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| Message Subject: Need rod and reel advice please | |||
SteveP |
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Posts: 9 | Well guys I need to know what to purchase. I kinda fooled around last year with a couple of local lakes that I frequent that do have a few Tiger Muskie in them, although I only had a fair to midland spinning rig I was able to work a few fish to the boat and had a few crush my baits, but was never able to land them. I am wanting to go to conventional reels and fish with 80-100 lb braid. I am new to this kind of fishing as I am most typically a fly fisher (hadn't picked up normal fishing gear in almost 5 yrs till last year). Now all that being said I don't have a ton to spend and though I would like to have a few shimano reels I can't afford them (maybe on the lower end i could or used maybe) As for rods i am looking to cast 1-4 oz baits mostly I have been building them all winter and have a huge selection of plugs and spinners built and ready to go. I also build a lot of rods but mostly fly rods and a few rods for a couple local bass guys.... so if you could point me in the direction of good blanks at a reasonable price that would be great as well. I really appreciate the time and have already learned a good deal from reading all the posts and informative stuff you have here. Steve | ||
| jackson |
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Posts: 582 | Well, it really depends on what you want to spend. for midrange, i would go to gander mtn and get one of there 8 foot rods in heavy fast action. They are quite nice for about $99. Or you could look at the okuma rods (same specs) for about $20 more. These rods will last and are quite good. For the reel, you could look at the Shimano cardiff. It's about $100 and will last as long as you take care of it. Its not the top of the line but i have had one for a few years and it still holds up well compared to my calcutta's and AC300's. At this point, you could also look at the telescopic rods from okuma (lifetime warranty), however, these are big rods for big baits and if you are going to throw heavey lures all the time, you will need to step up in your reel. Also, throwing a 8'6" telescoping rod all day long gets tiring and IMO you don't need this rod for everything. a good 8' heavy fast is a great all purpose. Even a 7'6" can fit here. more expensive route-- SCroix 8' heavy or X heavy rod. That will run you about $200+ or so. Is it that much better than the above rods? its debatable.. but what you get with this rod is lighter weight. The rods mentioned above are still good in this catagory as many avid users use them and there are many others in this catagory suck as Tackle industtries, tooth tamer etc... all around the $150 price range. What gets more expensive here is the reel. I prefer St. Croix AC300 reels and Shimano Calcutta 400B's. Both are $229. They are built a little better. I used the AC300 for the really big lures (blades and bulldawgs) and the calcutta for jerk baits, bucktails and everything else. They are built better but still not indestructible. They require the same attention to keep them working. There is also the Shimano TE400 but that will run you about $400. It's a great reel, but too much $ for my taste. The really high end is the custom rods. for example, you can order a rod from Thorne Bros that is customized to your liking. These rods can hit close to $300. I would just say, don't go expensive on the rod and get a cheap reel. (or vice versus).. for line i suggest power pro 80#, or Stealth 80# braid. Both work well with a 12-14" stealth mono leader. you will probably get some people here saying to get a trinidad or salt water reel. But it sounds like you are new to this, and having a non level wind reel isn't really for beginners. But again, there will be lots of opinions. Edited by jackson 1/26/2010 10:15 AM | ||
| lambeau |
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| for around $100, it's worth looking at Black River rods. http://blackriverrods.com/ a nice variety of power and actions to cover the different sizes of lures at a really good price point. it'll give you a quality rod without breaking the bank at this point. re: building your own rods on blanks, i do know that some of the major companies such as St Croix make their blanks available for rod builders. for reels, i agree with your idea of getting a quality brand such as Shimano and saving some cash by buying something used. the Curado 300 is a great multi-use reel that's lightweight, powerful, and durable. enjoy! Edited by lambeau 1/26/2010 11:14 AM | |||
| MuskieMike |
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Location: Des Moines IA | I'm a big fan of the Okuma EVX Musky series. The lifetime gaurentee is a huge plus IMHO. One of their sales rep is a member on this boards, which is nice, they offer great customer srvice. I like the telescoping rod feature as well, easier to store. For the 1-4 oz baits, I would suggest either 8'6H, or perhaps the 8'6 XH, but most likely the Heavy . | ||
| MUSKYLUND1 |
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Posts: 203 Location: Germantown, WI | Steve, It sounds like you are just starting out. There is a lot of musky tackle out there these days and it can be confusing. You can pay a lot of money in a hurry, but you don't need the most expensive stuff to catch muskies and have a good time. For the lure weights that you specified I don't think you can beat the Gander Mtn rods. I have 4 of them from 6'2" up to 7'6". You can get a good rod from Gander Mtn for about $80, maybe even less if on sale. For an all around rod I would not buy anything shorter than 7'6". MH action should be fine for the lure sizes you mentioned. I've enjoyed using my 7'6" Gander rods for small spinners and minnowbaits. As far as reals go, I would recommend a Bass Pro Pete Maina series round reel in the high speed version. They are on sale right now at Bass Pro for $55 (closeout now that they have a new line without the Pete Maina name on it for $99). I just bought another one. I would also recommend the Pfleuger Trion 66. You can pick them up through Overstockbaits.com or FFO.com (Pure Fishing Outlet) for about $75-$80 (retail is normally $99). For line I would recommend at least 80# super line. There are many options for the braided super lines out there. Expect to pay about $30-$35 for a 300 yd spool. I've had good luck with Spiderwire Stealth or Tuffline XP. Fill the spool about halfway full with 20# mono then tie in the braided line with a blood knot or a similar knot. You probably don't need to change the line more than once each season if that. Oh yeah. Don't forget to use a quality leader. You can make your own pretty easily from single strand wire or fluorocarbon (80-130#). I hope that helps. Good luck this season. Tom | ||
| Flambeauski |
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Posts: 4343 Location: Smith Creek | http://www.stcroixrods.com/pdfs/STC_2010_Rod_Builder.pdf Look at the 2M's on page 10, a little over $100 for the blanks. I'd go with the 2M80HF or 2M80MHF. Obviously there are a lot of blanks (Batson, Seeker) out there that will handle 1-4 oz but most are saltwater blanks which is a totally different beast than a muskie blank. As far as reels go, quite a few choices for $100 or less, in my experience they won't hold up to frequent use but will work fine for occasional use. | ||
| SteveP |
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Posts: 9 | You all have hit it right on the head... I'm new to this kind of game (crappie, blue gill, bass, carp, and gar on the fly is more my style) so yeah the whole muskie thing is a bit daunting, I had looked closely at the St. Croix line of blanks and since I actually get a small discount on those being a small business I have been thinking really hard about them. I just really didn't know where to start and I will only be doing this a hand full of times during the summer with only one local lake (about 60 acres) that contains muskie or pike and the closest after that being near 3 hrs away it wont be an every weekend thing like you have up north. The gander mountain rods look good and sound great but I really like to hold one in my hand before I purchase it.... and the nearest Gander to me is close to 5 hrs away. I do like the look of the Bass Pro reels and think I will be looking into them soon, How do you like them for burning inlines.... do they pick up line fast enough? Thanks so much this has been helpful keep it coming I'm all ears. Steve | ||
| MUSKYLUND1 |
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Posts: 203 Location: Germantown, WI | Steve, The Bass Pro reels are fine for burning inlines. I would not use them for the big Double 10s, but most spinners up to size 8 should be no problem. You won't find many musky reels that are truly high speed reels except for the Abu Garcia C4. I've used the C3, but never the C4. The C4 does not have the crankin power or the durability of a lower gear ratio that is why most musky anglers are using lower gear ratios. If you want to fish bucktails I would recommend regular Buchertails, Mepps Musky KIllers or Blue Fox Super Vibrax. Especially if you are fishing a 60 acre lake. You might also want try some Spinnerbaits such as an M/G . No need to go to the big stuff that everyone seems to be fixagted upon these days. | ||
| SteveP |
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Posts: 9 | So what would you suggest for double 10's ??? I have a few and plan to throw them, matter of fact I had three of 5 follows and one of two slams (I call them slams since I have never felt a "hit" like that before) on them last year so I plan to throw them... A LOT. Steve | ||
| Dave T. |
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Posts: 512 | I use the maina reels for double 10s, havent had any problems yet.. I just got another one yesterday, the 4.2:1 so it should be easier to fish em.. Have them on clearance at bass pro for $58. Cant beat that... good luck, and be careful, you can spend a lot of money on this sport!!! Dave | ||
| MUSKYLUND1 |
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Posts: 203 Location: Germantown, WI | Steve, I'm not saying you can't throw a double 10 on the Maina reels. I'm sure you can. I don't use them for that purpose. I would guess that the low speed reel would be easier to use and probably would not wear out as fast as the high speed reel, but you did say burning so I would guess that you want a higher speed. I don't throw double 10s a lot, but when I do I use either an Abu Garcia 7000C3 or an Okuma Induron IDX-400A. The 7000 is a low gear ratio reel, but has a much bigger spool than a Maina reel so you can get more speed. The Okuma is a high speed reel and I use it with a power handle. That is the one I will use if I want to burn a double 10. Alot of guys out there are using Shimano Calcutta TEs, Daiwa Lunas or St Croix Avids (same as the Luna), but they are all way over $200 each and that is out of my price range. Rods and reels are just tools. You can buy a $10 hammer or $100 hammer, but they basically do the same thing. If I was starting out I would look for quality merchandise at an affordable price, but that's just me. If you buy a St Croix Legend Tournament Elite rod and pair it with a Shimano Calcutta TE you will have a great setup that will probably give you years of service, but that is certainly the $100 hammer approach. If you were a guide or someone who gets to fish several times a week throughout the open water season you might be more inclined to pay for extra durability. If you are a guide lost time costs you money and you can't afford to have failures on the water. All tackle breaks, even the most expensive rods and reels. I hope that helps. Good luck to you this coming season. Edited by MUSKYLUND1 1/27/2010 12:30 PM | ||
| SteveP |
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Posts: 9 | Thanks a bunch guys, really do appreciate the help, I am actually looking into the Lamiglass rod blanks, now they do have some blanks specifically for muskies, but they also happen to have blanks that very closely mimic the specs of the higher priced "muskie" blanks for a much more reasonable price, so I'm gonna take my chances. I have 4 reels ordered from the Bass Pro and they should be here in a week or so. Guess I kinda bit the bullet and jumped in with both feet. Thanks again I'll make sure and post some pics of the rods when they are built so you all can see what I'll be slinging with. Steve | ||
| Flambeauski |
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Posts: 4343 Location: Smith Creek | A word of warning: Lami makes good blanks, but if if you go with a non-muskie blank, even if the specs seem good its going to load WAY too much for twin 10's, on the cast and especially the retrieve. Imagine using a steelhead blank rated 1-4 oz. Same deal. The swimbaits and sinkers those blanks are designed for don't have near the resistance of a twin 10. You'll be fine with smaller bucktails and plugs, though. | ||
| STUSHSKY |
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Posts: 375 | flambeauski makes an incredibly important point for those out there shopping for rods. a direct experience that i had that proves that point is...a few years back i had a croix legend rod made, that i was going to use for musky fishing, that was rated at 3 - 8 oz baits but the blank used was the "mega swimbait" out of the "bass" rods catagory. in my opinion, as it turned out, it's the perfect rod for crankbaits, topwaters and with db's up to #8 blades in that the rod does not load too much in the eight. i did throw heavier weight baits up to say mag dogs with it but the cast was more like a "lob" than any other description and figure eighting was quite a chore to say the least with db 10's. two years later i had another rod made out of a croix legend "big dawg" blank rated at 4 - 10 oz baits which is a "true" musky blank. ok, some may think that a rod rated at 3 - 8 oz - xh fast action vs one rated at 4 -10 oz - xh fast action are very "closely related"...NOT! the swimbait rod's action is vastly different in that when it loads, whether when casting or figure eighting, the bend is much deeper down the blank vs the big dawg blank. that being said, after using both of these rods for a while now i find that the "big dawg" is much more overall versatile vs the "mega swimbait" in that i can throw anything from light to heavy-weight baits with it and it doesn't load much in the eight with the db's which is what i prefer in a rod. do i leave the swimbait rod at home now? no, but that rod is now strickly for topwaters and crankbaits. the only thing that needed to become "second nature" for me when using these two rods is that once a fish was hooked i had to realize that it took a bit more to keep a good bend in the "big dawg" vs the "swimbait" when fighting it in order to not let any slack line issues occur. of course rod and reel maufacturers want us to believe that we "need" many many different combinations for the many many types of baits out there today that we throw but in my opinion i found the better "value" was for me to buy a couple high-end quality rods / reels vs. a bunch of lower range quality rods / reels. Edited by STUSHSKY 1/28/2010 11:08 AM | ||
| Doug_Kloet |
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Posts: 202 | I would recommend Tooth Tamer rods, very well built rods for $140-$150. Check out there new website which is still under construction http://www.toothtamerrods.com. Captain Doug Kloet http://www.dougkloet.com Edited by Doug_Kloet 1/28/2010 2:03 PM | ||
| SteveP |
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Posts: 9 | Thought about that aspect and as an avid rod builder I took that into account and actually went out and found the blanks to hold side-by-side. though I think I may be a bit under gunned for the double 10's I'll give it a go with the first one and see where I come out, I'm only going to build one at a time unless the first one turns out to be "THE TICKET" then I'll pop for the rest of the blanks. Other wise I'll be going one at a time looking for what this rod seems to work best for and what I need in it's place to make the next one work better for something else. I'm not 100% sure it's going to work out the way I really want it to but I'll hope for the best and if it comes down to it I may pop for one really nice rod to do just what I want that i lack on the others.... it's a learning curve you know!!! Steve | ||
| Flambeauski |
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Posts: 4343 Location: Smith Creek | Sounds like you got a good handle on things. Just don't put snake guides on there  | ||
| AFChief |
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Posts: 550 Location: So. Illinois | Amazon.com has a few Okuma EVx Musky rods from between $87.99 to $109.99 with free shipping. I just bought one and saved a bunch of money -- Pretty good deal. There are several rods offered that would fall into your 1 to 4 oz range. Below is what is available: 6'10" XH, 4 to 10 oz 7'4" H, 2 to 10 oz 7'6" H, 2 to 6 oz 8'0" H, 2 to 6 oz 8'6" H (telescoping), 2 to 8 oz 8'6" XH (telescoping), 4 to 12 oz Jerry Edited by AFChief 1/28/2010 5:23 PM | ||
| MUSKYLUND1 |
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Posts: 203 Location: Germantown, WI | I bought one of the 8'6"XH Telescoping from Amazon for $95 with free shipping in early January. I haven't fished it yet, but so far I couldn't be happier. I will be using it for Mag Dawgs, Mag Super Ds, and Double Tens. It appears to be a quality rod at a great price. | ||
| SteveP |
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Posts: 9 | Flambeauski, thanks for that tip.... I've been thinking that I may need to look at something else since I'm pretty sure even the largest snakes i have from a few 10wts I built a while back would create a good deal of line drag!!! lol Do you think it would be alright if I went ahead with the agate stripper though??? Would you go with 2 strippers or a collector and two strippers on one of these?? Too funny man. So you all have peaked my interest in the telescopic rods...... the only telescopic rods i can even remember seeing I was8 or 8 yrs old and they were from the 70's era then, and to say the very least they were giant pieces of poooo. So do you all really believe in them, and believe you get the same action from one as you would from say a one or two piece??? I'm just looking from my stand point as a rod builder, the more sections you put into a rod the more stiff spots it has thus lending itself less and less to proper flex for loading up on a cast (so important in fly fishing). To be honest now I'm just asking questions to satisfy my curiosity... I may need to see if i can find one used a good price just to play with it and see if I can convince myself I believe in it. Now like I say my experience is with poooooo from the 70's and technology has advanced greatly since then for sure so I am not saying that what you have is junk by any means (I've seen enough of them for muskie anglers in every other google search I have done so far) I'm just dumbfounded that so many of you have said you have them and use them and like them... new concept from the rather snooty world that fly fishing can be ( as a fly fishing carp angler I am not new to being looked down upon). By the way I have hooked one muskie in my life.... it was on a fresh built 12wt G Loomis that I was building for a customer, He is a local that goes to Cabo a couple times a year sail fishing and such and really wanted to have a fly rod to try and hook one up. Just after the finish had cured totally I took it to this particular lake to test cast it and play with a rod I could NEVER afford myself, I made three casts about 55-65ft with this large sailfish popper/teaser when I had this huge explosion in the water and the line ripped from my hand and suddenly it dawned on me that this was NOT my gear and it did not look good, I had a relatively light (15lb I think) tippet on so I cranked the drag and expected the line to snap any second when it came partially out of the water and I thought..... I can land this fish, well long story short I broke the rod and the line and did not land the fish. I warrantied the blanks and rebuilt for him (good guy, he understood, sorta) and apologized many many times over. That right there started my obsession for muskies and I do plant to take MY fly rod back out after one this summer when they come up to feed on the crappies as they spawn (and are dumped from the hatchery trucks...hehehe), but want a back up plan and a way to try something new as well. Steve | ||
| sworrall |
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Posts: 32886 Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I'm using two Okuma EVX telescoping rods, and really like them. Great rods at a great price, and tough as nails. Excellent action from the butt to tip. I use an 8'6 H and an XH coupled up with Red Isis reels, not a bait in the boat I can't throw other than my Weagles, I prefer a short rod to work those. | ||
| Flambeauski |
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Posts: 4343 Location: Smith Creek | Collector, two strippers, and a mahagony handle with a bird's nest maple reel seat will perform the best. | ||
| MUSKYLUND1 |
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Posts: 203 Location: Germantown, WI | Steve, The telescoping musky rods like Okuma EVX are not the telescoping rods your remember from the 70s. They are more like a bass flipping stick in the way that they telescope. That is to say that most of the blank does not telescope. The telescoping portion is only as long as the butt section (entire handle). For the 8'6" Okuma EVX it telescopes down to about 7'. That wouldn't let you put it in the trunk of your car, but it might make it easier to put it in lockable rod storage or fit it in the back of my Chevy S-10. I have to admit that I was a bit sceptical at first, but when I heard the stuff that folks like Steve Worrall and Joel Michel (Tuffy1) were saying about them I was convinced. Edited by MUSKYLUND1 1/29/2010 12:38 PM | ||
| Flambeauski |
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Posts: 4343 Location: Smith Creek | Most of what you know about 1 vs. two piece blanks continues to hold true but; 1: they have come a long way in 30 years, 2: 8 to 9 foot one piece blanks don't fit in rod lockers and suck to ship, 3: you don't need sensitivity with muskie rods. | ||
| fish4musky1 |
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Location: Northern Wisconsin | My local gander mountain has all of their gander brand rods 30% off. I was in looking at the 100 $ ones. They are called Tournament Musky. They feel really nice and if I didn't buy a St. Croix a couple years ago I would buy one. They are a good deal at 100 and 30 % off is a great deal. I have been using my 8ft MH st. croix for the past 3 seasons and it has been great. Great multi-purpose rod and very comfortable to fish with. | ||
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