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Posts: 829
Location: Maple Grove, MN | Just to add: I'm glad that the people at Spring Bay resort did well. It was nice to hear at least someone was doing well last week there. I'd feel really bad if everyone else sucked as bad as I did. 
Edited by Herb_b 8/9/2010 4:30 PM
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| Just wondering....what you actually consider a success.
At times I would like to post some things.....but it would just pee people off.
Wealth of knowledge and large fish catches by non contributing anglers. |
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Posts: 1169
Location: New Hope MN | Yeah no 52"+ fish in Leech. Those LL strain are just plain puny...  |
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| I fished Vermilion last September for a week when the temps spiked to the highest of the entire season. Fishing sucked. I think I moved 6 fish for the week with one hooked and lost, nothing in the net. There was only one fish caught in the CAMP for the week. Tough conditions. It gave me the time to actually learn the lake, though. I went over spots again and again. I criss/crossed them and layed them out on the gps and located the high points of each reef and weed edges. I knew I'd be back again so the trip was worth it.
I went back for a quick "two dayer" two weeks ago and my partner and I boated 5 with 46.5 and 45.5 being the biggest. We were happy with that.
I'll be there from the 14th to the 21st next week hoping to use the information I gathered last year. I also have a weekend booked for November. I feel if you put the time in, the musky gods will eventually pay off. True trophies don't come easily...but they are more rewarding when you've payed your dues. It will happen, just have time on the water. I think too many people want fish every trip and that's not realistic...possible, but not realistic for the average musky fisherman. I love this game.
Jeff |
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Posts: 556
| Can't discourage me---The fishing experience is far more than just the catch--Like I said--I haven't been there yet but will be shortly--Hope I get a shot at a big fish but if not I am positive I will enjoy the experience---New lake and part of the country for me so it will all be good--I have no dreams of putting a fish in the boat everyday---Just a chance at 1 will keep me going for my 2 trips up there this year---After the 2 trips I will make my own decision if I want to come back next season---There are plenty of great Musky lakes out there I haven't fished yet, but for right now Vermillion is the one on my Radar. |
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Posts: 427
Location: Wausau | Does the thread need to be changed to: Personal Opinions About Lake Vermilion
My personal experience includes seven years at one-two weeks per outing and one-three outings per year. I have had visits with zero to six fiftys in the net, with 55 being the largest in 2009. This year, I spent July 23rd to August 6th and caught six fish. The first 3.5 days were great and we put 8 fish in the boat with a 49 during the full moon evening ( I believe this is about the same time frame 40 fish were reported). The fourth night a major storm rolled through and fishing conditions didn't seem to recover, at least for me. On an average day, we fished predawn to about 11:00 a.m. and then from 6:00 p.m. to midnight. We added one more fish over three days before my boat partner needed to leave. Lastly, I added a solid 51 from a deep hole surrounded by boulders, reefs and an island. I fished solo 12-14 hours a day, if not for T-Storms and/or high winds. In that case, I was off the water two nights before sunset b/c of lighting and one day didn't fish until night b/c of 35 mph winds during the day.
Now this is where the debate of on/off starts. To me the lake was off, even though I caught a 49 and 51. I expect more than one fish a day for the number of hours I fish and plus added past experience with time spent marking structure(s). The fish were not where I would normally find them, which was high points on reefs or closest to wind blown structure. Years past, I would at least have several follows or lost fish on a daily bases. Sadly, we went hours/day without even a sniff. I did not fish weeds at all, which could be one of the reasons I was struggling. IMHO, I see the following as reason why it was tough for me:
1> Highly educated and better prepared fishermen/women
1a> Pressure: every reef has a boat casting almost 24 hours a day. If you plan on fishing a community spot, be prepared to pick a spot at 7:00 and not moving. Because if you move, you won't have a community spot within eyesight and by the time you turn around, someone else will be where you just were.
2>Bait Fish: a ton of tulibee, perch and walleye. I witnessed 300x300 yards on Frazer Bay break out in jumping tulibee.
3> Warmer water temps in the last few years. 74 a.m. and 79 afternoon: moving fish a little deeper into preferred water temps.
4> Weather - always the trump card: Wind shifts every other day, T-Storms, post frontal, etc.
What frustrated me the most was the amount of pressure. I take pride in finding fish away from the crowds and I felt the crowds were expanding and exploring more and more as well. I believe with a boat on every spot for 20 hours a day, of course there are going to be some fish caught and a percent of those will be over 53. I'm just not one for lucky lure, lucky spot at lucky time. Currently I'm a little disheartened because I've seen a change on V, but know I have also been apart of the change...bitter sweet. The wilderness fell is what will keep me coming back, and the challenge to keep finding new spots will keep me motivated. The lake is a great choice for anyone at any time and like I said before, everyone is becoming smarter and better, so the fish are seeing the best from us.
I hope the best to those fishing Vermilion in the near future and may each catch a 50+. May your skill or luck be better than mine. |
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Posts: 536
| herb, like I said every big name musky guide from leech has caught a 56" caliber fish that I know of! |
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Posts: 829
Location: Maple Grove, MN | As for Leech:
The term Leech Lake strain is nothing more than a name. A much more accurate term is the Mississippi strain. It could also be called the Cass Lake strain or Lake Winni strain because the same strain is native to all those lakes. The Mississippi connects all those lakes and that is why the fish are there.
This got me thinking. My observation is that many of the Muskies roaming Leech Lake are found near schools of perch and perch, by themselves, simply may not be a heavy enough forage to grow really big Muskies. From what I have read, Muskies generally need something more oily like ciscos, suckers, or bullheads to reach their maximum size potential.
It could be that both I and the people I have talked to are not fishing the areas of Leech that hold the largest Muskies. Perhaps those fish are cruising Walker Bay and other areas where there are more ciscos. I do tend to focus on shallow areas where I see more fish and that may also be the areas more concentrated with perch and thusly the not-quite-so-big Muskies.
So, does it appear logical that there are Muskies that eat mostly perch and others that eat mostly ciscos? And is it possible that the cisco eaters get larger due to the heavier food content of the cisco?
I wonder what some of the guides that fish Leech think about this. |
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| Responce for Andy Grimm. I don't want to be the bearer of bad news but "I told you so" You are experiencing the pressure that results from people that have to constantly show the size of their fish and where they caught it. I understand that these boards are for sharing info and most info should be shared along with pictures. But, people need to stop posting the exact details. Leave a little mystery in the game.
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Posts: 427
Location: Wausau | Unsilent Majority,
No need to say "I told you so"...I told myself the same statement and agree. As I stated, bitter sweet knowing I was part of the initial rush and enjoyed finding fish that hadn't seen a lure 20 times all ready that day/night. It's hard for me to not want to go back because of the time I've invested, but I think it's time to find a new lake to explore. I can always stop for a shorten trip - rocks don't move and my icons/way-points are saved. Next time, information will be shared with those who share in return or not shared at all. I thought about posting a report for a few days, but felt it was unfair to let others assume Vermilion was an "easy" bite. As time goes by one learns more about this sport than just how to put numbers of fish in the boat. There is more to fishing than casting/reeling...there are important relationships to make, save and rebuild. Thanks for the reminder...although I believe you have my e-mail as well. |
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Posts: 32885
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Guides at shows talk the water up as much as anyone here. Magazine and newspaper articles. DVD sales. TV shows. Tournaments. resorts...and even resorts at Muskie shows. The pressure will abate as anglers move around, just like it has on Mille Lacs. In today's instant information society, you can't and won't keep water that big and that good secret.
Look at the Angle. That's all Dick and Doug's fault...right?
Eagle...dang that Herbie guy, anyway.
I detest revisionist history.
It's ridiculous to even think any one person personally caused the pressure up there or for that matter less than a TON of folks, the water has been well known for years. I covered a tournament years back one of the regulars here won; some very big fish were caught. I remember very clearly when the muskies there AND on Mille Lacs were just hitting the low 40" class. I remember Dave Bentley's pictures of his Mille lacs fish, and the fact very few muskie anglers were up there. My partner in OFM worked on Vermilion before any muskies were catch-able. Here; take a look...you will recognize some of the anglers:
http://muskie.outdoorsfirst.com/board/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=16...
Unless you live on the water or fished it regularly before the Muskies grew up, you are part of your own problem. Pelican Lake here in WI has one of the highest angler hour counts for muskies in the state. I guided that water for years, and caught quite a few over 50". Several made it into the papers. But...I didn't cause the exodus there; believe it or not MI logs had as much to do with it as all the media combined.
What is truly amusing to me is the complaining about the very source of information on which the complaint is lodged. That's too funny.
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Posts: 221
Location: Detroint Lakes, MN |
Leech has a very healthy population of ciscoes, suckers, bullheads and burbot for muskies to feed on Herb.
Murphy caught 2 57" fish in Leech this decade. Last year Schriver Sr. caught a 55 1/2 that was massive.
The week of the challunge last year saw a 53"er entered. Watched a guy land a 54" up in portage bay.
People commonly refer to the MN muskies that are stocked as Leech Lake strain because that is they lake they came from. They didn't take them our of Cass or Winnie.
JS
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Posts: 536
| yap like js said, leech has a good population of tulibee and whitefish! |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | what kind of puppies and kittens were they? |
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Posts: 32885
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Dang, Sled, be careful you don't end up in Sponger's old position here. Miss that guy some days. |
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| Do I think there are big muskies in Leech? Yeah, but I believe that Leech gets more credit than credit is due.
Considering the Schneider tournament in September. I have fished it several times and since this tourney is open to many lakes, there is nothing that says these fish were caught on Leech lake. Each year I fished it there were more 50"+ fish caught on lakes less than 10,000 acres (as part of the tourney) than were caught in Leech. Based on information I heard after the tournament, many of the "Leech" fish were not even caught there in the first place, but Leech got the credit because they wanted pressure somewhere else (off said lakes under 10,000 acres).
In 1996 there were two tremendous fish caught in MN that received a LOT of notoreity. One tackle company laid claim to BOTH of these fish. One was credited to Leech, but there were several people in the local circles that said it was caught elsewhere.
Yeah, this is a lot of heresay and conjecture, but we as musky fishermen do it to ourselves.
Just because we see a picture, read a story or a post about big fish being caught somewhere, doesnt mean they actually were.
Regarding the Leech Lake strain not getting big, well, many of the muskies in Mille Lacs were "Wisconsin Strain". We all know what bruisers are in there, and there is no such thing as a musky over 40 inches in Wisconsin. Tongue in cheek of course to a cheeseheads to the East. |
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Posts: 393
Location: Hopefully on the water | Sorry to put my 2 cents worth on this but complaining about seeing 50" fish and the amount or lack there of. Come on, really, how many angler out there would be happy to see a 50" fish even if it doesn't hit. I know personally that I would be thrilled to see multiply 50" fish in a day. I can say that honestly that I may have only seen 2 in 12 years. Yes I went to Mille Lacs years ago when it was supposededlt on fire and landed nothing in a couple of trips out there. Would I go back, YES, or to Vermillion just for the chance to see them or the hopes that one would hit. The people that put the time in on ANY lake will reap the benefits of it. Granted a outside going on a hot bite (like myself) may catch one here and there but I am more likely to miss that outside or inside turn than the regulars already know about to the fish and the structure. While for some people just the sight of seeing some of these big fish may be worth the trip in itself for some of us. There will always be a hot bite somewhere. Must we always bash the lake or person that wants to take the chance to get in on this. |
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Posts: 281
Location: ROckford IL | I was up there for the week of July 24th- July 31st and I can say that Spring bay Resort is a great place to stay, I never had a issue with anything I needed, they take care of their guest and go above and beyond. Now as far as fishing goes, it is not easy, I can say that, some days we fished 16 hours non stop, we did finally boat a 52 but it was hard work to get these fish to go, I had a couple of chances that I also did not connect on but if you put in your time and do it wisely you can get paid. I took my good friend up there for the first time and he only caught 2 muskies in his whole life up to that point,but he fished hard with me up on the big v, his hard work finally paid off when he hooked that 52". I put dude on a fish of a lifetime and he will never forget that day. The lake does get pressure but so does many other hot musky lakes, the big fish are in there, I seen a ton of pigs cruzing around, you just got to be on the spot at the right time and in the right place, I still love Vermillion regardless
Edited by Bigman 8/10/2010 6:44 AM
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Location: Twin Cities | Herb_b - 8/9/2010 7:04 PM
As for Leech:
The term Leech Lake strain is nothing more than a name. A much more accurate term is the Mississippi strain. It could also be called the Cass Lake strain or Lake Winni strain because the same strain is native to all those lakes. The Mississippi connects all those lakes and that is why the fish are there.
Genetics studies show more diversity from lake to lake than you're assuming exists. I can't recall the speakers name, but he was at the TC meeting last winter. |
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| had this discussion w/ some buds on the water in MN this summer...even though the fish may be from the same hatchery, every lake has it's own coloration and build to the fish in it...You can take ten, 48 inchers from 10 different stocked lakes and they all will have different builds and coloration/spots. Kind of interesting to see the diversity from lake to lake even though they are the same genetics.
back to the discussion/debate.
We all are different staged in our musky fishing. Some are just happy to see a 50 incher in a week. While some have seen 20 in a week and caught multiple 50s in a day. It all boils down to what you realistically can expect to catch/see. Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good. But even the good fishermen on V have been having a fairly tough time all summer. I can catch way more mid 40s in a week to MN than I can in a week in WI on any water. That I know. |
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Posts: 829
Location: Maple Grove, MN | Its good to hear that there have been some very large Muskies caught on Leech in the past few years.
I had pretty much written Leech off a few years ago as a big lake with lots of mid-sized Muskies. The problem I had was I would fish Leech Saturday morning with minimal success. I would then fish one of the smaller Longville area lakes on Sunday morning and usually boat 1 to 3 Muskies that were often larger than the ones I was seeing on Leech. So, I could either see a few Muskies on Leech or catch larger Muskies elsewhere. Hmmm. What sounds better there?
I do also believe that many of the big Muskies that are caught on other Longville area lakes are often reported to have come from Leech. Not that I would ever do that. 
As far as seeing 50s, I have seen as many as three in a day on one of my regular lakes this year. One was a massive tiger that would easily surpass the MN Tiger Muskie record and may push the world Tiger Muskie record late this fall when she fattens up. Those are the type of fish I'm after these days.
Good luck all. |
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Posts: 3147
| JRedig
it was Dr Loren Miller,,,,great speaker for any club intrested in this subject |
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Location: Twin Cities | happy hooker - 8/10/2010 1:17 PM
JRedig
it was Dr Loren Miller,,,,great speaker for any club intrested in this subject
Thank you! It was an excellent presentation and discussion. |
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Posts: 726
Location: Eau Claire, WI | Sled, I'm with Steve, that line cracked me up. I want to know more about the puppies and kittens too!
C'mon herb, spill it! I want pics and I want the locations of all the puppies and kittens. I would also like to know if they show any kind of preference for one kind of treat over another.
: - )
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Posts: 477
Location: Iowa | jonnysled - 8/9/2010 10:19 PM
what kind of puppies and kittens were they?
LOL Very good question. |
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Location: MN | Lone Stone - 8/10/2010 8:09 PM
jonnysled - 8/9/2010 10:19 PM
what kind of puppies and kittens were they?
LOL Very good question.
jonnysled, thanks for lightening the mood! I laughed.
Very interesting posts regarding Vermilion and people's thoughts. I started fishing Vermilion six years ago and pounded it for four years straight, often spending weeks at a time on the lake living in my boat and at my family's cabin. At the end of the fourth year I was absolutely sick of the constant pressure and combat fishing; so I left. I stopped fishing the lake for the past two years. Recently I made it back up and what did I see, much the same. The pressure was still there, the fish were still spooky, but I will say it is sooooo much nicer to fish than fishing here in the MN metro. It really felt good to fish in the "wilderness" again and hear the loons, see the northern lights, etc. The quality of being on the lake was an A+ for me. From a fishing standpoint, the only draw is the potential for nailing a true monster. I know how fickle the lake can be but I know there are fish of a lifetime swimming around. This fact combined with the scenery & ambience will have me coming to the lake regularly again. However, I do have to agree with Herb on fishing some of the local waters. I have caught more trophy muskies fishing the past two years in the metro lakes than I did in my four years of pounding Vermilion, go figure. |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | fished it from 1978 - around 1986ish. my perception especially after reading this thread is that it looks like a good smallie lake got wrecked by an invasive species and it's corresponding anglers. guys fishin' smallies back then didn't fight near as much as muskie guys do and al gore hadn't started inventing stuff yet, so the braggin' had to wait til we got back home over a cold shmidt and a bowl of popcorn down at the city club so you could get away with a lot more b.s. than you can these days. i wonder if the photshop creators were even born by then. sucks to get old ... |
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Posts: 32885
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | The smallmouth fishing is still as good Sled. Sue and I intend to beat on them for a week. Bluegills, too. Sacrilege....and it's all just good fun until the smell of frying fish wafts over the camp....
You ain't old. You're just seasoned. |
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