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Posts: 87
| Hi -
My wife and I are taking the plunge...we've found our first boat!!
Here is a little background about what we're doing. We're going to purchase a 2004 Ranger boat with a 150 Yamaha Vmax motor. I won't get to physically inspect the boat until we drive to pick it up (8 hours away). The owner has been very honest and has disclosed everything they know about the boat. It is a used boat, but it has been well cared for. We are going to meet at a Cabela's (a certified Ranger dealer) and the owner has agreed to let us pay for (about $100) a full inspection (diagnostic, visual, etc.) by a certified mechanic.
Here is my question...The owner states that cosmetically and mechanically the boat is in great condition. However, the owner says that the boat has sat most of the summer and needs to have the carburetor cleaned out. He says it will start right up and idle perfect, but if you took it out on the water and slammed the throttle the motor would likely spit a little because the carbs need to be cleaned. I know nothing about motors, should I be concerned?
My initial reaction is...any issues will be identified during the inspection, but I still get a little leery about the idea of the blanket claim that the carb just needs to be cleaned out.
Give me your thoughts! Open and honest feedback is appreciated.
H20
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Posts: 167
Location: IL | Most anybody with a H.S. edumacation can clean a boat carb. Take your time and go slow,and i made it to th 9th grade. |
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Posts: 532
| The term blanket claim, is a tricky one. At times your are correct that it might be said just to cover things up. But from the way you say he is trustworthy, than maybe some sea foam or quickcleen in the gas could clear it out.
I hav heard nowadays gas can gum up in as alittle as three months if not sooner, sohis claim could be correct. Motors need to be run to stay running. I have never let my motors sit for anylength of time with out stabil, so if this boat becomes yours than i suggest using it every fill up.
MO is have the man take you for a boat ride (if you want to be sneaky, ask when you are at his place, if he says no than i would start to question. the boat should be water ready condition (unless other wise started) so i think there should be no issue with dragging it to a lake), ask for your self to start the boat (to rule out anytricks). Not in his drive way either, make him (or yourself pull it to the lake) that way if he were to put starting fluid in it it could have some tiem to flash off.
The boat idles fine (so i hear) than it should have no issue at nowake speed, you should at least hear and feel the problem, so if it does get corrected you can know it is fix rather than let someone tell you.
The man could be super honest and just told you that it had a hiccup in the low to mid range (example) that its most likely cause is crap in the carb, and through the art of explaning it made a mountain out of nothing.
If all else fails, have a WRITTEN deal with terms like 1. passing the cabelas inspection 2. with in a time frame of returns...
I have doen this before, if you want to pull it off they need to be fair. example the motor needs a new stator, ask for him to pay half assuming that is only issue (knock it off the price, more or less) Every thing needs to be reasonable. Because the seller does not want his boat gone for 3 weeks to have the buyer pull in with it asking for money back just to get his boat that had been sitting under a pine tree with sap and bird crap in it.
My suggestion, have you and your wife sit down, discuss your concerns. Not only with the motor but the whole deal. If you make a list and think of a good way to talk it over with the seller honestly and reasonably, i think both the seller and you two will come away happy. I have sold/bought many things in my life and seen all kinds of buyers, the best thing to calm a nerves buyer is to be honest no sugar coating, advise if you dont like the wording of a answer keeps asking the question a different way. That can raise red flags quick if he keeps answering it in shady terms. Work out issues or plans before the money goes from buyers hands to seller hand. It is alot harder to fix a problem after money has been extanged.
Edited by anzomcik 9/25/2010 6:34 AM
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Posts: 3504
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Hiya,
I like the idea of the inspection and the fact that the seller is o.k with you getting the motor checked. If he was hesitant upon having the inspection done, I would be a little leery as to why. Given he was fine with the inspection from the mention of it, that, to me would be a good sign that he has nothing to hide.
If the carb sputters a bit when punching it down, it probably could use a good cleaning and then a quick adjustment...nothing I would be too concerned about. To do a good deep cleaning, I would suggest a can of Mercury Powertune sprayed directly into the carb throats of the motor when the motor is running at high idle. Lots of white smoke will come out when the stuff starts burning, and you keep doing it to the point that the motor wants to die. keep going until you can kill the motor, or after you have put in about 1/3 of the can...then stop the motor. spray more into the carb throats until you have gone through about 2/3 of the can. Let it sit for an hour....Take it to the lake and run it out. You will have a good clean carb from this point on.
To be safe, I would dump in some sea foam to the tank as well...just to be sure the gas is stabilized.
If the motor sputters a touch when you punch it, that will be a fuel-air mixture adjustment...either running too lean or too rich. If you accellerate slower, it may not do it....definitely a sign of needing a turn of a screw for fuel-air mixture...but it is not very far off from being where it should.
By and large, buying a used boat will have some extra costs at the beginning and to be honest, that is o.k....it is preventative maintenance for the most part, but also brings some peace of mind when things are running well.
I'd be looking at not only the carb cleaning, but I'd also do a spark plug change, fuel filter change, and lower unit lube change.
If you get it, enjoy the new rig!!
Steve |
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Posts: 1094
Location: Hayward, WI | Spraying Powertune into the the throat of the carb does nothing to clean the carb. All it does is go straight into the engine. Good for decarboning the motor but does not clean any of the jets or passages in the carb. Be carefull with trying to run a fuel additive to "clean" the carbs. If one of the high speed jets is plugged it will make that cylinder very lean which is not a good thing. If the carbs need to be cleaned have them taken apart and cleaned. |
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Posts: 395
Location: NW WI | The guy can sound honest as GOD until he has your $$. Personally I wouldn't buy ANY used boat unless I had a change to run it on a lake and check EVERYTHING out. The motor problem could be everything from a gummed up pilot to a cracked reed.
If you're going to drive 8 hours to buy the boat, he seller should be willing to accomidate a trip to a lake with the boat.
Let us know what you do. |
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Posts: 3504
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | kjgmh - 9/25/2010 8:41 AM
Spraying Powertune into the the throat of the carb does nothing to clean the carb. All it does is go straight into the engine. Good for decarboning the motor but does not clean any of the jets or passages in the carb. Be carefull with trying to run a fuel additive to "clean" the carbs. If one of the high speed jets is plugged it will make that cylinder very lean which is not a good thing. If the carbs need to be cleaned have them taken apart and cleaned.
Hi again,
The extra cleaner sprayed into the throat of the carbs will work into the float bowl, dissolve particles of varnish there or through the reed cage. As far as jets go, you are correct in that the cleaner will not get to them, thus the added amount to not only stabilize the fuel, it will work to clean the jets as well. You are also correct that the engine will be decarbonized well, which, if never done before will increase power, and smooth out a rough running engine to some extent.
For the little bit of time the decarbonizer is running, one will not damage a cylinder if a jet is plugged. If a jet is plugged, the engine would run horribly upon throttle up to the point one would not feel comfortable running the motor at a high speed....it would sound horrible, and would peform horribly. And..chances are, throttle up would be a dog. The decarbonizer would not even have a chance to run a cylinder lean to the point of damage.
I would also agree, that if the motor will not get good power upon throttle up, a good tear down and cleaning of the carbs will be in order.
Steve |
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Posts: 1023
| If you are selling something this big then you should have it all prepped/tuned for the purchaser - IMO
Always water test a used boat!!!!!
Also, I would want to go to his house just so I know where he is at.
When I SOLD my last boat, I insisted on a water test! That way he knows it was fine when he paid. That way he will be less inclined to throw a rock through my window if it breaks down on his second outing - cause any boat can break down at ant time:)
Good luck
Landry
Edited by Landry 9/25/2010 7:38 PM
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Posts: 540
| I would agree with landry too. also even know the carb cleaning is'nt that big of a deal he better give you some sort of a deal considering the fact! |
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Posts: 87
| Thanks guys!
I am planning on picking up the boat in early October (assuming things go smoothly). I'll keep everyone posted.
H20 |
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Posts: 42
| Hi,
My dad has been a mechanic for over 40 years! He has had nothing but problems with small engines and outboard motors that has had gas with ethonal in it. The first thing you need to do or have the seller do is put some high octane gas WITH NO ETHONAL INTO THE TANK. Next put some seafoam into the gas tank and check the spark plugs for any bad color, if bad color change them with NJK PLUGS. Run the motor and see what happens. Gas with ethonal is only good for 30 days, after that it will start to gum the needle and seats. If that doesn"t work take it in and get it serviced. There is allot more to cleaning a carb than a bottle of carb cleaner and a screw driver. DO NOT TRY TO TAKE THE CARBS APART BY YOURSELF! THE MECHANIC WILL NOT ENJOY TRYING TO REPAIR YOUR MESS. Good luck!
Edited by glog 9/28/2010 6:45 PM
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| 2004 V-Max..does it have carbs or fuel injection? |
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Posts: 3504
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Glog,
Lots of assumptions in your post.... ethanol being bad for an engine is a total myth, but will be argued to our graves. The older engines need to have fuel lines replaced, then they are good to go, and will have no issues with ethanol blended fuels at the current level they are blended.
Also, where has it ever been stated that ethanol is only good for 30 days? Never have seen that one before... It draws water a little faster than non ethanol...and will break down just like non ethanol over time as well. Could it break down faster than nonethanol blends? Maybe...but if the gas is used efficiently (as we should be doing with any form of gas) the breakdown will not occur since it is used before deterioration is a potential issue. Storage of fuel over a long period of time is another story, though... Most people here get that and understand it completely.
Also, assuming people have no clue as to what they are doing with carbs is a real stretch...pretty much paints everyone as stupid which is not the case on this site. Most are pretty humble about it if they are not all that familiar with wrenching..others are very adept and humble at the same time, and the sharing of knowledge is excellent and done in a positive manner.
It would also help that you name the plug brand correctly as NGK which are the standard brand of plug for mercury and Yamaha engine if memory serves me correctly. The lack of seeing these types of things does not add to credibility, so be careful of what you write...make sure it is correct.
Finally, I think it is quite safe to admit that a thorough cleaning a carb takes more than a bottle of cleaner and a screwdriver...most people know it takes an entire kit if one does a tear down given the carb or carbs need that level of service. That didn't need to be stated and pretty much I felt that made an assumption about my knowledge...and you know absolutely nothing about me or my abilities. My statement was about the potential need for a quick fuel-air mixture adjustment, which in many cases on a carbed engine is all it takes to smooth out a rough idle, a sputter upon throttle up, etc. Doesn't take much for that mixture to be off by just a touch, and all it takes is one carb to do it, which may mean a quick adjustment with the correct equipment to ensure all cylinders are getting the ratio of fuel and air they need, which may or may not require a mechanic with the correct equipment to test the mixtures.
In closing, it is better to not assume anything about anyone here...they will let you have it...some will be very blunt about it too... I certainly can get to be that way sometimes and it may even seem that way here...
Steve |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | most of this post is nonsense ...
a V-Max powered Ranger - you'll love it!! |
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Posts: 42
| vms,
If you would read his post he states he know nothing about motors!!!! What I meant about gas with ethonal in it only good for 30 days is when it sits in a tank and it is not being used. The post was for love the h20 not for vms and I did not in anyway make any remarks about your inteligents and would appreciate that you would not make remarks like you posted.
Thank You,
glog
Edited by glog 9/29/2010 3:25 PM
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Posts: 994
Location: Minnesota: where it's tough to be a sportsfan! | DISH! there got you all! |
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Posts: 295
Location: Southern Ontario, Detroit River and Lake StClair | Guest - 9/28/2010 8:11 PM
2004 V-Max..does it have carbs or fuel injection?
Thats the thing I was wondering with all this talk about carbs with the Yamaha Vmax HPDI . HPDI stood for High Pressure Direct Injection......no carbs. I would look into this a little more before taking the honest guys word on things. Hard to have a carb issues if the motor doesnt have any. They made 3 models of Vmax. the HPDI which was most of them, the OX66 and a plain jane carbureted one
Tim
Edited by Roughneck1860 9/30/2010 9:31 AM
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Posts: 87
| Guys -
Just got a call from the dealer (Cabela's in LaVista, NE).
He stated the boat inspection went well. With repsect to the motor it is carbureted (spelling?) - it is a 2003 Yamaha vMax 150HP. He stated that compression was really good 120 in all cylinders (no idea what that means), but he said it was strong. He stated it fired right up, idled well, had good water pressure, etc.
He said the only thing would be to maybe change the plugs (he did not have any in stock) and run some cleaner through the gas.
It leads me to believe we're going to hand over the cash for this boat! Any other thoughts/comments?
H20 |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | can i drive it? |
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Posts: 1023
| water test it for sure. check every button, switch... check the transom and hull. Take your time and be thorough. The fact that he took it to Cabelas for you is a good sign but you should still water-test!
Good luck and post pics when/if it comes home.
Landry |
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