|
|
Posts: 225
Location: Nordeast Minneapolis | I don't know that it changes the conversation necessarily, but I should point out for those not familiar with the Minneapolis metro lakes... no one actually 'lives' on Harriet or Calhoun. It's not the same as a lake like White Bear or Minnetonka, in the sense that even if you have a view of the lake, you don't have access. You can't have a dock out. You can't have your boat tied up (unless it's a sailboat). The entire lakeshore is park land. So I wouldn't compare this to something like homeowner's associations of Minnetonka trying to essentially privatize the landings.
And as to the argument of keeping those inexperienced with handling muskies off the lake, I would bet the vast majority of fish caught on either lake come from people fishing from shore, or the casting docks scattered around. In my experience, a large number of people fishing there are fishing musky, are doing so with limited equipment and experience, and are using sucker minnows with single hooks rather than a quickset rig. It's not uncommon to see a floater in the weeds by the casting docks... not sure if that's related to tools, hooks, experience or just bad luck, but it happens.
As to whether or not this would keep invasives out longer, I don't know. I don't want zebra mussels in the lakes any more than anyone else does, but this seems wrong. And I would be more concerned about the canoe person unknowingly pulling zebra mussels in from 'Tonka than I would the guy using the boat launch. Plus, this seems like a lot to spend on a couple lakes that get very little boat traffic; on any given day, there can't be more than a dozen boats launched on Calhoun or Harriet, since you can only use electric motors.
|
|
| |
|
| This is the tip of the iceberg, take a look around at the homes on these lakes you fish at. Do you think you have a prayer of keeping access if these folks want to lobby the state and federal governments to change a sentence in the law or maybe a word or 2 and you'll be fishing if and when they want you too. Some of these people are concerned for their lakes health for sure but many want to keep you out or limit your access to when they will allow you to fish. They have found a great tool, invasive species.
We need fisherman in the legislature, not pseudo anglers or hunters that sometimes fish we need fisherman. Its time to buck up and support some friends of fish and Muskies, these guys need funds so send what you can. $50.00 is the magic number but anything will help them. http://www.peterperovich.org/ http://perovichforsenate.org/
Edited by Muskiefool 6/23/2012 5:14 PM
|
|
| |
|
| I forgot to address the Republican Democrat issue, it doesn't matter!!!!!! we have few if any anglers. These guys donate time money and a huge amount of their lives for BASS and helping Minnesota Anglers. Its time to step up fisherman.
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 719
| Re: Minnehaha creek, There is significant flow when the dam opens so I'm sure Zebes will/have spread into the creek.
I'll confess ignorance in knowing where it goes re: city lakes etc. |
|
| |
|
| Bturg,
Thanks for replying. I just think if their main objective is keeping invasives out they should be spending money elsewhere. JMO. I'll be crafting a letter to the park board committee. This definitely smells like Shorewood and there are quite a few metro lake associations that have failed in their attempts to do this in the past ten years.
Ryan Connelly |
|
| |
|
| The President of the Park board ommision is John Erwin. [email protected]. His number is 612 230-6443 x 7 and it rolls right to his cell phone. I spoke with him about this and told him what a half baked policy this is. We need to unify and make our voices heard. This will do absolutely NOTHING to prevent invasve species and is a waste of our taxpayor money. In saddition, it is denying our rights to public water. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 578
Location: WI | "We're in a unique position that we might be able to protect our lakes longer."
This was the most telling quote from that article. Acknowledges that they are attempting to merely delay the inevitable and all it will cost is taxpayer's money and access to a public resource. Certainly seems like a dangerous step. What happens when these lakes get zebra mussels? Will the gates come down? Doubtful. Will lake associations looking to do the same on "their" lake acknowledge it is not a solution? Even more doubtful. As someone who started out muskie fishing using a small raft out on Cedar when I lived in SLP, I will certainly be contacting Mr. Erwin. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 47
| Just sleep in your boat. Those lakes turn on at night. |
|
| |
|
| The full parkboard meets every other Wednesday.These meetings are open to the public . My good friend was the past commissioner of the parkboard. She told me that being in person at these meetings holds MAJOR weight. She also said to make sure that emails and phone were kept to the facts.
The current president is a scientist at the U. He can be swayed with logic.
I will be trying hard to be at the meeting this Wednesday.
Joe |
|
| |
|
Posts: 47
| Was wondering where are the meetings are located and what time. Here is our greatest opportunity to have our voices heard. Let's overwhelm them at the public meetings. Complaining on the forum board will no longer solve the issue of limiting access. How about the morning the shut down times start we overwhelm them with boats at the launch and protest on the water. Everyone fish within the sailboats. Power by numbers.
By the way I did see a guy sleeping on Harriet a couple years ago next to Nessy in the milfoil. Canoe was tied up to a wood man made raft. As I was casting bucktails at the raft I saw a gentleman stir in a sleeping bag. He also had a cooler and grill on the raft. So if you get trapped on the lake and forgot the bolt cutters, hunker down in the milfoil. The park and rec won't do anything. |
|
| |
|
| Here is what I sent and the response I got. Do they think an unlocked chain is going to stop people from entering without an inspector present?
Do they really not know what the ploicy will be after Sept. 30th?
Mr. Sdano:
Thank you for your comments. I have forwarded them to the Superintendent and the Board of Commissioners.
While I an unable answer all of your questions, I can tell you that boats may leave the lakes at any time without penalty. The public launches will be marked as closed for launching boats with a chain that departing boaters can remove and replace. Other information may be found on the AIS Frequently Asked Questions Sheet on the Park Board’s website.
Respectfully,
-Robin Smothers
Robin Smothers
Minneapolis Park & Recreation Board
612-230-6410
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 8:57 AM
To: Smothers, Robin
Subject: LIMITING LAKE ACCESS
Hello Robin,
I am sorry to that you have been put in a position by the City Council to have to respond to/defend their emergency action to restrict lake access. I was hoping that you could explain what mechanism will be put in place to allow boaters to leave lakes between the hours of 10:00 am - 5:00 pm on Monday through Thursday and after the hour of 9:00 pm on every day of the week. Surely the city council in its' infinite wisdom considered the legality of the restricted access and the potential problem of, for lack of a better term, holding people hostage on the lakes until 5:00 pm or overnight until 6:00 am the following morning. I am also curious as to the exact ownership status of these public landings. It is my understanding that if any state or federal dollars are used to maintain and or develop these landings that the city has no legal grounds to restrict access.
I eagerly await your response to these important questions.
Thank You
David J. Sdano
|
|
| |
|
| Question for Uptown??
Is the Park Board bound to enforce the nonsensical resolution passed by the City Council? Are they seperate entities? Shouldn't we be going to the city council meeteings or is it to late for that?
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 79
| This is absolutely ridiculous, and everyone knows it. The problem is not enough people will get involved to stop this and the rights we all lose one year at a time. We, as citizens have become content, and our priorities are all mixed up, but we have no problem voicing our opinions through social media or with buddies. I am as guilty as alot of other people, but I know I need to change my behavior before I look for others to do so. I will contact the city of Minneapolis and let them know how I feel.
"Sometimes losing is winning"
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 719
| Yep, step in and make some polite noise. Write an email, make a call, be heard. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 121
Location: Forest Lake, MN & Bemidji, MN | I have sent my email and made a phone call specifically mentioning the denial of access to the primary users without consultation with the DNR, who has used public money to stock all these lakes specifically for sport fishing as well as research for quite sometime. While I do believe the MPRB effort is entirely misguided and contains massive oversights as canoes and kayaks retain unrestricted access and can just as easily transport invasives, I am not ultimately too worried about this stopping me from fishing when I want to. The access restrictions are not a MN state law and will not be enforced by the DNR. The fines posted on the press announcement by the MPRB are the DNR fines for transport of AIS and are in place regardless of the access changes. They are not the fines you would be subject to for launching your boat during closed launch hours. Assuming of course you are not doing so while transporting AIS. If the MPRB cannot afford to have their trained inspectors at the lakes full time during the parks hours of operation how are they going to afford to enforce the access restrictions? The chain across the access is going to be a chain on a hook. When I want to fish I will be dropping it like I own the place, plain and simple.
This is from the MPRB FAQ document regarding this matter.
"What happens if boaters use the boat launch when no inspectors are on duty?
Boaters who launch boats and watercraft into the lakes when no inspectors are on duty may be subject to a citation from the Minneapolis Park Police. Additionally, Park Police officers are authorized to write the same criminal and civil citations and warnings for aquatic invasive species violations as DNR conservation officers. Boaters may remove their boats and watercraft at any time."
Essentially you will be breaking a park rule, not a state law. So if a park cop happens to be waiting at the access while you are trying to launch outside of allowed hours they "may" give you a ticket. Or if you ask them politley, they may help you check your boat for AIS before you launch, who knows. If they are not waiting there for you, who is going to give you a ticket? A trail cam? The head of the Yacht Club? The guys renting canoes? Good luck with that MPRB. I have a very hard time believing it is realistic MPRB would even be able to enforce this rule without any opposition. With significant written and verbal opposition I doubt they will continue to try. Tell them we support any attempts to stop the spread of AIS when done logically and this is simply not a good plan for a variety of reasons. |
|
| |
|
| Thanks for the info jfreborg.
I hadn't realized they were disquising the fines as to appear seperate from the MN DNR AIS fines. Very sneaky. I can't wait for my first conversation with Minneapolis' finest when I too drop the access chain like I own it and launch my rig right into the milfoil invested waters of the chain of lakes. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 3157
| the next MPL's city council meeting is JulY 11th and is open to the public a number of muskie guuys are showing up and I know there will be a request to get on the agenda that night,, |
|
| |
|
| Showing up in meetings and engaging in discussion is a smart manner to go. If you start breaking the rules and ignoring city regulations, you could see more enforcement and more strict regulation. It also makes muskie fishermen in general look bad if the rules are ignored. BR |
|
| |
|
Posts: 24
Location: Mpls., MN. | As a fisherman that fishes these city lakes 5+ times a week is sad to hear this loss of use. Nobody has talked about Oct. and Nov. boat access this worries me and as I was told Sail boats have to be off the lake for the season around Oct. 15th. Cedar Lake has about a dozen homes with lake shore and docks on it. there is a easement in front of there property next to shore thats owned by the city of Mpls. The Queen of England owns one of the homes. Cedar boat access has been closed to public for years. the official hours for boating on the city lakes are 6:00am - 12:00am but no one I know has been given a ticket. I've talked to my fellow city lakes buddies and all are sad to hear that days when you want to get out for a couple hours you might not be able to. This might force one to go to Tonka and pay gas to move the boat instead cheap Elec. power. Larry Peterson |
|
| |
|
Posts: 719
| One angle to potentially discuss or bring up:
Lifeguards vs ramp guards....where should the funding go. There was a drowning recently at an un-staffed beach. One of the reasons quoted was a lack of applicants for the jobs...in the private sector you would likely raise the pay structure to make the position more attractive if there were not enough applications for a key position.
Why spend the money to guard a ramp vs guarding the lives of young swimmers. If the funds are there to staff gates they could be used more wisely perhaps ?
Edited by bturg 6/27/2012 11:09 PM
|
|
| |
|
Location: Minneapolis | Who's enforcing this law (giving tickets) mpls park police or DNR? |
|
| |
|
| bturg - 6/27/2012 11:03 PM
One angle to potentially discuss or bring up:
Lifeguards vs ramp guards....where should the funding go. There was a drowning recently at an un-staffed beach. One of the reasons quoted was a lack of applicants for the jobs...in the private sector you would likely raise the pay structure to make the position more attractive if there were not enough applications for a key position.
Why spend the money to guard a ramp vs guarding the lives of young swimmers. If the funds are there to staff gates they could be used more wisely perhaps ?
Perhaps the added revenue from the tickets will enable them to hire more lifeguards. BR |
|
| |
|
| BenR Did you read jfreborg's post at all?
The words may be subject to a citation are more than just a little important. It doesn't say WILL be given a citation and for what launching a boat. The fines are the same as for transporting AIS meaning that if joe blow at the yacht club sees someone launching a pristine boat and trailer with no visible AIS attached fines won't be imposed. The idea of imposing restrictions on trailered boats and not kayaks, canoes, sail boards and the like is laughable and has zero chance of holding up to and legal challenge. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 321
| guest - 6/28/2012 12:40 PM
BenR Did you read jfreborg's post at all?
The words may be subject to a citation are more than just a little important. It doesn't say WILL be given a citation and for what launching a boat. The fines are the same as for transporting AIS meaning that if joe blow at the yacht club sees someone launching a pristine boat and trailer with no visible AIS attached fines won't be imposed. The idea of imposing restrictions on trailered boats and not kayaks, canoes, sail boards and the like is laughable and has zero chance of holding up to and legal challenge.
I am not sure that is the case at all. I don't think it is laughable at all and on what basis due you claim it will not stand up to a legal challenge? There is no doubt cities are short on revenue and parking tickets are a good source for extra. H
Edited by Homer 6/28/2012 12:56 PM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 121
Location: Forest Lake, MN & Bemidji, MN | Just to be clear, I don't want anyone to go out and break any rules. You're all big boys everyone exercise your judgement. This will clearly be a park rule. It will clearly NOT be a state law. Me previously stating I will fish when I want is because I am ok with breaking a park rule. If you have ever fished any of the lakes that will be affected by the launch closures before 6am or after 10pm at anytime in the past you too have broken a park rule! Park's closed then Jack! This situation is no different, it involves accessing the resource outside of approved hours. That's it, the AIS portion is simply the ideal the park board has tethered their wagons too in an effort to give the rule meaning so it isn't perceived as entirely pointless. That's just politics. The MN DNR will not be enforcing the launch closures, they would however be enforcing any rules pertaining to transportation of AIS, as always. This has nothing to do with the DNR as of now. The Minneapolis parks police may be issuing tickets to those who chose to lauch their boats when the launch is closed. Which translates to: If a park policeman witnesses you launch your boat when the launch is closed and chooses to issue you a ticket then you will get one. If there is no one there to witness you launch your boat it is highly unlikely you will receive a ticket. Everyone is correct that the city as well as the state is short on revenue. What you may not be considering is that it takes money to pay wages to ensure enforcement of the rules and issuance of tickets. Money they likely do not have. If they had the money they would just pay for a full time inspector and TRULY protect the lakes without any closures. Since the parkboard clearly cannot afford to staff the launches with a full time AIS inspector they need to rely on the Minneapolis parks police to sit in wait at the launches in anticipation of the opportunity to write a ticket to someone trying to launch during closed hours. Anyone who thinks the city is going to pay 4 or more uniformed park policemen/women to just sit at these launches during closed hours to ensure the rules are enforced is smoking the good stuff, cause its not gonna happen. It may happen initally, but as time passes and if people don't continually get tickets, then rules are adhered too and minimal or no ticket revenue is generated they will realize it costs more money to keep an idle body at a closed launch than the tickets generate in revenue. Then it will go to a rotation or being unmanned all together. If they continue to pay uniforms to sit on their thumbs at closed launches waiting to write tickets it's all the more reason to be vocal about the waste of your tax dollar!! Moral of the story, if you launch your boat when the launch is closed don't get caught. I wrote an email last week to the parks board and copied the MN DNR fisheries as well and have yet to hear back and I know why. Because the park board can't answer the questions I asked and not sound like a bunch of morons. They set themselves up to fail with this plan as is. I am the son of a 28 year career lawman who finished his long career in law enforcement as a conservation officer in Northern, MN. I have more respect for the law than most. This is not a law, it's a park rule. It's a short sighted, unenforceable rule denying access on a discriminatory basis to resources stocked for sport fishing and research with public money. Step up and take it to em, hold people accountable and make them answer your questions. As far as the rule goes, if you choose to break it you better be financially and mentally prepared to deal with the consequences and do it with class. No disrespect to anyone who adheres to all rules presented to them in life, but think of what your life might be like if everyone chose to adhere to rules drafted by idiots? Sorry for the long winded rant. Said my final bit, I think it's great to read all the different viewpoints about this and know that people care. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 3157
| how many have you guys have actually dealt with MPLs 'PARK' cops,,,Im not talking about regular mpls cops but PARK police,,,,Park police WILL ticket you if they see any chance those people must be in a negative work environment,,,they will smash $800 molded side windows of SUV's if someone leaves a dog in a vehicle,,,I DO understand smashing a window to let the dog out to avoid heat stress or the potential but it dosent make sense to smash a moulded side window and then have the dog crawl through jagged sharp broken glass when it would be easier and safer to break a door window and open the door to let the dog out,,in short they do it because they can,,,,subject to citation??? If they can they will!!!
Edited by happy hooker 6/28/2012 5:11 PM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 719
| There are a lot of good points made here so far, stay on task, get the word out, ask questions and view it as a serious issue. Sarcasm and bickering here has no positive effect. I talked with Jeremy last week and he makes some very valid points above and has made strides to be heard. I know Brad (hooker) will also be a strong logical force to be heard at the meetings.
Even if you don't fish the lakes make an effort to write and be heard...create a little volume as the things accepted and established at this location are likely to filter out to others...squash the bug before it lays eggs. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 548
Location: MN | I just ran across an 'inspector' last weekend taking my boat out of the water. He asked about live wells, pointed out stuff on the trailer. He told me he can only inform me of the laws. This was not in the city though.
Nick |
|
| |
|
Posts: 676
Location: Wisconsin | Well, here it starts for the rest of the state. I am sure those rich people who live on Melissa "really" check their boats over when launching.....
http://www.startribune.com/local/160909885.html |
|
| |
|
Posts: 8840
| Maybe this is a stupid question...
Wouldn't it make much more sense and be much more effective to patrol the lakes where invasives are present and make sure people are cleaning their boats and emptying their livewells as they leave? Instead of worring about invasives finding their way into all the uninfested lakes, why not take steps to make sure they don't leave the infested lakes to begin with?? |
|
| |
