Hey Doc!

Glad to see you online, must be getting cold up there.

I represent no majority, nor am I silent, but will say this:

The Muskie boards have WAY more traffic than most think. I am amazed at the numbers who visit here, outnumbering the total serious Muskie anglers I had thought were out there at all, let alone on the WWW.

Muskie's Inc had and has a very strong association with competitve angling since it's beginning, including the Lunge Log, the now defunct International contest (went to club based contests) Club Tournies, and Spring and Fall Classic events hosted by many clubs or the International. The very strength and scope of MI's reach has had, and will have, quite a bit to do with the events sponsored by the Organization. The debate here is between clubs and an umbrella organization, and those who are associated with the Sport of competitve angling, which addresses a fairly widely read public.

I would argue that the majority is NOT 'against' competitive angling. I submit the average guy who fishes three to ten times a year for Muskies doesn't really have a strong opinion either way. The serious angler, however, is more vocal, and seems from the industry data available, to for the most part at least tolerate competitive angling by virtue of silence, or support the concept by actually fishing an event or two.

There are three events up here that field over 1500 anglers combined,  are popular with the local media, those here reading this board, and muskie anglers who will NEVER wet a line in Wisconsin. One event in Minnesota draws over 900 anglers!

Also, SPONSORS DO NOT make money in any direct sense from tournaments. They do, however, SPEND a bunch! Most of the money spent is dedicated to the event, and the Sponsors are there to help grow the sport, secure additional interest from the new or prospective anglers, and introduce Muskie related Products to the angling public. There are few other venues these days that actually acheive that purpose, like it or not. This is, after all, a Capitalist economy, and is democratic (litle d) in at least concept. Every kid who graduated high school had at least a bit of the 'guns/ butter' economic model, so it shouldn't surprise or dismay anyone when the companies who build the equipment Muskie anglers use promote same through whatever venue is available.

Tournament Promotors like the PMTT, Hodag, Muskie's Inc, Pauls Pro AM, Rollie and Helen's, and a long list of others have WIDELY ranging goals in mind. The R&H events boasted a 100% payback. The Hodag has about 80%, and is designed to bring new life to a choking and nearly deceased tourism economy. MI uses funds raised to operate clubs, etc. The PMTT is a 'Pro' team format, and is for profit, for certain, with a fairly low payback percentage. The WMT, Hartman's Circuit, and others are for profit as well, but do not raise anywhere near enough for the Promoter to give up his day job.

The tournies out there today are popular enough to come close to filling in most cases. I wouldn't disagree that a non tournie angler would find it upsetting that 'his' chosen lake had an event going on on any given day, but the fact that the fish ARE public domain based on PRIVELEDGE granted by the Federal and State Fish and Game sets the stage for usage.

I submit that Muske angling is where it is today because of competitive angling. Equipment, boats and motors, line, lures, sonars, and more have been developed in the competitve environs surrounding tournaments since the mid-70's. States have improved management techniques, and have become far more aware of the fishery and it's popularity as a result.

This debate used to surround Guides as a result of a DIRECT money in the public domain connection. Now, the ire is directed at tournie anglers. Yet it is those same Guides and Tourney anglers who are widely read in EA, Musky Hunter,  In Fish publications, and more. It is those same personalities one sees on television on Saturday and Sunday morning, and at the winter sports shows up on the stage. It is those same personalities owning, pomoting, and growing many muskie tackle companies. In short, this is a classic example of American entrepreneurship at it's finest.

So the debate will rage between those who are dedicated enough to either side of the issue to stick out their collective necks, the industry and competitive anglers will continue to support well run events; the sport, it's range, and scope will grow as a result.

AND!

The 'silent majority' will be claimed by both camps precisely because they ARE silent.

Just to clarify.

I am a tournament fisherman.

I am a fisherman.

I guide.

I am a Muskies Inc. member.

I care about Muskies more than a normal human should.

I respect others opinions.

The whole Minnesota Muskie Alliance issue and the reason I have brought it online is not about tournaments.

It's simply about lying.

Let me explain... 

The Facts:

#1 When the alliance was formed it did a survey. It listed 8-10 things that the member chapters were supposed to vote on as of importance. Musky Tournaments was one of these issues. According to the co-chairs themselves the tournament issue finished DEAD LAST. The alliance has admitted it has been to bogged down getting the first year underway to address other issues. (Like allowing other member groups ie: Lake associations, resort associations, angler associations to have a voice in this alliance. Guess that's a whole nother issue but is definitly related)  Yet the one thing that the Alliance has decide to go after was the one that was voted of LEAST importance.

#2 The alliance has conveyed through a meeting with the DNR that the alliance AS A WHOLE support the fact that tournaments that feature judge boats be banned. I have talked with 3 different chapters of the 11 member chapters that have said they NEVER gave this opinion to the co-chairs. In fact of the board members I have talked to they never even heard of the whole issue.

#3 In questioning the alliance co chair John Skarie he stated in a email directly to me "He didn't need approval" He also wasn't sure who was at the alliance meeting where this was discussed and no minutes were taken because the secretary was not in attendance.

#4 In a cell phone conversation with Co-chair Rollie Olson he states that he recalled that the letter and conversation related to the "Simply Fishing" tournament on Vermilion only.

Those are facts.

My opinion:

Two of three representatives of the MMA that met with the DNR are very anti big $$$ tournament and will say that direct. They have taken their own personal agenda and put it as #1 for the alliance.

Lastly...

I have received phone threats about running a tournament in MN. I still won't shut up. I've been told I will be ruined in my tackle business and I'll never guide again. I still won't shut up. If the membership of the alliance decides as a majority this is something that they agree with. I will accept it and support it and then I will shut up. This isn't about me.

This isn't about tournaments.

This is about someone else deciding what's best for others and the fish, WITHOUT consent.  This is America and everyone is entitled to an opinion and a voice. Tournaments may need to make some changes, so do we as anglers. Do you want someone else deciding for you what you can or can't do without asking you? Do you want them to decide for you without ANY scientific fact?

 What if they decide that Muskies are so rare you need a special permit like big game to fish for them? No hooks cause it can kill them? No pictures? No measurements? No fishing....

Steve Cady

Doc,

Many of the big names in the sport are guides and do not fish tournaments at all, some are guides and fish a few. I fall in to the latter catagory, but am not what is now identified as a 'big name'.

I would also argue that guides do pressure water more than competition. I know I sure did when I was full time on Pelican, with several years where the boat total broke 100 legals off that water alone. The overall average  for Muskie tournaments actually shows a catch ratio to boats of approximately 10%, so it would take 10 -100 boat events to equal the CPR totals I had in my boat every year, and I was not the only guide out there. 15% of the boats registering fish is very good, and anything more indicates a great bite or tremendous numbers in that particular system.

I do not feel many muskies are killed by tournaments, and have felt that way for a very long time. Far more are taken by anglers who want to, or accidently killed by inexperienced folks who catch one accidently with no release gear onboard and beat it to death in the attempt to release it.

I actually helped start a couple events years ago that are still running, and can count on one hand the fish we knew we lost over 20 years or more, with a total in one event of over 4500 anglers on one lake; competing over 18 years of this one day event. There have been VERY few reports of 'floaters' after any event I am familiar with, and many were held on my home waters, so if there were any, I would have known about them. In my VERY humble opinion, the new judge boat format takes the CPR of Muskies in tournaments to a beyond-the-pale level. To argue that a few minutes, or even a half hour in a net in the water will kill a fish is totally unfounded, and flies in the face  of common fisheries management  handling practices every year during the boom shocking and fyke netting process.

'Stress' is a commonly used noun to describe what we do to the fish as we capture them, and to an extent, it is correct. BUT, fish do not have the intelect to experience any stress except the physical sort (which the fish will experience whether caught by a tournament angler or another accomplished Muskie fisherman), and the new monster nets, judge boats, and release tools remove most of that.

It's really great to debate this issue with you, sir, I have missed your input on the board!

I do not understand, how am I exploiting a resource if I am in a tournament? There IS no harvest, all fish are released. Is it because we are using a public waterway? Am I not part of the public, fishing a lake because I choose to, as the event is held there? Is this not part of a priveledge granted me by the fish and game department? Would a  trick skiing tournament, sail boat race, or other event on the water require giving back to the resource?  I have had to duck sailboats on many ocasions, and powerboat rallys, jetski rallies, etc. How about the all the non competing anglers? If this analogy holds true, then what about hunting outfitters and guides? Many use public forest areas. Every time I buy a license or incur a state user fee for the out of doors, my money goes to the DNR, ergo resouce.

If this is true, then all guides and outfitters, all resort owners, camp owners, all should be required to give back, big time.

Keep in mind, the money these guys are fishing for is their own. It comes out of their entry fee. No public money is involved. AND! One has to win to benefit much, and only a few get any payout. The promoters? What have they done to owe the public trust? Nothing more than organize an event that I choose to pay to be a part of, and bet I will win my own entry fee back, and maybe a bunch of my peer's, as well.

Shep,

You have me there, LOTS of time in the deer stand to think!