|
|
Posts: 2384
Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | Ben, that's a GREAT question. I've wondered the same thing. I would think that it wouldn't be that big of a deal since 1. there's a short time that's expired from strike to ingestion should suggest that it hasn't gotten very far. 2. if you do play the fish very hard at all the sucker tends to pop out from what I've been told. It's much less of a "fight" then if you were to hook one conventionally. Truth be told, we could probably count the number of anglers who are doing it on our fingers and toes so I'm not overly worried about it. |
|
| |
|
| Pointerpride102 - 10/4/2013 6:59 PM
It's a fish. The sun will rise in the morning, even if a musky dies.
same for humans |
|
| |
|
Posts: 32951
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Yeah, but if you kill one of those, when the sun comes up it will have bars in front of it. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 395
Location: NW WI | Pointerpride102 - 10/4/2013 6:59 PM
It's a fish. The sun will rise in the morning, even if a musky dies.
X2 |
|
| |
|
Posts: 594
Location: deephaven mn | alot of us have killed a muskie . most of us try very hard to release ASAP
and do a good job at it. I have killed one for sure and maybe more have died later.
so I support and contribute to organizations that continue to stock muskies to replace the ones that get killed, just makes sense to me |
|
| |
|
Posts: 175
Location: Tonka, MN | I get it but just quit fishing if your are worried about harming the fish. It will happen regardless of how careful we are. Ben is spot on with the hookless sucker fishing....way too much damage internal will occur. Its a sport, we do it for the thrill...
x2. Next topic.
Edited by TC24 10/4/2013 11:26 PM
|
|
| |
|
| Hunter 4: I don't take pictures of the fish I catch, particularly muskies! Project much? The whole point of this is simply to address what I will refer to 'overkill'. And by that I mean, the overkill of too many freakin hooks on lures and the damage that can be caused to the fish as a result. It's about respecting the animal while pursuing this top of line predator. Catching for me is important but it isn't the most important reason I choose to fish for muskie. It's the thrill, the anticipation, the challenge, the excitement that can leave me shaking. I recently lost the biggest fish of my life and will say, yes I was peeed but just grateful to have had the opportunity to get this fish to bite and have it on the line, but the fish won. Bucktail with a single treble hook. Would I have managed to land that fish with more hooks, possibly.
It just seems to me that many anglers are so obsessed with numbers that they lose sight of what is called 'fair-chase'. Technology advances and angler skills have pushed that analogy far, far into the anglers favor. I use both in pursuit of these fish but am not so obsessed that I lose sight of respecting the resource. And we all know we win some, we lose some and that to me is fair. Hey, it's your choice how you want to pursue your passion, what I'm sayin is, are we taking all this too far and aren't we losing something in the process? |
|
| |
|
Location: Latitude 41.3016 Longitude 88.6160 | D Bahlmann - 10/5/2013 6:50 AM
Hunter 4: I don't take pictures of the fish I catch, particularly muskies! Project much? The whole point of this is simply to address what I will refer to 'overkill'. And by that I mean, the overkill of too many freakin hooks on lures and the damage that can be caused to the fish as a result. It's about respecting the animal while pursuing this top of line predator. Catching for me is important but it isn't the most important reason I choose to fish for muskie. It's the thrill, the anticipation, the challenge, the excitement that can leave me shaking. I recently lost the biggest fish of my life and will say, yes I was peeed but just grateful to have had the opportunity to get this fish to bite and have it on the line, but the fish won. Bucktail with a single treble hook. Would I have managed to land that fish with more hooks, possibly.
It just seems to me that many anglers are so obsessed with numbers that they lose sight of what is called 'fair-chase'. Technology advances and angler skills have pushed that analogy far, far into the anglers favor. I use both in pursuit of these fish but am not so obsessed that I lose sight of respecting the resource. And we all know we win some, we lose some and that to me is fair. Hey, it's your choice how you want to pursue your passion, what I'm sayin is, are we taking all this too far and aren't we losing something in the process?
I like this post !!! |
|
| |
|
Posts: 696
Location: Northern Illinois | Some of us don't get as much time on the water as others. By taking off an extra hook here and there we could be taking the chance of losing the only fish we get a chance to catch during a year. Others do this as a job and need the clients to be happy so they in turn tell people about the guide they hired. If a guide keeps losing fish based on hook they could have had on the lure then why would they take that chance that would most likely lose customers. Clearly, the sport is in a great place with all the reports of monster fish being caught and registered for the record books. Until you stop seeing those registered for awhile I think the sport is fine. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 32951
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | D Bahlmann - 10/5/2013 6:50 AM
Hunter 4: I don't take pictures of the fish I catch, particularly muskies! Project much? The whole point of this is simply to address what I will refer to 'overkill'. And by that I mean, the overkill of too many freakin hooks on lures and the damage that can be caused to the fish as a result. It's about respecting the animal while pursuing this top of line predator. Catching for me is important but it isn't the most important reason I choose to fish for muskie. It's the thrill, the anticipation, the challenge, the excitement that can leave me shaking. I recently lost the biggest fish of my life and will say, yes I was peeed but just grateful to have had the opportunity to get this fish to bite and have it on the line, but the fish won. Bucktail with a single treble hook. Would I have managed to land that fish with more hooks, possibly.
It just seems to me that many anglers are so obsessed with numbers that they lose sight of what is called 'fair-chase'. Technology advances and angler skills have pushed that analogy far, far into the anglers favor. I use both in pursuit of these fish but am not so obsessed that I lose sight of respecting the resource. And we all know we win some, we lose some and that to me is fair. Hey, it's your choice how you want to pursue your passion, what I'm sayin is, are we taking all this too far and aren't we losing something in the process?
'Project much?'
Wow.
Criticism of the general fishing community for a personally interpreted 'obsession' based upon an idea that 'too many hooks' are on any particular lure or the rest of us are not as caring is a real stretch...that's projecting.
I already covered the 'too many hooks' thing. Are 2 hooks on a 5" crankbait worse or better than 3 on a 12" crankbait? Isn't a single hook easier to get back into the gills? Shouldn't, by the line of thinking presented, all small muskie lures be banned, as they are too easy to get back into the gills?
Remove the lure from the fish quickly, have the tools on board and at hand to do so, get the fish back on it's way and enjoy the catch however it hits you. It's fair chase all the way.
Someone elses motivation for and satisfaction from fishing muskies may not be even close to mine, and I don't believe anyone needs to either justify or explain it to me or anyone else on demand.
'I use both in pursuit of these fish but am not so obsessed that I lose sight of respecting the resource' That's cool, good for you. But, you stated this as if the rest of us are clueless or somehow raping the resource. By the way, Muskie fisheries management and CRR have advanced along with angler skills and technology to the point where muskie angling and trophy muskie opportunities have never been better. Never.
If one wants to use one hook, no sonar, no trolling motor, and a row boat to fish muskies, never take a picture, never hold a muskie and that makes one feel more altruistic, that's great. I know a couple folks who fish that way because they truly enjoy being totally unplugged. That's really nice, but that's not me.
I'll use my side imaging, down imaging, trolling motor, NACL reels, superlines, high modulous graphite rods, conservation series net, video cameras and still cameras to record the trip, and have a blast fishing Muskies in the process. That's what I enjoy, and that's how we roll. I'll use single hook spinnerbaits, crankbaits with 2 trebles, a Creature with one hook, a Wabull with three, and I'll wager I don't kill any more muskies in the process than the rest of the serious muskie angling community.
If I do harm a muskie with the lure, it's more likely to be on a Creature with a 5/0 single hook back in the gill than the Wabull.
We have the correct release tools on board stored on my Just Encase pedestal box, we get the fish back on it's way rapidly, and kill darned few muskies along the way. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 182
| D Bahlmann - 10/4/2013 12:17 PM
Happy now?
No. |
|
| |
|
| Well stated Steve Worrall, but I don't think I was condemning the general fishing community, don't think I referred to 'all' or 'the rest of us', was just stating an opinion based on observation. Like stated in the opening sentence of my post, I am offering this up for 'discussion and consideration', that's all. And based upon responses, it seems that I may have struck a chord. There's nothing wrong with having a debate, a discussion, things to consider. It's only human and healthy, IMO.
But then on the otherhand(and you knew this was acomin), some anglers obsessions can lead them to actions that may have unintended consequence. I don't think anyone who is passionate about fishing muskie sets out to deliberately kill fish, but it is a consequence of the activity, some will die as a result, and I'm not sayin anyone should stop fishing muskie because of this. You make very good sense and strong points but then again, you have a vested interest, dont you? And with all the technical gadgetry some implement into their fishing stratagem, are we not at risk of turning the art of fishing into simply another freakin video game? |
|
| |
|
Posts: 32951
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | D Bahlmann - 10/5/2013 10:14 AM
Well stated Steve Worrall, but I don't think I was condemning the general fishing community, don't think I referred to 'all' or 'the rest of us', was just stating an opinion based on observation. Like stated in the opening sentence of my post, I am offering this up for 'discussion and consideration', that's all. And based upon responses, it seems that I may have struck a chord. There's nothing wrong with having a debate, a discussion, things to consider. It's only human and healthy, IMO.
But then on the otherhand(and you knew this was acomin), some anglers obsessions can lead them to actions that may have unintended consequence. I don't think anyone who is passionate about fishing muskie sets out to deliberately kill fish, but it is a consequence of the activity, some will die as a result, and I'm not sayin anyone should stop fishing muskie because of this. You make very good sense and strong points but then again, you have a vested interest, dont you? And with all the technical gadgetry some implement into their fishing stratagem, are we not at risk of turning the art of fishing into simply another freakin video game?
Said the guy complaining about technology on his computer.
Vested interest? My love for the sport, maybe. I don't need to throw a single cast for muskies otherwise.
Fishing to me is a pass time, not an 'art', fishing is an enjoyable way to spend my free time, and part of my vocation at the same time... an interesting dichotomy.
Video game? Nope, never played one, actually, and I'm pretty sure the two are not even remotely comparable. Understanding the structural elements of the waters I fish and learning the water better? Sure. Don't if you don't want to, up to you. But I'd ask you to stay out of my face if it's my choice to use a 'Bird 998cSI, and an Aqua-Vu Micro+DVR and yours not to.
As far as I am aware, my 998cSI hasn't killed a single fish of any kind. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 791
Location: WI | Like Steve said. You do it your way. We will do it our way. And I also think it's hillarious that you are complaining about technology from our computer.
Edited by Trophyseeker50 10/5/2013 10:27 AM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 1285
Location: Walker, MN | Good discussion here. We have obviously come a long way from the days of pistols and stringer shots and these types of discussions can only help in protecting the future of our Muskie fisheries. I don't condemn any legal methods of fishing for Muskies but that doesn't mean we shouldn't have an honest debate about some of these things. I'm curious where this discussion will go next.
I will say that I agree with some that using larger lures does seem to cut down on the amount of deeply hooked fish. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1767
Location: Lake Country, Wisconsin | D Bahlmann - 10/5/2013 6:50 AM
. I recently lost the biggest fish of my life and will say, yes I was peeed but just grateful to have had the opportunity to get this fish to bite and have it on the line, but the fish won. Bucktail with a single treble hook. Would I have managed to land that fish with more hooks, possibly.
It just seems to me that many anglers are so obsessed with numbers that they lose sight of what is called 'fair-chase'. Technology advances and angler skills have pushed that analogy far, far into the anglers favor. I use both in pursuit of these fish but am not so obsessed that I lose sight of respecting the resource. And we all know we win some, we lose some and that to me is fair. Hey, it's your choice how you want to pursue your passion, what I'm sayin is, are we taking all this too far and aren't we losing something in the process?
I recently modified a Shumway Flasher. Added a second treble in the middle of the bait because I was losing fish on short strikes. Shortly after making the modification I got a jaw dropping strike that resulted in a 48" fish crushing the bait. It hit the net and had one hook in it's mouth...and it wasn't the original one. about 20 seconds later I had a great photo and the fish swam away like it never happened. If you are purposely throwing baits with a lower hooking percentage then I think it is time you take up another hobby because this one here aint for you.... |
|
| |
|
Posts: 140
Location: Northern Illinois | " obsessed w/numbers?" You must be joking. Just returned from my 4th
trip out w/out even a whiff from a musky. I still enjoy the chase. As far as too many
hooks....We have missed probably 50% of the fish that have attacked our baits this
season and some how come unbuckled. Last but not least, I would say all of the fish
we have released went back in looking very healthy and we use lures that are fully
loaded w/trebles. It's a challenging sport & I agree w/ worrall, to each his own.
fish on boys. |
|
| |
|
| Complaining about technology and fair Chase is kind of a joke. Same thing happens with hunting with people saying its not fair Chase. Then when you ask if there using flint lock rifles and home made black powder they change there tune pretty quick. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 182
| D Bahlmann you make some excellent points for discussion. Do you fish for muskies? Do you fish?
Too many hooks? On many lures, yes. How many of us have been snagged just changing lures or sharpening hooks? Seems like I buy more hooks than lures as I am always changing to singles as long as it doesn't effect the action in a negative way. Might be part of the reason a fly rod has been seeing more and more use from me.
Damaged fish? Last fall we caught a muskie that was working baitfish up against a rocky shoreline. This muskie came out of the water and landed on the rocks then rolled back into the water. It's head and mouth were heavily scuffed off from from its dining activity. Not from hook damage. Although severe hook damage does happen from the "uneducated" of our group, most of us work on keeping any damage to a minimum.
"Technical gadgetry" Funny thing, so often you hear the regrets of some they wish things could be simple like in the good old days. Humans are the speices that is evolving the fastest. Maybe we will evolve so fast that we become the speices that becomes extinct. We are the ones that have a brain that isn't totally driven by instinct. At some point in the not too distant past some geek said "hey I got an idea. what if we could connect computers all over the world and put a computer in every home. Just don't tell Al!"
"Vested interest" I forgot. You are a bad person for making a living. Love the way the word rolls off my tongue. Capitalism.
Everybody have an enjoyable day. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 791
Location: WI | Like I said earlier. We do more to conserve our resource that pretty much any other game animal on the planet. Here are a few pictures from a book published in 1988. Not that long ago and a time where almost all Muskies of any size were kept. Nearly every picture of people with fish are taken from shore. And an article about a new concept. Releasing Muskies. Properly release the fish you catch and inform others about catch and release and replica mounts.
Attachments
----------------
 image.jpg (151KB - 181 downloads)
image.jpg (120KB - 176 downloads)
image.jpg (138KB - 165 downloads)
|
|
| |
|
| For me, it depends on how the fish are biting. If they are swallowing bucktails, I sometimes take off 1 treble. The remaining treble the barbs are pinched. This happens every year to the point I consider quitting for awhile, but I found this 1 treble set-up works good. I like using pinched barbs in general. If they are nipping the baits and hitting real weak, I leave all hooks on. As for pictures, I don't take many fish pictures anymore. If I get a real monster I will probably take a picture as long as I feel the fish is in good enough health to do so. There are a few times I feel not taking the fish out of the water is the difference between a fish living or dieing IMO. With all that said, to each their own.
Edited by Baby Mallard 10/5/2013 11:51 AM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 720
| "Project Much"
I'm assuming by starting this thread that you were not using this site as your personal blog. Rather that you wanted some discussion regarding your thoughts. If you can recall I said that your thoughts were not that far off. I thought you were being a bit hypocritical in the sense that 1 hook or 3 hooks. You're still making that fish fight for its very life.
Now you've changed from the numbers of hooks to new technology. What does it take to catch these fish. A rod, a reel and bait. Combine that with some time on a quality piece of water. That is the most simplest form of musky fishing. No computers, maps, depth finder, net (hand landing fish like the old days ) and certainly no bow mounted trolling motor. All of these things I'm almost certain you've used and/or own. I'm sorry that I don't see the line where technological advancements in the sport starts and stops. If you own any one of the items listed above, well than. That is being a hypocrite.
I never have and never will begrudge someone's methods of catching and releasing a musky. But will more than happy to defend mine. It never ceases to amaze me that some people can't enjoy something for what it means to them and not what it means to someone else. Fish musky how you want.
Edited by Hunter4 10/5/2013 11:46 AM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 8856
| I prefer to go out and throw lures and catch as few muskies as possible when I fish. Saves me the trouble of netting them, unhooking them, releasing them, etc. I pull my lures away from fish on purpose, because it's the right thing to do!! 
I have been considering going barbless, both for ease of unhooking the fish and for my own safety. I've had a few close calls that ended up with a hook scraped across a knuckle. 1/4" either way and I'd have been going to the hospital. I just don't want to find myself in a situation where I've lost a giant fish because I filed the barbs off my hooks.
As everyone else has pretty much said, the best you can do is having good release tools within reach, big nets, not holding the fish out of the water too long, not dragging it back and forth through the water, and calling it quits during unusually warm water temperatures. I've started fishing with my knipex in my back pocket. I have no problem leaving a badly hooked fish in the net, cutting the hooks out of it, and letting it swim away without taking a picture. I don't need another picture of a 38" musky bad enough to kill one, and I can change out my hooks.
But I draw the line at anything that is going to compromise the hooking percentages or the action of my lures. I'll take a hook off here and there, on lures where that hook always seems to wind up outside the fish's mouth. But I will fish with suckers as long as there are suckers to fish with, with no regrets about doing so.
Nobody WANTS to kill a fish. I hate it when ANY fish is badly hooked, even the ones I intend to eat. I don't particularly enjoy killing crappies or walleyes or perch. But I like to eat them. And if you're willing to eat it, you #*^@ well ought to be willing to kill it in my opinion.
But that's just me. I sure wouldn't tell anybody else that their way of doing things is wrong. As long as they are fishing within the law, and not wasting what they catch, that's fine by me.
|
|
| |
|
| Not to be obnoxious, but I follow Mr. S's line of thinking. The whole purpose of musky fishing is to catch them. Even catch and release--much as it is favored--is above and beyond the call. Carrying the argument to the extreme, why not have a lake where all musky fishing is prohibited. You just ride around in boats and hope to see one. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 791
Location: WI | Lol. Exactly. If you just want to go look at them go to Jim Pecks wildwood near woodruff I believe they still have the musky pond. Go look and don't take pictures. I will be the guy in the boat with all his stuff looking for his next PB. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 182
| Do you know what the best thing is about beating your head on the wall is?
Stopping.
|
|
| |
