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| Message Subject: New Water | |||
sworrall |
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| I am currently learning a lake in Oneida/Vilas County that has a good population of Muskies, Bass,Walleyes and panfish. I started this Saturday, using a jig to confirm the general info on the map. What has amazed me are the little spot on the spot areas I have found using the jig to countdown the depth, and find weeds and rock. So far I have about 70% of the shoreline structure fished. I should be able to finish the shoreline this weekend, and get to the deep structure later this summer. If I had been fishing any other lure, I would never have found the small points and fingers sloping out into the deeper water. Last night I found a flat not on the map that held at least one good Muskie, and a BUNCH of Largemouth. The creature I am using sinks 1 foot per second, so it is a great long distance depth finder/weedline indicator/inside-outside turn finder. Anyone else do this to learn new water?[:0] | |||
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| I used to do that but now I have my perfectly working Pinpoint (Knock on Wood)that does it for me I just set the depth track for my depth and set the sens to max, it's amazing what can be found that charts won't show, just remember to mark these spots on your gps for future reference | |||
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| Steve and that lake is? I don't think it's nice that you call Jason Smith a creature. He is a nice guy.[;)] Good luck and stick a pig! | |||
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| I use my Aqua View a lot when learning new water. This works very well with two people. One guy needs to run the boat while the other guy looks to see whats going on. This would work really well with a pinpoint trolling motor. | |||
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| Actually, it is two lakes connected, Shishebogma and Gunlock. I don't think the Pinpoint would do it, as I am staying in 15 to 18' and casting 60 ahead to find the tops of the 5 to 8' stuff. Many times, the 18' line stays nice and level with the map, but the break has fingers that reach out 20' or more along the primary break, creating inside and outside turns.[8)] | |||
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| Steve, I fish both lakes often (my buddy has a place on Shish). Gunlock has been so-so, except for the northers and bass. In Shish, concentrate near the retirement home and its docks. Also, by the old, enclosed boat house. There is a hump in the middle of... enough said already!! Good luck | |||
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| Steve, Why learn the lake so slowly? Take an hour and graph it. That will increase your knowledge 10-fold..... and enough to help you "stay in 15 to 18' and cast 60 ahead to find the tops of the 5 to 8' stuff". Then learn the subtelties of your "new" lake as you fish..... without the painfully SLLLOOOOOOOOOWWWWWW technique of a jig. Also, use the "highlighting" technique with your maps. This helps you see those "secondary" structures that are often deeper and overlooked. Classic stuff jumps out at you too. If you are looking for a single boulder perfectly placed on a breakline, or a "hidden" deeper weedbed, or a subtle depression in a weedline, or a sunken tree on an otherwise barren sand shore, or a number of other "small" structures.... there are FASTER methods to find them. Your jig&creature will work.... but it will take a long time. Most of us these days don't have that kind of time. Do you really think that is the best way to learn a lake..... or do you simply find personal satisfaction with this jig&creature technique??? I hope it is the latter, cause I don't have the time (or patience) to fish with a jig.[:halo:] | |||
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| Only graphing the lake will not do the trick for me either, because the boat grid would have to be way too tight. Also, one would miss the smaller spot on the spot pieces I find. Plus, with the jig I know if the weed cover is cabbage, coontail, NA Pond weed, Tobacco Cabbage, etc, and I find hard bottom/soft bottom transitions quickly. Graphing would actually take longer for me than the way I do things, as I am keyed on the primary breaks and the water within casting distance. Besides, once fished using good boat control, the jig for exploration reaching out 60' from the sonar reading toward the break, and the map for reference--- the structure is 'locked' in my memory banks for good. It took me two evenings ( about 8 hours) to pretty well learn about 700 acres of the lake. I use a 1/2 ounce jig and creature, and fish it pretty fast. Sue was fishing a Spinnerbait, and had no problems with clean water to cast to. I found 5 excellent Smallmouth locations, 3 super concentrated groups of Largemouth, and a total of three muskies were raised, with one more lost. We also caught some walleyes. Good question, Jlong. I am not all wrapped up with the jig, I just find it to be a great search tool. I agree with you on the search techniques you mention, but find the method I described to be really easy, not too time consuming, and very very accurate. 'Course, I HAVE used the technique for a very long time, so all that practice may make it easier for me. Besides, I am probably way to methodical.[;)] | |||
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| What kinda of a jig and tail are you using? | |||
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| Yesterday I was using a 1/2 ounce Diamond head and a Fliptail Creature. Day before, a 1/3 ounce Powerhead and a 'bass' style lizard. 17# mono, a 7'rod, sevenstrand leader. Using the reel to rip the jig, three quick turns of the handle unless I contacted some bass or walleyes, and wanted to slow down and pop a couple.[:praise:] | |||
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| Try casting a crank like a Slammer Deep Diver and running it along the edge. When you hit weeds, you stop!, the bait will go backwards and then two seconds later you start reeling again. I can run 100 yards of tight weed edge, hitting weeds and weed pockets on the edge without a single weed on my bait.. I can learn every nook and crany and pocket, I can feel everything and learn the spot on the spots that produce muskies, even on high preasure urbon waters. So to answer your question, yes this does work.. and yes you did have many 50's on jigs, but did you ever have a 48 fish month jigging a breakline?, I did cranking![;)] | |||
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| Steve, You need to read this. http://www.toptackle.com/finding_fish_on_new_water.htm I gotta agree with the others, you have WAY too much time on your hands![:bigsmile:] | |||
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| I don't usually use a jig or graph the lake. I read the shoreline and go to where I can find the steepest breaks on the map. To be honest, some of my best spots are found by stumbling onto them. Brian | |||
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| OK, I asked if anyone else does this, and apparently, no one does. I will continue to!! I learn the water, absolutely every aspect of it as I fish it, and sometimes even pop a biggggie! I am alittle surprised at the idea that there is so little time to apply to studied dissection of the water. Joel!! Great article!! I do most of the things you discuss, too, but can't troll this water. Also, to clarify, I use the sonar the entire time to do a carefully controlled drift while searching out the subtle little areas the jig tells me about. The map is a starting point, and the shoreline tells me the bottom content and contours to a point. Pines on the shore mean harder bottom, Popples or Birch softer, and so on. Jason, I agree the crankbait is a good search lure for partially submerged cover, and will definitely give one the outside edge. I have seen you at work with that technique. I use the Slammer ALOT after watching you work it, but AFTER I learn an edge. That is me! What I was attempting to convey was the effectiveness of reading the water using your sonar, your trolling motor, and a properly rigged creature. I am not arguing about the effectiveness of any one lure for catching fish, never was. As the hurried guys burn over a spot on the spot, I will know it's there, and drop my Suick/Slammer/Underatker, etc. right into that invisible 9' deep weedline inside turn on the cabbage edge. You know the one, about as big as a double boat length. Has a gravel pocket in the center Seems there is always a big girl living there.....[:bigsmile:] I just described an inside turn on the eastern edge of Muskie Bay on Pelican. Have caught many good muskies there, and it is a MECCA for big 'eyes in the Fall, too. The spot is tiny, and easily missed. There is no way I would have found it without fishing it with a jig, in my opinion.[:0] | |||
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| Steve, One of my goals this year was to spend more time learning jig/creature technique. I have spent more time this year with jig/creatures than any other year and am learning the effectiveness of what you are talking about. I'm not sure I'm doing things totally correct and someday would love a lesson from the expert....[;)] But so far I agree with your analysis of this being a very effective way to "disect" structure. I've caught a few more fish so far as well that I don't think I would have gotten with more traditional methods. By the way I need to get some more jig heads and creature bodies from you.... Mark www.muskyadventures.com | |||
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| Mr. Sworrall I can see the advantages of your technique and it's precision ,however it would be to time consuming if applied to a large body of water - years if the lake is over 5000 acres + example - Cass ,Vermilion, Leech. On the smaller bodies of water under 3000 acres you will find 'hidden treasure' in a season or two I have done some similar 'probing' using a heavy single bladed spinner bait and jigging it on/over or around structure and finding 'nooks and crannies' I would miss relying on electronics. I have a lot of sucess finding new structures by walleye fishing the lake (musky season not open) and by trolling / down-rigging , it is amazing how much uncharted structure there is . Hit a spot 'mark it' and drive around to find the structures boundries,make-up and any 'spot on spot'locations. Mark my map accordingly then move on.I will at some time return and 'stitch' the strucure,finding more about the spot and maybe catch a fish[:praise:] I just can't get myself to fish 'Ski' with a jig - It feels to much like wally fishin',but don't let my 'esoxjigaphobia' psychosis complex slow you down [;)] Mother | |||
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| Mark, The jig mold is hot, and the lead ready to melt. What size do you need? Mother, I should probably explain that I cast the jig and rip/hop it back to the boat using the reel, in case that wasn't clear. A FULL cast and retrieve takes about 40 seconds or so. The technique is not as time consuming as some might think, and I catch fish while learning the water. [:bigsmile:] [8)] I am NOT 'vertical jigging', that is way to boring for me unless the target is Walleyes on a reef, or a particular little very deep hump needs picking on for a big muskie!![:0] | |||
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| steve, do you know where I can get some of those flatheaded jigs (swimmer jigs) which are very good for shallow waters? I had two of those and lost one. The other one's hook is so weak I could straighten it out without a problem and I wasn't even using pliers. If you know where to get them, maybe email me. Thanks | |||
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| That's easy, I can make them. I have several molds for swimmer and stand up models, will get pics up as soon as I get back to making a few. Mark needs some, so I suspect that will be soon![8)] | |||
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| cool thanks steve! Any particular weight you make? I used 10-14g (a bit under 1/2 oz) head and they stayed at about 2 feet deep or less. I could even bulge them with a double tail twister! | |||
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| Steve, I also questioned the effectiveness of figuring out new water with a creature until this post. Everything you have mentioned makes sense. However I have a few questions for you. Is there a certain head style that is better for a search presentation? Are certain creature bodies better than others? What about a 6000 acre lake? Would you still use a creature to figure this body of water out? This is the situation I am in. The lake is about 6100 acres, and can be basically split in half. One half has mostly shallow flats with lots of weeds, and the other half has tons of breaks into deeper water with various humps. Most of the breaks are shear cliffs that go from about 9ft. to 20ft. Any water shallower than 9 ft contains very dense weed cover. Can the creature still effectively work here? I'm under the impression that it wouldn't. Which half of the lake should I concentrate on given I can only fish it for about 3 hrs. a night? One last note. Is there any way I can get some of your creatures and heads? E-mail me if so. Thanks and good luck on your new water. | |||
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| The situation you describe on the deep edge part of the lake sounds like classic creature water. I would use a 1/3 Diamond Head jig built with a stainless 4/0 Spinnerbait hook to pop the weeds.If the hook flexes at all, alot of the energy generated by the rod is wasted. The trick is to find the very outside edge, and move the boat in and out on the line to track it. If the weed is Milfoil, then go to fireline in 10# test. That will assist you in cutting the stuff, but causes alot of misses if you are immediate on the hookset. If there is mixed vegetation including Cabbage, then concentrate on the cabbage patches as you find them, and concentrate on the deep weeds you can't see, too. I automatically remember the edge the next time through, a process I had a devil of a time figuring out until I finally hit on it. For me, it is like driving a car. On the road, all is well. Off the road, crash and burn. The sonar is the windshield, and my memory banks process the information I have learned from fishing the edge with a jig much the same as finding my way around the roadways. I know when the sonar reading edges uo I am approaching an outside turn, I know pretty much the terrain around it, so I reposition the rig to cover it carefully, sometimes 'coming about' three times in the process. The creature body is not all that critical as to action, just drop speed. I like the Lizard/Reaper combo made from the two lures by losing the lizard tail, and welding the Reaper in it's place.[:bigsmile:] | |||
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