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Posts: 107
Location: Ohio | I went to put the second coat of epoxy on a lure and I noticed that some areas on the bait the epoxy was not adhering to the lure. It was creating empty spaces. I suspect I must have had something on my hands. I have never had this happen before. I am using ETex E-74 as the topcoat. Does anyone know what is safe to wipe the bait with in between coats to make sure it's clean? I was thinking acetone or alcohol or something like that. Any thoughts?
Thanks,
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Posts: 469
Location: MN | I use Denatured Alcohol initially and between coats of Devcon 30 minute epoxy. I always work in latex gloves. |
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Posts: 910
Location: South-Central VA | Don't use anything between coats of epoxy! There's absolutely no benefit- you're just running the risk of causing yourself major problems. Keep solvents away from epoxy and you'll be fine.
If your epoxy isn't adhering in the first coat, you most likely have some kind of contaminant on the lure. It could just be from touching it with your hands. I have a black airbrush paint...the brand slips my mind at the moment, but it causes the epoxy to pull away in some spots and always takes 2 coats to cover. It's difficult sometimes to figure out where the contaminants are coming from- don't introduce them by using a solvent between coats.
jeremy |
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Posts: 567
| Actually, most epoxy clears (2 parts) resin based recommend that you prep the surface in between coats to remove any dust/dirt or contaminate. It should be on your instructions in the kit of clear. If you are having trouble only on the first coat, it's likely that you have contamination on the surface or you are using a paint that is taking a long time to lose it's VOC materials, in other words, it aint dry.....I use methanol, I think e-tex brands recommend just alcohol in general. Most acetates i.e. butyl, MEK, acetone, MIBK, and isobutyl are too aggressive. You dont want to cut, you want to clean. No need to soak or rub aggressive. hope that helps! |
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Posts: 910
Location: South-Central VA | This may be just me, put there's no way I'd get any solvent near my lures in between coats of epoxy- you're just asking for trouble. Unless you really make a mistake and are rubbing your fingers all over the lure, you're not going to contaminate the surface anyway. If you have dust on your lure, don't wipe it down with a solvent, just blow the dust off and move on. Use care with solvents.
I gained my respect for solvents through rod building. Any competent rod builder will tell you the worst thing you can do is bring solvents into the mix when you are working with epoxy finishes.
If you need to wipe a lure (or rod) down with a solvent here's how I was taught to do it. Wipe the surface down, then scuff with a scotchbrite bad or fine grip sandpaper. Wipe the surface clean with a soft bristled brush and then recoat with epoxy. Your last step before epoxy should never be to wipe down with a solvent!
I almost forgot, it you're working with Etex, here's a great tip. Mix your epoxy as usual then cover the cup you mixed it in and let it sit for about 10 minutes before applying it. Doing so will allow it to thicken a bit and you'll find you will have far fewer issues with dust and fisheyes.
jeremy
Edited by bowhunter29 3/14/2011 8:07 AM
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Posts: 212
| I use 800 grit sandpaper and wet sand the last coat lightly, then rinse with water and allow to dry before applying my next coat. I've used windex in between layers without issues as well. |
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Posts: 567
| here are the instructions copied right from the envirotex website:
Envirotex Lite is a reactive polymer compound. It cures to a thick, glossy coating in about 8 hours at 70°F, and reaches full strength and toughness in about 48 hours. This durable, resilient material requires no polishing to produce a high gloss. One coat is all that is usually required for a deep attractive finish, however, two or more coats maybe applied one over the other by simply wiping the surface with a clean cloth and alcohol prior to recoating.
Now, that being said I have found that following instructions generally works pretty good...but we are all individuals and we do what our past experiences tell us. That is what makes each bait maker unique. Myself, working in the industrial chemical coatings business for 15 years, was taught to scuff, clean with solvent prep, and coat. I do not scuff my epoxy unless I am dealing with ruffness, simply because it is the chemical makeup that creates the bond. What most dont realize is not only does the alcohol clean the surface, but it also creates a bit of "softness" for bond. If you dont use solvent, chances are you will be fine, but- if you are and you are having problems, then you are doing something wrong. If you could not do it, they wouldn't recommend it in the first place...this is what we all know as liability..By the way bowhunter- whether or not you use solvent- those snakeskins are awesome! One day I will own one...
Edited by newmuskyz 3/14/2011 3:23 PM
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Posts: 910
Location: South-Central VA | Again, I prefer not to use solvents. I recoat while the previous coat is still tacky. That way I'm guaranteed a very strong bond between coats. If using a solvent works for you, continue doing it.
Thanks for the compliments on the snake skin lures, they're alot of fun to do. I think I've found some new skin that I'm going to try. It's about $200 per skin so I hope it's worth it.
jeremy |
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Posts: 235
| I'm with Bowhunter29 all the way. I don't use any solvent at anytime when coating my baits. I've never had a problem as long as I didn't get any dirt or oil on the baits. Once I forgot to rinse out a new syringes that I use to measure the E-tex for mixing and I got a few fish eyes on the bait. Applying another coat took care of the problem but now I'm alot more cautious and don't have any issues whatsoever. Ken |
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Posts: 107
Location: Ohio | Thanks for everyone's replies. I ended up wet sanding the areas that were affected and recoated and it turned out great.
Thanks Muskyfix!
Greg |
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Posts: 567
| wow!! 200$ skins per skin...bet those will look awesome. very unique...post some pics! love to see those! |
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| Xtreme Muskie Lures - 3/14/2011 8:51 PM
Thanks for everyone's replies. I ended up wet sanding the areas that were affected and recoated and it turned out great.
Thanks Muskyfix!
Greg
No Problem Greg, It was a pleasure, I learned a couple things from you as well..
The days of wet sanding cars and doing gel coat repairs come in handy.. |
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Posts: 1504
Location: Oregon | The spots are caused by one of two things:
1. Either you didnt' put the etex on heavy enough, or
2. You contaminated the lure in some way.
I never touch the lures with my bare hands after the primer goes on................only with latex gloves. If I do touch the lure, I clean it with rubbing alcohol on a clean paper towel.
Jed |
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Posts: 469
Location: MN | psv - 3/13/2011 12:26 PM I use Denatured Alcohol initially and between coats of Devcon 30 minute epoxy. I always work in latex gloves. I was wrong about Denatured Alcohol. I use 91% Isopropyl Alcohol. Sorry
Edited by psv 3/14/2011 10:59 PM
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Location: Ohio | I have used 100's of gallons of 2 part polymers for whatever reason you'll get that look on first coat as not covering evenly, I don't know if it is humidity, paint type, temperature, or what it always fixes it self on second coat. I agree don't put anything on the bait if you get a film of anything between layers it will separate. If your problem is on the first coat if you try to wipe down with solvent it may take your paint off. Try some more baits and a second coat if you still have the problems it maybe that your epoxy has go something in it. |
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| I don't use anything between coats, just asking for trouble if you ask me! I also have been through 100's of gallons of epoxy.....
www.biggamelureco.com |
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| I think you are right the bigest cause of fish eyes is not putting enough epoxy on the lure. It almost seems like some evaporates and as it cures it shrinks this may not be the case but When I observe the process this happens. Simply measure out slightly more than needed. |
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Posts: 34
| I'm a rookie baitmaker and don't know much about this other than what I've taught myself and learned on here. I only make baits for fun, for friends, and to fish with. That said, I messed up pretty good last night and put way to thick of a first clear coat on a batch of four baits. I checked them this AM and there are a few spots that built up very thick even though I have them turning on a rotisserie rack. Can I sand them down and add another coat or will sending may the finish "foggy?" I'm using Envirotex Lite.
Sorry, one more stupid quesiton. What's the best method to applying the Etex?
Thank you - Erik
Edited by box 3/31/2011 5:16 PM
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Posts: 531
Location: Hugo, MN | Erik, it sounds like you had too much epoxy on them. If you get it on too heavy, drips will form near edges of the baits as they rotate. When you're coating your baits, don't worry about getting too much epoxy on in one coat. A few thinner coats will give you a more consistent finish. As far as sanding and recoating, yes, you can do it. Sand it down carefully and wipe the dust off with denatured alcohol or something similar. You might still barely see where you sanded, but it covers well. Apply the epoxy with a decent quality brush that doesn't leave bristles behind. |
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Posts: 910
Location: South-Central VA | You'd be better to just sand it, blow the dust off and recoat. Stay away from the DA.
jeremy |
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Posts: 34
| Thank you all very much for the advice. I sanded and re-applied the Etex and they're spinning now. I'm embarrassed to admit it but I was using a foam brush. The first time I tried with a regular brush the bristles all came off. Got a decent brush per your recomendations and am amazed at how much better it worked. If I get the nerve up I may even post a pic or two. Gotta be honest tho, there are some real artists on here and it's a bit intimidating to put my baits out there.
One final basic question. Whats the best way to clean epoxy from the brushes?
Thank you. Erik |
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Posts: 910
Location: South-Central VA | Erik,
Get some 'epoxy brush cleaner' from a rod building supplier. I get mine from mudhole.com. When you're done applying epoxy, squeeze the excess off with a paper towel and just sit your brush in a cup of the cleaner. It's perfectly safe to store brushes in.
Do yourself a favor and get some quality nylon brushes, they work great. Use a pair of pliers to pinch the metal part the holds the bristles, it will keep them from coming out
jeremy
Edited by bowhunter29 4/2/2011 6:40 PM
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