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| In thirty years of muskie fishing I am still looking for that holy grail sucker rig..I have bought some bucher circle hooks and need feedback from anyone who has used them..thanks in advance for any input..H.K. |
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Posts: 6
Location: sheboygan,wi 53083 | i lost a 30 plus pounder on a bucher circle hook. made me sick for oh about the whole winter. somehow the point of the circle hook caught in the suckers sucker. i fought the beast for quite a while and she spit the sucker one foot from the net. then she turned and gave me the tail "finger in my mind" and dove for the abyss. |
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| Thanks ESOX..may there be healing in sharing..I will assume that was your last outing with the circle hook..anyone out there think they work? or should bucher stick to crankbaits.. |
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Location: Minneapolis, MN | For me the question is how boring is it to circle hook fish? I've watched several boats slowly follow them around after pickups and then slowly finesse the fish in toward the net. A couple times I don't think that fish new anything was wrong until she was in the net. To me that looks very BORING! Where's the fight and the fun? |
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Posts: 802
| i know i'm looking for trouble, but i've used them, and over 3 seasons i'm scoring 100% corner of the mouth hook-ups. i use the wolverine rigs with the smaller hook, as do many folks i know- and they all have had the same success as me. now don't get me wrong, my hookup percentage is not 100%, probably 60-70%. the the ones i catch are all hooked in the corner of the mouth. if i ever had one hooked else where i would give up on the circle hook rigs- but i firmly believe the hook is the key to more hookups and corner of the mouth hookups.
steve |
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| esox69..have you tried the bucher hook and are saying the smaller wolverine works better? |
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Posts: 2427
Location: Ft. Wayne Indiana | H.K.
Don't use circle hooks, use a quick strike rig. The Herbie Rig is one of the best.
Mike Hulbert
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Location: Illinois-Indiana | H.K.,
I make my own quick strike rig and have had great success with them.
A quick strike rig is just that a quick strike. When the fish takes the bait, there is no waiting for twenty minutes for them to swallow the bait, you hit them right away.
How often have you fished all day and then all of a sudden you get a window where you start seeing fish and catch a couple and then twenty minutes later you see nothing for another three hours. There is nothing like spending the whole feeding window waiting for a 30" fish to swallow your circle hook. GET MY POINT
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| MUSKIE FEVER..I have been making my own quick strike rigs for years..I always nail um right away..but still get about a 10% bad hook up and I gave up using suckers for a long time but I would still like to drag one sometimes, (where legal). I just will work on improving the rig..thanks for all the input...circle hooks are in the trash..tight lines Howie. |
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Posts: 3518
Location: north central wisconsin | I make my own quicksets too. I have however done some serious experimentation with circle and over 3 years have in the neighborhood of 40 or so hookups and uper 20's in the catch category. I did throat hook two fish(got the hook cut on both), and that is what keeps me from recommending them. I did like them in the shallow rocky, woody, weedy river sections i fish for their snag free aspect, but will not stend for throat hooking a musky. I went to a shorter wait time last fall(three minutes tops) and throat hooked none after that. I also noticed on one of the throat hooked fish that the batch of circle hooks I had were not perfectly 'in-line'. I think that has something to do with it too. I used them alot alongside my homemade quicksets, and did notice in certain waters that the fish hit the circle rigged bait more. I'll try them one more fall, and if I don't hook every fish in the corner with my 'improved' methods, its in the trash with them. |
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Posts: 239
Location: Madison, WI | I started experimenting with them late last year for pike on Lake Mendota. We have a 40" limit, 35"-42" pike are common. I was extremely pleased with the performance. 27#-40# wire leader with a 10/0 circle hook. Increased my hooking percentage over the quick strike rig and best of all every fish I caught was hooked perfectly in the corner of the mouth!
Advantages, less hardware on the sucker make them look more natural. I also had fewer hang ups on logs & weeds. I will mix them into my fall arsenal for muskie in the upcoming weeks.
I have reduced the amount of time I wait before setting the hook. Less then 5 minutes has been my general rule. It does not take a hungry fall fish long to eat. I'm with Reef Hawg, if I gut hook a fish I will dispose of my circle hook rigs accordingly. Both will be used this fall until I can determine which rig provides me the best opportunity to CPR healthy fish.
Good luck on the water! |
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Posts: 5874
| I've used circle hooks for several years, and without problem of foul hooking. However, I'm beginning to really like setting the hook that quick strike rigs provide. I think I have some pent up frustrations to take out on a couple fish this fall! |
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Posts: 736
Location: Hartford, WI | The biggest thing with circle hooks is making sure that the wire is in line. No offset to the hook at all. Mustad makes a great circle hook. Both Rigs have there place and Time.
Jim |
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| Maina's Lift Off Rig....great luck with it! I like it much better than the quick set rigs... |
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Posts: 147
Location: WI - Land of small muskies and big jawbones | If your intentions are to catch and release muskies safely so they live to fight another day, then I would have to ask why would anyone even consider circle hooks at all instead of quick strike rigs? With quick strikes you set the hook immediately so they don't swallow any hooks. Yes it is possible that a musky could swallow the sucker right away but in more than 10 years of using quick strike rigs, and quite a few fish in the boat using them, this has not happened to me once yet. If you let them swallow a circle hook it could get hooked in the stomach or throat and then its most certainly a dead fish. Quick strike rigs are the most widely accepted method of fishing for muskies using live bait and there is a reason for that. IT WORKS! Will you lose fish or not get hooks in them? Sure you will. Thats musky fishing. It happens all season long using artificial lures but we still use them. I've never used circle hooks so I have no experience with them but I think its more of a threat to the fish so I won't change. And another good point brought up was how some circle hooks are offset to increase hook ups. This also increases the chances of hooking them where it will injur or kill the fish. Sadly many circle hooks are already offset when you buy them. Not good. I'm nuts about musky fishing. |
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Posts: 802
| h.k-
no i haven't tried buchers, and am certainly not saying anything bad about them- i just know that wolverine uses the mustad demon circle hooks, which are THE hooks to use. and as noted above, it is absolutely essential that the hook shank and tip are in line, NO OFFSETS AT ALL! otherwise this will find soft tissue to grab, whether in the stomach or elsewhere. i'm not a fan of waiting real long either before taking the fish- in the heavy cover sometimes you can make a much cleaner presentation with very few snags using a circle rig, but i do use both.
steve |
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Posts: 231
| I hope Scott Allen (Hayward) doesn't mind me posting this here but I thought he had a great response on another web site about circle hooks. Here it is. If you are concerned for the perpetuation of the species through catch and release (which I know you are, based on your good release of a Big Chip 50+ incher this year), then do NOT use circle hooks. Circle hooks are swallow hook rigs and simply kill muskies -- maybe not at as high a kill rate as the standard swallow hook rig -- but they do kill a percentage of muskies that are hooked on them. So, I often ask, "why would anyone who believes in musky conservation ever use circle hooks"? There are many other well-known guides who have sworn off circle hooks. I'm not friendly with Pete Maina, but just ask him about his bad experiences with circle hooks. Personally, I had high hopes for circle hooks. I've used practically all of the variations (Diachii, Mustad, Blood, Eagle Claw, etc), and have had at least one bad experience with each of them -- whether they were in-line or offset. My clients and I gave them a fair shot, but when I saw the results I decided I would never use them again. In addition, you will miss a high percentage muskies on circle hooks -- that's bad for the fishermen, but good for the muskies that could have been gut and throat hooked on them. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying a high percentage are throat and gut hooked with circle hooks, but a moderate percentage are, so why use them? Larry brings up a point that some fishermen have claimed to have little problems with them. That may be, but my clients and I have personally witnessed two specific guides gut-hook muskies on circle hooks (saw the hooks stuck in the throat in one musky, and gut hooked with another). Circle hooks were originally used in salt water for Tarpon, etc. I Tarpon fish too, and have used them for Tarpon. The trouble is musky fishermen allow the muskies between 15-30 minutes to swallow circle hook rigged suckers Then they tighten the line (no-hookset) with the goal that the hook slides out of the stomach with the hope that the hook catches the musky in the corner of the mouth. Conversely, salt water fishermen tighten the line IMMEDIATELY and do NOT allow the fish to swallow the hooks. So, circle hooks are being used by musky fishermen in a way never intended for them to be used. And, they are killing a percentage of muskies. BOTTOM LINE: Do NOT use circle hooks. Use quicksets. There is a new quickset that has just come out. It is called a harpoon quickset rig. They are not widely available, but my clients and I have had a very, very high hook-up rate with them. Contact me, and I will put you in contact with the manufacturer. (no, I never met the manufacturer). I showed these to Larry last week, I think he liked what he saw. Howie, I can fill you in a bit more and will give you a number to contact on the harpoon rig. My number is: (715) 634-1034. Good Luck, Scott Allen [email protected] |
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| Scott Allen is a good guy to ask info from..he fishes the same water I do in Hayward..I trust him when he responded to the same question on the pastikas sight..do not use them..I was fooled by a few guides promoting circle hooks..tight lines Howie..pic of my 50 incher on the chip on the Pastikas sight. |
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Posts: 32959
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I have talked to several anglers who use circle hooks successfully and have NEVER gut or throat hooked a muskie on one. I think the jury is still definitely out on these. Proper use also seems to iindicate a short wait before taking up line, from what I have heard. Be VERY careful with authoritative reports that slam 'other guides' from anyone on the Chip. There are more politics over there than in Washington D.C. I know that one for sure...;) |
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Posts: 802
| sworrall-
you just beat me to the punch with your reply! yes there are a whole lotta politics going on over in that area, with the hatfield-mccoy syndrome running rampant.. i know many of the guides/anglers who use the circles, some of which were the ones who "pioneered" circles for muskies. they are damn good fishermen who have a true respect for the musky resource, so don't categorize anyone using them as ignorant, a meat hog, or a irresponsible angler. i think steve hit it right on the head: the jury is still out yet.
steve |
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Posts: 231
| Could somebody explain exactly how these circle hooks work. Do you still hook the sucker through the lips? If this is true isn't the muskie still at least partially swallowing the sucker? Wouldn't pulling a sucker back through the throught of the muskie still cause harm? Just because the hook ends up in the muskies lip doesn't mean you did no damage. |
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Posts: 20279
Location: oswego, il | Jimbo, you rig the hook to the nose of the sucker like a liftoff rig. The rubber band is supposed to break when you start reeling and the sucker stays in the musky.
I have tried them on shabbona because i was tired of losing all my rigs and suckers. I did not have any pickups so I have no experience with hookups but they sure do keep from hanging up in trees and cribs and the occasional one that does comes out. |
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