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Posts: 2687
Location: Hayward, WI | In the last few years I've had good luck cranking and ripping Depthraiders into shallow rock on LOTW when the bucktail bite isn't going strong. The problem is in the last few years I broke off twice on fish and as far as I know possibly left the baits in the fish. Terrible feeling for sure and I don't want to repeat it.
1st time figured it was a fluke as I felt the line drag a rock on the hookset but last year saw the line break when I got hit boatside. Didn't take much pressure to break either.
It's frustrating because I re-tie very frequently when using this technique. Either when I notice some fraying or if it's just been a while.
I know braid isn't particularly abrasion resistant, but wondering if anybody has suggestions to be able to continue to use this technique with less chance of line breakage. Currently using 80 lb Masterbraid. Thought about going to 100 lb for a little added insurance but not sure it would make much difference. Wondered if something like Sufix 832 would be better but again kind of doubt it.
Anyway, I'd be open to hearing any suggestions.
Tucker |
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Posts: 1348
Location: Pewaukee, WI | Maybe it isn't the rock(s) that frayed your line, but rather a damaged or chipped eyelet.
Try taking a cue tip and rubbing it around each eyelet. If you encounter a damaged eyelet it will snag or fray the cotton head of the cue tip. Once you've identified the bad eyelet you can have it replaced and you'll be back in business. Just a thought. |
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Posts: 2687
Location: Hayward, WI | Good thought. I was going to mention that as well. Have checked guides and tip top and all are smooth. Also happened with 2 different rods and reels. Have never broken line fishing around home or using other techniques that don't bang rocks consistently.
Maybe I just need to back off some. I'm really working hard to grind and rip those Depthraiders into the rocks. That line is down in the danger zone a lot. I feel that the bait bouncing and crashing into and over rocks is generating the strikes, but I'll really be upset with myself if history repeats a 3rd time.
Tucker |
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Posts: 32934
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I'd suggest a longer heavy fluorocarbon leader if hte break is caused by banging the rocks. Most failures doing that are in the first 30" of line and leader. More of a pain to cast at first, but not hard to get used to. |
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Posts: 682
Location: Sycamore, IL | How far above your leader is it breaking?
If it's not very far you could tie a double line knot using a bimini twist or spider hitch to give you a backup in case one line gets frayed.
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| it's funny because braid is supposed to be junk against rock vs mono but when i use scissors,knife or anything sharp the braid give me a lot more trouble to cut than mono. of course rock is not a knife but ....... |
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Posts: 2687
Location: Hayward, WI | I thought about using a longer fluoro leader. A 30 inch leader may be enough to solve the issue but figure 8s would be tough I think. Unless I tie direct using an FG knot which I could reel up. May be an option. I also like the idea of doubling the line up. I may do some testung with that as well. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | I'd go up to 100, and go with a big longer / stronger fluoro leader, say 18"-20" shouldn't hamper your 8s.. 100 lb won't really hurt anything.. even 130 might not be a bad idea.. not like you need to get 15 feet down
I banged rocks a ton last year and never broke... I'd triple check your line guides |
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Posts: 3508
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Hiya,
If this has happened to you over the course of a few years (2 times only), I'd say you are doing quite well overall. Assuming you are on the water a bunch when at lake of the woods, that is a lot of time bouncing around down there...
If the guides are good, I'd say up the line weight as well, but I think I'd be darn sure to be looking at my line every so often to see if abrasion is happening and where it is happening. It may mean you retie every couple of hours while removing about 2 - 3 feet of line or so (possibly more depending on the amount of abrasion) and bring an extra spool of line along just in case a replacement is needed.
In the days of dacron, it was a retie after every fish... Probably a good habit to get back into (note to self...). still although these lines of today are much stronger.
Steve |
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Posts: 3508
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | ...extra post of the same thing... |
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Posts: 2383
Location: Chisholm, MN | The only line I have broken on a rock is 832 so I wouldn't go that route. 100lb masterbraid is tough as nails. |
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Location: Eagle Lake Vermilion Bay, Ontario | i have had several jumbos lost (ask mike richards about one of the biggest fish i've had a guest have on) because of that i feel your pain. do everything rt bang and work hard get a fish to hit then OH NO WTF?? when banging rocks you need to be way more diligent in checking for frays .braid frays and breaks far more easiily on abrasive surfaces than especially floro. when cranking shallow real jagged shield rocks (vs rounded boulders or smooth granite) especially a diving bait like a raider,ernie,legend perch,etc can hit the base with the line hitting/rubbing on the top edge a few inches to as much as 2-3' above the leader. with eyelets getting smaller all the time its getting hard to a get smooth line to a long heavy floro leader connection to pass through the tip without a glitch unless you are very expereinced with your equip or it has big eyes and or you tie an FG and use a very long leader . the double line is the answer been using it and recomnding it to be on client cranbait rods come fall time for prob 15 yrs now ...after several similar expereinces with a big lost fish rt after strike and visually very apparent the reason and cause. for freshwater the spyder hitch is a snap to tie and plenty strong with 80-100# braid. for super fast,strong saltwater fish appls. the bimini is better if you can keep from hanging yourself trying to tie it ha! i usually tie i a double around 30" after a 18" leader for cranking and banging rocks...and it works..for trolling even with long 30'+ leaders i still tie a double when dragging and banging rocks all day. but...just remember if you are coming off shallow shelves with extreme breaks and you want to go down the break and achieve max depth of the bait the double line will take away maybe 1-2' off your depth curve and conversely if you want a bait to run 1'- 2 maybe 3' shallower say fishing over weeds with cranks or after dark you can shallow up your baits curve to your advantage with 30" + of double line.
good luck!!
steve herbeck |
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Posts: 2687
Location: Hayward, WI | Thanks for the suggestions everyone. Guides are good. Plus I only see line wear and this only happens when grinding deep diving cranks into jagged shield rock.
I think this year I'll go with 100 lb, doubled up, and an 18 to 20 inch leader. I've been dilligent about checking and re tying, and will continue to do so. I have a feeling the doubled up line will be enough extra strength/protection to help. |
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Posts: 612
| curleytail - 5/27/2018 8:10 AM
Thanks for the suggestions everyone. Guides are good. Plus I only see line wear and this only happens when grinding deep diving cranks into jagged shield rock.
I think this year I'll go with 100 lb, doubled up, and an 18 to 20 inch leader. I've been dilligent about checking and re tying, and will continue to do so. I have a feeling the doubled up line will be enough extra strength/protection to help.
I tie my leaders at ~ 18". This and due diligence in checking for frays should due it. If I see the 1st indication of any frays I cut off ~ 20' of braid. It's likely happened to most of us, part of fishing. Always another one out there. |
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Posts: 18
| Why do you guys prefer the shorter leaders? I was under the impression that 36" plus was the standard, better action? |
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Posts: 612
| thompwater - 5/28/2018 7:48 PM
Why do you guys prefer the shorter leaders? I was under the impression that 36" plus was the standard, better action?
If trolling yes. But a 3' leader is awkward when casting "in my experience". Personally if they could be 6" I'd go for it but have learned my lesson and found 16'' to 18" works fine. Hope that provides clarity  |
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Location: Eagle Lake Vermilion Bay, Ontario | due diligence is obviously first and foremost among serious musky hunters however.. the heartbreaking loses over the years i mentioned had plenty of that. its the strike and adrenaline pumping hookset and probably locked down drag immediately rt after the time the line comes in contact with the top jagged edge of the rock and the fray occurs that gets you without the double line... before you have a chance to check (which is when 90% of strikes occur when banging rocks). you can have both double lines frayed almost all the way though and it will be near as strong as your origional single line, or cut one almost or completely through and the other is independent and sucure.
**another tip with double lines.. if a longer protection type of double line for hard all day banging or trolling rocks isnt needed, for just everyday line to leader connections just make a 4-6" double line before tying your knot, your knot with be extra extra double strong and durable as well as the area wear could occur from your rod tip, incidental frays, gill rakers, or the infrequent but possible swallow the whole leader or miss the bait, just above the leader will be double protected too.
you could go a lifetime without it happening,or the one chance you've been living for happens,then.....every or any loss hurts so bad!! i've already lost enough sleep over the years.
steve herbeck |
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Posts: 2687
Location: Hayward, WI | I agree with Steve above. Believe me I've been dilligent in checking line and cutting off and retying frequently. My decreased spool capacity in a week of fishing proves it. But apparently that isn't enough. I will go to a longer leader as well, but I get significant wear more than 18 inches up the line as well. I think doubling the line will give some good added protection. |
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