple weeks each fall. Seems to me this time period is very close to, or just after turnover. Does the turnover process temporarily push all the forage to the hard-bottom areas along the base of the steep breaks, and then they dispurse again in a week or two? | |||
| jlong |
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Posts: 1937 Location: Black Creek, WI | Has anyone's theory changed since last fall? This was a great discussion worth having again if you ask me. I'm becoming precariously suspicious that the hard/soft transition gives merit to the "bug theory" which possibly could be related to forage (suckers and even cisco) movements. So many breaks.... so little time. jlong | ||
| sworrall |
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Posts: 32886 Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I fish the really sharp breaks all year, and find super sharp dropoff AREAS productive any part of the season. The actual physical properties of a sharp break dictates a relatively hard bottom ( usually rock, gravel, or sand) to the breakline, and reasonably hard at the transition line. The softer bottom going from marl to muck is usually not on the baseline. I find the bottom transitions are usually more subtle, and are several yards from the break at the basin line, unless the sharp break actually drops off to that point. Are there more fish on these sructures in the fall? I don't really think so. I have had 5 fish days in August on sharp breaks, just have to locate the water column area the fish are using. On Pelican, for example, there is a breakline around the entire lake that is at 18'. Many times the muskies in July will be at 18', but out a few yards over 21 to 25 on the really steep structure. Bone Lake off the sharp breaks on the sand bars is another example. These fish don't get much pressure, because they appear to be 'in the middle of nowhere'. That pattern really never set up well for me this year, probably because we had reasonably cool water temps and reasonably cloudy water all year. I am certain the bug idea sometimes applies, mostly to insects that live in the mud. Most of the forage relating to these insects that I target are weed/marl related feeding on the may fly or other similar larvae. If there is ANY weed along the transition on many of the lakes I fish, these insects will be there, holding the forage in the area. Sometimes the perch will school up out over the deep mud on insects there, too. WInnebago is a classic example. Last Saturday Slamr and I found the fish along VERY sharp breaks on three areas of Pelican. We moved a bunch and caught 3 on a breakline that is solid rock, with boulders the size of cars in some areas. The fish were relating to the 6 to 15' primary break there. (Another identical area had some, but less forage , and we moved no fish there despite the conditions looking right.) Spot two was on a sharp break from 6 to 34', with a weedline edge. We moved a couple and caught a 42". Those fish were in 12' to 18', away from the weedline in 6 to 10'. Spot three was a sand breakline from 4' to 34' in about a cast and a half. I moved a pig, and we saw a couple others coming from about 6'. All were relating to perch, of that I am sure. Where we moved the fish, there were schools of little perch everywhere. These spots are AREAS I fish all season long, and move big fish consistently. I rarely see other anglers pounding these areas until fall. | ||
| jlong |
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Posts: 1937 Location: Black Creek, WI | Hmmmm... so the breaks aren't any better in the fall than the rest of the season? Steve, are you suggesting that the "steep breaks in the fall" pattern is basically a self fulfilling prophecy... like the black bucktail? More guys start fishing the breaks in fall... thus more fish caught there? I've had the perception that something was concentrating fish on the breaks after turnover. My guess was SUCKERS. Perhaps I should start snooping other corners of the lake as well??? jlong P.S. Steve if you invested just as much time pounding the weeds on the west end of Pelican last week... do you think you would have found just as many fish as you did on the breaks? Just curious. | ||
| sworrall |
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Posts: 32886 Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | We did pound the weeds, but selected weedlines on VERY sharp breaks, which is what I do there most of the year. Sunday Slamr and I moved a very very very very nice fish in 6', with 35' a casting distance away. Nwild moved a pig in 3' off a reed/weedline, with the breakline over 25yards away, so yes, the fish do adhere to Steve Van Lieshout's edict that in Muskie angling there is only one rule: There are no rules. I think you have it in the last post, in my opinion. One of the original Creature patterns in the late 70's and today was and is VERY sharp 'clean' breaks all year long. I have them to myself most of the season. | ||
| firstsixfeet |
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Posts: 2361 | I'm not sure you guys really have it right, but I also don't see any clear answer to this. You have to consider the type of break and what it abuts to before explaining musky use. If the drop is off the edge of a flat, it becomes an ambush space, turn the structure on its side and it would be similar to a thug hiding around a corner with a knife, the victim has no visualization of the thug until he comes around the corner and by that time he may already be in range. My approach to these types of breaks are generally targetting fish at the edge of these and actually I look at the just under and just over the lip. I don't spend a lot of time considering the fish halfway down the slope, or at the bottom of the slope. I don't consider those active fish positions. If the steep drop goes shoreline to basin you have a different set of circumstances. On the S to B drop there should be fish using it all year IF there is a lot of suspended forage in the lake(ie ciscoes or any lake basin where there are few flats above the thermocline on one story lakes). In this case the slope may have the only cover or concealment available to musky and gives them something to lie against to help break their outline further. Also offers some security. The fish may not be tied to the drop in any certain area though, and may just roam the basin when feeding to increase the frequency of forage encounters, so that feeding fish populations in this type of lake are actually weighted to the open basin rather than the breakline(the breakline may be the resting/security areas in this type of lake when the thermocline is present). The two other uses that occur which would make me look at this type of break is of course spawning cisco or whitefish(not present where I fish), and travelling fish in lakes that have multiple and varied structures. The first case is obviously going to occur seasonally. The second case will probably occur every fall as the temperature drops and the fish populations move massively in response to dying cover sources(weeds), the breakdown of the thermocline(offering more volume to inhabit), increased feeding and population movements from summer to ? more stable winter ranges. In this situation the steep break offers a fence line to wander both for the predator and the prey and due to their exploratory movements at this time may increase the density of both on this type of cover seasonally. I have seen a lot of breaks that do not seem to hold any fish. Some that always hold some fish and some that occasionally hold fish. If there is some type of objects/cover on these breaks they seem to hold fish all the time. Where I fish it appears to me that ACTIVE fish actually hold on much less complex covers than do inactive fish, if there is a lot of cover to choose from. The only type of steep break I would always consider in my fishing is one that might be located between two bars coming off the shoreline. In this location I would always consider this break to have fish holding potential. | ||
| RK |
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Posts: 69 | Hiya, My $.02, and just speculation, but I think it has a lot to do with forage travel and places where muskies can contact forage in a narrow band of the water column. As someone else mentioned, and as has been well publicized, pelagic baitfish like Ciscoes start to come in out of the basin and move along the basin edge as the water gets colder and they get ready to spawn. I think they travel down those steep breaks. They travel over the more gradual breaks too of course, but I think it becomes harder for muskies to contact them there, and harder for fishermen to contact the muskies too frankly. Say schools of ciscoes are bopping along 11 or 12 feet down or so along the basin edge. On a gradual slope, they can roam over a much wider area (horizontally) along the break within that depth band. On a steep break, they're much more restricted in terms of horizontal distance. Steep breaks are like inside turns, but with a different orientation. Muskies can pin baitfish against the steep slope, and the sharper break concentrates the travel zone to a much narrower area. Besides ciscoes, I think perch and walleyes are there too, along with shiners and god knows what else. Food as far as muskies are concerned. Part of my thinking on this comes from fishing late fall and early ice walleyes. You find them in the same areas, and for the same reasons I think. Often the steepest portion of a break is the focal point of the activity, and fish can be found anywhere from the top lip of the break to the bottom transition out from the base of the break. This fall on Leech one of the local guides was catching walleyes in 71 feet of water on a steep break off the side of a large hump. Key contact areas become the base of the break and the top lip. One really interesting deal though is how things can vary in terms of where the fish are in the water column in relation to the breaks. It's pretty common to find fish suspended out from the break but at the level of the lip or the level of a shelf or something on the drop itself, even a fair distance away from the drop. Something I think happens with muskies too based on experiences trolling spots like this in the fall. Troll from spot to spot, and sometimes (especially in clearer water) you get wacked either as you just troll into an area (boat is approaching the break and baits are 100ft out from it) or out of an area (boat is 200 ft from the top of the break and baits are 130-140 feet off it.) Fish aren't necessarily 'on' the break, but still relating to it in terms of depth. Just some random thoughts... RK | ||
| MRoberts |
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Posts: 714 Location: Rhinelander, WI | I’ll chime in here a little. I agree that there can be fish on these breaks all year long. Just like there can be fish in the weeds, on the rocks or over open water at anytime. But, there is no doubt that there are certain times of the year that each type of structure come to the fore front as the go to spot to fish for that time of year. Weed beds have it in early spring, open water takes over for a few weeks in mid to late June, then the weeds have it again. Then after the water temps peak the rocks seem to start really getting hot and then after turnover it seems to be all about the breaks. Does that mean it’s the only place to catch fish NOWAY. There are NO rules. For some reason the steep breaks get hotter in the fall and I don’t feel it’s because I fish them more in the fall. I try to keep structure honest while fishing the hot pattern, all year. I have spent a lot of time fishing steep breaks at all times of the year the most consistent time to fish them is the fall, there is no doubt in my mind about that. So why do they turn on more in the fall. I believe that it is a concentration issue. I feel that because of things going on in the lakes, turnover, weeds dieing, suckers and other cool water fish venturing shallower, and muskies moving out of the weeds and in from the depths, with the bait, all play a part in concentrating the bait and hunters on the steep breaks. Also what do crayfish do as the water gets colder, don’t they dig in and hibernate. I am wondering if this doesn’t also affect the food chain as some of my best steep breaks are hard bottom with soft bottom at the bottom of the break. Could the fish ski and bait be there picking off migrating crayfish as they move to the bottom of the break to dig in for winter. Just one more possible piece of the puzzle. Nail A Pig! Mike | ||
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