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| I lot of you guys are unfamiliar with the Buffalo harbor and upper Niagara River. Discussion of our season really doesn't belong on a national site and I'm not sure why Larry started this discussion in this forum.
The bottom line is this: From ten to fifteen years ago the Buffalo Harbor was relentlessly targeted during the last two weeks of November. There were a lot of boats catching a lot of big fish in a very small area. Anyone honestly concerned about the welfare of this musky fishery would have been disheartened by what was happening. We didn't want this onslaught to continue for two more weeks into December. That is why we opposed an extension of the Musky season then, and why we (most of us who were around then) oppose it now. This is not the St. Lawrence and we have never commented on anything going on in the St. Lawrence or anywhere else. We didn't even oppose the extension of the Ontario season in the upper Niagara. So please limit your comments to the waters you know.
Thank you.
Tony |
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Location: Green Bay, WI | Well, but they can still account for CPUE (catch per unit effort) with fewer boats. Any information helps. |
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Location: On the Niagara River in Buffalo, NY | Tony, The NSDEC is looking for a Uniform Great Lakes Muskie Season either Nov 30th or Dec 15th for all NY Waters.I do not believe the NMA. is the
only club that has members that fish for Muskies on Great Lakes Waters, all have the right to be informed of what is going on, everyone who buys a NY fishing license, out of state fishermen as well. The end result can effect the closing date for the Whole Great Lakes Waters of NY.Again you need to prove the 15 days of December will stress the fishery by being open, you can't because you know that colder water iis the less stressful time for releasing Muskies.It went from catching big Muskies in October to November to the last week of November or not at all if we do not get wind induced water temp drop to bring in the forage base(gizzard shad) Now some years the fish show up after the season is closed Nov 30th.Even if the 15 days of December were available to fish, the water could still be to warm, high winds & waves, brown water or snowed in launches.We do not have many boats f fishing in November, were not going to have them in December in the river or the lake.54" sizelimit just about stops any fish from being removed legaly and s anyone fishing that late in the season I'd going to be s diehardt muskie fishermen that knows good catch & release tatics.Big Muskies of giant size are almost always caught in the coldest water period of any open season, everyone should have that chance. |
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| Larry:
Sometimes we need to keep you honest. You should know that the reason we started the pike tournaments was due to a NYPA study showing that the pike population in the upper river was growing and having a negative effect on the survival of musky YOY. We actually hoped to get rid of some of those pike. We failed miserably, as few pike were caught. We also had very strict rules to ensure that no one was trying to catch muskies. And no fishing was allowed in the harbor. At any rate, I don't think any muskies were hooked either.
The pike tourneys weren't popular and we aren't having them anymore.
Tony |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | i wish Illinois bordered New York ... :/ |
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| Larry:
We do not want the rest of the Great Lakes to be forced to close their season earlier because of us. But I don't think that is what's going on. I believe we can keep the status quo. So the only issue is whether or not we should extend our season. I do believe that what happened 10 to 15 years ago did damage the harbor fishery (think of all the big spawners we lost). I never want to see it happen again (I guess that's the agenda LR was referring to). I do believe the ADS catch rates are accurate, otherwise it would be a lot easier to catch fish in the Harbor. I don't totally discount the effect of warmer waters, but I think the data I published in our newsletter is accurate (and verifiable) and the effect is minimal.
If the DEC was forcing an all or nothing, I would relent (not happily). But I don't believe they are. I still think we have the option. But it's not my call, anyway. Just my opinion.
Tony |
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| If I remember correctly there was one poor undersized tiger musky that hit the fryer as a result of that pike tournament. Case of misidentification from a spoonfed nma member. It's pretty easy to catch pike all march long in the river, right from shore even. Having a tournament after they spawn to cut their numbers wasn't the brightest of ideas was it. That tournament was ill advised from the start and I cannot believe it went on as long as it did. If that's your goal, to reduce pike numbers you should be out there this month filling your limit daily before they begin to spawn. I still feel that all Niagara musky anglers should be 100% dead against any angling near musky spawning grounds May 1st through June 15. NYS should establish fish sanctuaries for those areas during that time period. There are bigger and more important battles that can be fought and won in the fight to keep this fishery flourishing. |
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Location: On the Niagara River in Buffalo, NY | Tony:{We do not want the rest of the Great Lakes to be forced to close their season earlier because of us. But I don't think that is what's going on. I believe we can keep the status quo. So the only issue is whether or not we should extend our season}
Larry: You stated at a NMA Board Meeting that Steve Lapan emailed you that he was for Nov 30th for the St. Lawrence River,now your saying the possible change is only the Upper Niagara River & Lake Erie.When the NSDEC asked the NY M.I. Chapter 69 for imput on Inland Muskie Season Changes and NY Great Lakes Muskie Season Changes we were told that the NSDEC wanted Uniform Opening & Closing Dates for All Great Lakes Waters.So it will be Nov 30th or Dec 15th for All!
Everyone here on MuskieFirst I'm very sorry to have this thread dragging on going in circles,but the Issue is very important to all the muskie fishermen that fish the NY Great Lakes Waters,it should be answered on March 5th and then we can stop posting on here.
Edited by LarryJones 3/1/2013 5:36 PM
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| 2112. That is exactly it. Its nice that the NMA likes to help the rest of the world out by posting every detail of the 30 inchers they land. I believe they are a good organization,but they are dilusional about some things. You would think Buff harbor being destroyed in front of their eyes would make them think twice about every detail postedon the net. Oh, and they are very anti flourocarbon.. Lol |
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| Niaontario:
I'm unaware of any tiger caught and killed. I doubt that happened. At any rate, I agree that it was a stupid idea (and it was my idea). At times I've done stupid things. Perhaps reacting to whats being said on this site is one of them?
And I agree with you on fishing near spawning grounds. Other than the above bout of stupidity, I am 100% against it (although the pike tournaments were held the first Saturday in May - well before the muskies spawn around here). Unfortunately, we're outnumbered by bass fishermen like a zillion to one. And they like the docks along the shoreline where a lot of small muskies are caught.
We've often talked about having fish sancturies during spawning season. It's something we wish we could have that Ontario has. Again, there's a lot of social-economic issues, but it's something we should take a closer look at with the DEC.
Tony |
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| Larry:
I never received an e-mail from anyone regarding this subject from the DEC, and never said that I did at our board meeting (ask the other 8 board members who were at the meeting) or anywhere else. I believe an e-mail was received by another board member from the Region 9 DEC head indicating that they were considering closing on the 30th. But I don't believe it's all or nothing.
Tony |
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| Guest:
Last year was the first year we had a working website, so it's the only year you would have heard anything about our catches emanating from the NMA on the internet. We have no control what other people post on other sites. Our forum is now only open to members, so you won't be hearing anything more from us, unless you're a member.
I've said enough on this site regarding this discussion thread. So I'm out of here! (hooray, you say?).
Good fishing to all.
Tony |
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Location: On the Niagara River in Buffalo, NY | Well Tony we will find out March 5th how this all plays out,if we do not get Dec 15th for All NY Great Lakes Waters settled with the NSDEC present at the meeting,we can still win at the NYSDEC Public Review Period where every fishermen can voice their opinion.One thing to remember the NMA is only one club,there are 55 more fishing & hunting clubs in Erie county alone to vote and many more county federation's of sportsman's club's in NY state to vote,I will petition them all to vote!Then if the majority of the clubs in NY state want Dec 15th Closing date,I will have a resolution sent to the NY Conservation Council to be sent to the NYSDEC to pass Dec 15th! |
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Location: Eastern Ontario | "we will find out at the March 5th NMA Meeting when the NYSDEC will be present talking about the issue.They are saying the 15 days of December will over stress the fish,but who is kidding who the 15 days of everyone fishing in one spot in Canadian waters is over stressing those fish,the fishing could be spread out through out the river stressing all the fish less." Lary Jones
So what happened |
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Location: On the Niagara River in Buffalo, NY | At the NSDEC / NMA Meeting last night all presentations done by Mike Wilkinson(Niagara River)& Steve Lapan (St. Lawrence River) were talks telling us that both fisheries have lose of habitat and declining YOY Muskies and overall numbers of fish are down.It seems at one point there was a push to roll back the St.Lawrence River to Nov 30th,but after hearing Steve Lapan he said that may be hard to do.We talked about extended seasons of the Upper Niagara River & Lake Erie,it was said any request would have to show why and what are the benifits on an extended season and that they would alawys side with the fish if anything looked detramental to the survival of the fish.We are waiting for a copy of the NSDEC's Power Point Program that if put up would better explain there position.There was a little talk on muskies that may get cut and how would those cuts heal in colder water,there were thaughts that the cuts may take longer to heal in colder water,but there was no real proof that they would not heal properly,no study to this point,so they just did not know.It was brought up that muskies that are cut in warm water periods were more likely to get an infection and the stress level would be higher with more delayed mortality then in cooler waters,more so due to less oxygen in warm water and more oxygen in colder water.They touched on possibly going to Artificial Baits Only for Muskie fishing in the Upper Niagara River & Lake Erie.The NMA will have a mailed Ballot Vote on Muskie Season Starting Dates & Closing Dates,the Harbor & River will be seperate votes,details of how the Ballots will be composed will come out once they are written by the NMA Board and ready to be mailed to active members.Mike Clancy briefly talked about the Inland Muskie Season Changes for 2014,Opener of Memorial Day Weekend and closing on Nov 30th,with a 40" sizelimit state wide on all waters not already having a larger sizelimit.All Great Lakes Waters in NY State will have a 54" Sizelimit.I will post more on last nights meeting once I get all the correct facts from the meetings minutes
Edited by LarryJones 3/7/2013 10:03 PM
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Location: On the Niagara River in Buffalo, NY | • Tuesday, March 12, 2013: 7:00 p.m. – 9:30 p.m. at the Carlson Auditorium, in the Chester F. Carlson Center for Imaging Science building (76-1125) on the Rochester Institute of Technology (RIT) campus, Rochester, Monroe County. The meeting is co-hosted by RIT and the Monroe County Fishery Advisory Board
Tonight's State of Lake Ontario Meeting Steve Lapan will bring up the NY Great Lakes Muskie Season Changes,if you missed the NMA Meeting March 5th here is your chance to voice your opinion on a possible extension of the muskie season on the Upper Niagara River & Lake Erie to Dec 15th.
After the NMA Meeting there were a number of fishermen that were for a July 1st Opener and Dec 15th Closing Date,taking the extra stress off post spawn muskies for 2 weeks durring the present 3rd Saturday in June start.I hope to see a few muskie fishermen there tonight,I know that the NY M.I. Chapter 69 will have many members present |
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