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Muskie Fishing -> Lures,Tackle, and Equipment -> Mono vs Braid for Trolling
 
Message Subject: Mono vs Braid for Trolling
Droid
Posted 2/10/2012 1:58 PM (#537946)
Subject: Mono vs Braid for Trolling


A question for all the professional trollers out there...when do you use mono versus braid for your various trolling applications? Also, what mono test strength and brands work best?

Thanks!
tuffy1
Posted 2/10/2012 2:11 PM (#537948 - in reply to #537946)
Subject: RE: Mono vs Braid for Trolling





Posts: 3240


Location: Racine, Wi
Not that I'm a pro, but I do a fair amount of trolling. Personally, I tend to run mono in a couple of cases. If I'm looking to get a larger distance from the boat and get deeper in the water with smaller baits, I'll run 20# PLine which isn't really mono (it's a floro blend), but as close as I get to it in this case. Orrrrr, if I'm looking to run baits a bit shallower on shorter lines, I'll run heavier mono (say 50# test Big Game).

For most other applications (getting baits down a bit quicker with cranks, running blades with snap weights, spinner baits) I tend to run braid. I would say in most cases I run braid, but there are usually rods with both in my spread when running 6 rods. If I'm only running a couple of rods, they are usually braid as I'm usually running short lines and running tight to, or over structure so I'm being more precise with my presentations.

horsehunter
Posted 2/10/2012 2:15 PM (#537949 - in reply to #537946)
Subject: Re: Mono vs Braid for Trolling




Location: Eastern Ontario
Don't forget the harmonics you can get with wire...very attractive at times

I use both mono and braid prefer mono bouncing bottom or in snag infested waters

Edited by horsehunter 2/10/2012 2:19 PM
ToddM
Posted 2/10/2012 3:32 PM (#537959 - in reply to #537946)
Subject: Re: Mono vs Braid for Trolling





Posts: 20230


Location: oswego, il
I used to run mono exclusively but have switches to braid. Imho you can adjust with the drag and using fiberglass rods helps take up some of the shock using a no stretch line.
RW
Posted 2/10/2012 4:23 PM (#537970 - in reply to #537946)
Subject: RE: Mono vs Braid for Trolling


I run a little bit of each. Mono for the boards, super braids on the flat lines, a short wire 0'-21' and a long wire 30'-50'. Some days none of them get hit, other days they all get hit. The wire transmits so much vibration to the rod you can really feel the headshakes.
Rich Wren
DaveG
Posted 2/10/2012 5:11 PM (#537979 - in reply to #537946)
Subject: Re: Mono vs Braid for Trolling





Posts: 141


I used to use mono but the hook ups were hit and miss because of the stretch, with Braid the hook up ratio improved dramatically.

Edited by DaveG 2/10/2012 5:26 PM
Droid
Posted 2/10/2012 11:29 PM (#538031 - in reply to #537946)
Subject: RE: Mono vs Braid for Trolling


The reason I ask is because some swear that the stretch is a good thing (shock absorber) while others say it is bad so long as your drag is set properly. Unfortunately, I am not able to fish enough to really explore and discover the salient differences. How about all of you Lake St. Claire trollers...what is used most often?
woodieb8
Posted 2/11/2012 5:22 AM (#538040 - in reply to #537946)
Subject: Re: Mono vs Braid for Trolling




Posts: 1530


HIon st clair mono is king. for planer boards clips hold better. its cheaper.
it allows a little strech. it also can keep some baits higher in the water column.

in fall some use braids to achieve depth in rivermouths and casting
berkly big game in green is the best line color here also.. enjoy and sharpen your hooks
hobeybaker
Posted 2/11/2012 7:44 AM (#538048 - in reply to #537946)
Subject: Re: Mono vs Braid for Trolling




Posts: 51


Big Game Mono
Jerry Newman
Posted 2/11/2012 10:30 AM (#538055 - in reply to #537979)
Subject: Re: Mono vs Braid for Trolling




Location: 31

DaveG - 2/10/2012 5:11 PM I used to use mono but the hook ups were hit and miss because of the stretch, with Braid the hook up ratio improved dramatically.

I agree with this 100%! However, I became so frustrated losing fish on super lines after the hook up that I switched over to mono...  I now use 50lb mono for all my shallow water trolling after years of using super lines. 

I must admit that it was less "maintenance" with the super line, cool to feel every head shake, and snapping off weeds was definitely easier, but in my mind there's no question that I now lose less fish with the mono. A bonus is that mono works much better for boards, and is a lot cheaper as already stated.

To combat the hook up problem with mono on boards, (and it can be a problem) when a rod goes off I throttle the motor and turn the boat away from the fish… even at 4 miles an hour.  Although it's hard to get other people to remember it in the heat of the moment when they are running the boat, I can pretty much guarantee you this will increase the percentage in the net.  A bonus here is that the boards on the opposite side slack up so you can clear them a little quicker too.

Hope this doesn't just confuse you more?



Jerry Newman
Posted 2/11/2012 10:48 AM (#538062 - in reply to #537970)
Subject: RE: Mono vs Braid for Trolling




Location: 31

RW - 2/10/2012 4:23 PM I run a little bit of each. Mono for the boards, super braids on the flat lines, a short wire 0'-21' and a long wire 30'-50'. Some days none of them get hit, other days they all get hit. The wire transmits so much vibration to the rod you can really feel the headshakes. Rich Wren

Hey Rich, just noticed you posted... how's it going. I know wire has been a big winner for you over the years, but have you actually witnessed times where it is the only thing going? I gave up on it about 10 years ago because it was a little fragile and a pain to work with, but would rethink it based on your recommendations.

We should fish this spring. [email protected]



Edited by Jerry Newman 2/11/2012 10:49 AM
Droid
Posted 2/11/2012 11:15 AM (#538064 - in reply to #537946)
Subject: RE: Mono vs Braid for Trolling


This is great info! I am almost convinced to spool up two of my trolling reels with 50lb Big Game mono this year. Now for a couple more questions...

1. When using mono, do you set your reel drag tighter than when using braid to help compensate for the stretch?

2. I'm curious how tight (of course that is a relative term) you guys who troll a lot set your drags when using either braid or mono.

3. Rods are no doubt a factor in line choice as well. Since I don't troll a lot, I don't have any rods exclusively for trolling. If I were to purchase rods for trolling with mono, what recommendations do you have? I know I can spend $200+ on a glass/carbon rod...but is it really nessesary? I have hear rumors that some Ugly Stick models work just as well and are <$50.

4. I have two Yellow Bird "Big Bird" planar boards. They are okay, but tend to dive quite a bit. What is the absolute best set of planar boards and releases for muskie that I can buy?
Targa01
Posted 2/11/2012 12:58 PM (#538075 - in reply to #538064)
Subject: Re: Mono vs Braid for Trolling





Posts: 742


Location: Grand Rapids MN
I use Church Tackle Walleye boards and if you don't troll a lot then they might be best just because you won't have a ton of cash tied up in them. The front clip that comes on them out of the package is adjustable for tension and holds braids well without slipping. On the back is a pin system, not a clip, and works great. Really quick and easy to remove. Also the keel weight is adjustable to help fine tune the board to the weight/resistance of the bait. So everything said you can general find these boards for around $25-28 a piece. Offshores are great boards also and run a few bucks more but you will have to add some new hardware and this will push the cost up some; maybe around $45 each when all said and done.

I forgot to mention that Church Tackle came out with a larger size board, the TX44 I believe, and I know some who have used them and love them. Little more expensive than the Walleye Boards but if you like to run big baits these would help keep your baits further out to the side. The more drag a lure has the less distance out to the side you will get with similar line out.
hobeybaker
Posted 2/11/2012 5:07 PM (#538103 - in reply to #538064)
Subject: RE: Mono vs Braid for Trolling




Posts: 51


Droid - 2/11/2012 11:15 AM

This is great info! I am almost convinced to spool up two of my trolling reels with 50lb Big Game mono this year. Now for a couple more questions...

1. When using mono, do you set your reel drag tighter than when using braid to help compensate for the stretch?

2. I'm curious how tight (of course that is a relative term) you guys who troll a lot set your drags when using either braid or mono.

3. Rods are no doubt a factor in line choice as well. Since I don't troll a lot, I don't have any rods exclusively for trolling. If I were to purchase rods for trolling with mono, what recommendations do you have? I know I can spend $200+ on a glass/carbon rod...but is it really nessesary? I have hear rumors that some Ugly Stick models work just as well and are <$50.

4. I have two Yellow Bird "Big Bird" planar boards. They are okay, but tend to dive quite a bit. What is the absolute best set of planar boards and releases for muskie that I can buy?


1. Set it just as tight as you would with braid. The whole reason to use mono is for the stretch. Tightening it down more would defeat the whole purpose of using it.

2. I set it a little looser than I do casting. I guess it's hard to explain how tight over the computer.

3. Heavy action Shimano TDR rods work and they're only $30.

4. There's a striper guide in Missouri who makes them out of aluminum. I have three sets and they're the best inline ones you can get. If you do a search on here, you should be able to pull up a link. I think they were $30 a set when I bought them. You still need to get the heavy duty clips from Offshore.
Droid
Posted 2/11/2012 8:37 PM (#538141 - in reply to #537946)
Subject: RE: Mono vs Braid for Trolling


I found the striper guide who sells the planar boards: http://www.striperaddiction.com/plannerboards.htm

We've talked about braid, mono, and a lilttle about wire. Does anybod use leadcore? I'm thinking it might be a good way to get a shallow running lure action down deeper without adding any lead balls in front.
Targa01
Posted 2/11/2012 9:56 PM (#538150 - in reply to #537946)
Subject: Re: Mono vs Braid for Trolling





Posts: 742


Location: Grand Rapids MN
I haven't used leadcore for muskies but I'm thinking the line diameter with the higher speeds would greatly offset any weight advantage. #18 leadcore has the best weight:diameter ratio hence why it is the most common used (well for 'eyes at least) but even that with 3 colors out at 1.5mph with a lure that has near zero drag will get down around 18' give or take. Increase the speed to around 2 mph and the bait will come up 3-4'.

As far as drag tension, like I mentioned in the other similar thread, I run pretty light. I'm thinking maybe a quarter turn past what the lure will almost pull out under power. Line starts slipping as the rod seems to just reach full load. Hard to explain but over time you will learn your equipment. We have fantastic hook-up percentages. Helps to have a good boat partner who's quick to the rod!

Edited by Targa01 2/11/2012 10:00 PM
Jerry Newman
Posted 2/11/2012 10:51 PM (#538160 - in reply to #538141)
Subject: RE: Mono vs Braid for Trolling




Location: 31

Like anything, it comes with experience and there are always a ton of variables.  What works good for one person may not work good for another, budgets, the size of the target fish etc.  For instance, I developed the gas and turn strategy on a strike when I started trolling top water baits about 15 years ago, when you're traveling at under 2 miles an hour with 5/0 hooks or larger it's a necessity.

 

As a general rule you could run slightly tighter for mono initially because of the stretch, then back it off, but in my opinion it's more dependent upon the size of the bait/hooks, obviously the larger the lure/hook the tighter you're going to have to run the drag with either line.  If you set the hook with the boat you can run a pretty light drag.  To give you an idea, it's nothing for a good fish to make an initial run of 150’ with my current setup.

I personally do not like fiberglass rods, although I can understand the reasoning. I don't like them because they load up and it takes longer for me to “safely” bring the bait in, we've all had a bait come flying back at us and this just happened one too many times to me with a fiberglass rod .  I run cheaper graphite 8' rods with good backbone and softer tip, my outside board rods are a little longer 8.5 and a little stiffer. You should be able to get some nice trolling graphite rods in the $80-$120 range but to start with maybe go cheap to figure out what you like.

I used to use the large birds with the super lines for years, there's a pretty cool way to wrap the super line around the red pin releases so they don't slip. However, a good friend of mine (RM) convinced me to start using the offshore with the RO-18 clip a few years ago, he was right… definitely the gold standard, especially with monofilament. Kind of a neat trick I developed with the Offshores is to tie a piece of super line at an angle from the board to the RO-18 clip, it keeps them from loading up with weeds and spinning, it's a whole lot easier to bring them in when they are loaded up. I don't even use my mast system anymore because of the floaters where I typically fish, but again I can certainly see using a mast system at times too... but that's another conversation.

woodieb8
Posted 2/12/2012 5:37 AM (#538176 - in reply to #537946)
Subject: Re: Mono vs Braid for Trolling




Posts: 1530


most using trolling apps let the fish set the hook.
smaller wire hooks sharpened give better penetration in fish.. setting drags we normally set them on the loose side.as for rods most here use 7ft. graphite fiberglass composition. rods with foam handles will hold up better then cork in rod holders
Contender
Posted 2/14/2012 12:18 PM (#538687 - in reply to #537946)
Subject: Re: Mono vs Braid for Trolling




Posts: 360


Location: Algonac, MI
As George stated above. Mono is preferred line on LSC for trolling. Jiggin/Casting is another story.

LSC Trolling:
Braid does not work well on/in planar board clips using big boards. (not talking in-line boards)
Typical trolling set ups here, range from 5 - 30 feet of line play. ZERO stretch with braid at those lengths. Trolling 4.5mph at strike, no stretch kills equipment. (rods, reels, drags, rod holders, hooks, lures) Line stretch is your friend.

Water on LSC, is shallow in comparison, to many places. No need for braid to help get down deep. (Geo Bay, braid works better for depth v line out) Deepest part of LSC is the shipping channel, which is 35 fow. Most the fishable lake is 7-18 fow.




Edited by Contender 2/14/2012 12:19 PM
JBush
Posted 2/14/2012 4:25 PM (#538745 - in reply to #537946)
Subject: RE: Mono vs Braid for Trolling




Posts: 311


Location: Ontario
Trolling set-ups (line, lures, rods, speeds, bait sizes, bait styles) are totally regional. Guys from Kentucky to Dryden all cast bucktails, Suicks etc etc etc on rods and reels that are basically universal. But trolling is totally area-specific and much more specialized. Rich Clark's set-up is a lot different than Jody Mills, and the guys in Green Bay are different than guys fishing Honey Harbour on Georgian Bay. One guy might be grinding bottom down 24' with a large lure on single strand wire. Another might be using fifty pound mono fishing at eight miles an hour using a bass-sized lure designed to run two feet deep two feet behind the propeller. Another guy might be going 3mph with a tiny jointed bait way behind a walleye-sized inline trolling board.
If you want to get a good handle on the trolling set-up you'll have the most enjoyment and luck out of, see what the trollers in your area are using. There will be reasons why they troll with this stuff, and these will be determined by the lure choices, speed, size of lures, depths, ammount of cover etc. "Mono vs Braid" really isn't the issue. Clearly both have followers and both have very specific reasons why. What usually makes one style of set-up most popular is the localized conditions and techniques/gear being used. If you want to put together a set-up, see what guys who do a lot of trolling on your water are using. I will guarantee you it will be much more specialized than the casting equipment is. Eighty pound braided line and a bucktail or Top Raider will work no matter where you cast, from the deep south to Lake of the Woods. Trolling is far less transferable and needs to be tailored a lot more to localized considerations. Obvioussly there's going to be some overlap, but you'll be a lot further ahead by seeing what's used and why in the particular water you're interested in fishing.
Trollindad
Posted 2/14/2012 4:58 PM (#538755 - in reply to #537946)
Subject: Re: Mono vs Braid for Trolling




Posts: 208


X2 what JBush said!
Jerry Newman
Posted 2/14/2012 8:53 PM (#538819 - in reply to #538755)
Subject: Re: Mono vs Braid for Trolling




Location: 31
x3. Very well stated!  I would add to consider investing in a local guide, money well spent.   
willeysbucktails
Posted 2/16/2012 4:19 PM (#539192 - in reply to #538819)
Subject: Re: Mono vs Braid for Trolling




Posts: 191


Location: WV
100# braid
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