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Location: Latitude 41.3016 Longitude 88.6160 | Not good news, spearing season is now DEC 1 - MARCH 15, preious it was Jan and Feb only. Sad news for Pike and Musky in Michigan. |
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| i would like to know why michigan are 100 years after all the states and provinces?
i really understand why the guys from lsc (can side)are so disgusted of what they to the the lake.strange release,kill tournament,spearing whats next dynamite?
any explanation? |
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Location: Grand Rapids, MI | There is a silver lining though... This change gives direct control to the MI-DNR for rules changes concerning spearing. Which means that if the extended season proves to increase harvest dramatically it can be reduced without going through the legislature. The DNR could also limit the number of fish taken sweasonally or institute a tag system. Fisheries managers actually getting to do their job without the legislature screwing it up... what a concept. Mota - St Clair has a muskellunge spearing ban on it so this change has no impact on that fishery.
Edited by Will Schultz 12/4/2008 11:57 AM
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| I must admit i get a kick out of the guys from Detroit who put up such a fuss about the PMTT wanting to measure undersized fish. Yet they aren't putting up a fuss about "SPEARING" muskies, are you kidding me. Most people who will be out there spearing will have no idea how to judge the length of a fish underwater, therefor they will be spearing fish that are under their so called strict size limit. I guess the question I ask is, If your going to allow spearing for muskies then why have a length limit in place? Obviously your saying that its ok to kill the larger fish. I think I might go out there and help them with there spearing season after the problems that we ran into this year with the PMTT. wow way to go Michigan! |
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Location: Grand Rapids, MI | guest - 12/9/2008 10:42 AM I must admit i get a kick out of the guys from Detroit who put up such a fuss about the PMTT wanting to measure undersized fish. Yet they aren't putting up a fuss about "SPEARING" muskies, are you kidding me. Most people who will be out there spearing will have no idea how to judge the length of a fish underwater, therefor they will be spearing fish that are under their so called strict size limit. I guess the question I ask is, If your going to allow spearing for muskies then why have a length limit in place? Obviously your saying that its ok to kill the larger fish. I think I might go out there and help them with there spearing season after the problems that we ran into this year with the PMTT. wow way to go Michigan! I'm not from Detroit but I believe I can comment on this because I likely know substantially more about this subject than Mr or Mrs "Guest". Spearing doesn't impact the fishery that was in question concerning the PMTT. If there were 1/2 the number of anglers fishing other Michigan water as there are fishing the St Clair system there would be much more support to limit or eliminate muskie spearing. Also understand that spearing is legal in Michigan (though there are some waters where it is banned) and what spearers are doing is legal. However, don't for a second think that spearing (muskellunge spearing) isn't a concern for muskie anglers in Michigan. Please don't insult the anglers of Michigan stating that they aren't putting up a fuss about spearing muskies. There are people that have spent years discussing this subject with the Michigan DNR and who will continue to evaluate the impact spearing has on the fishery. If you want to know more please drop me an e-mail. From my understanding any problems the PMTT ran into had nothing to do with Michigan and it was the OMNR that wouldn't budge on their rules and actually confronted anglers. When I talked with the area DNR supervisor he stated Michigan was willing to work with the PMTT.
Edited by Will Schultz 12/9/2008 3:29 PM
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Posts: 8820
| guest - 12/9/2008 9:42 AM
....Yet they aren't putting up a fuss about "SPEARING" muskies, are you kidding me...
I wonder what sort of response you'll get from Michigan muskie anglers with that statement.
I'm pretty sure they're not out there shaking hands with the spearers and telling them "hey that's great, you go ahead and spear as many muskies as you like. In fact, we'll take extra care in releasing them and put a few extra dollars towards stocking just so you can spear a few more!"
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Posts: 1530
| im on the canadian shore. not to hi-jack a thread. the pmtt statement is the ontario laws are just that. enforced also . as for spearing its been banned here also. hooray for that one. . . mota to answer your questions yes theres changes needed, but on the good points the last studies done 96.5 per cent of muskies are released. thats great news. |
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Posts: 285
Location: NE Wisconsin | What are the studies which show 96.5 percent release? On what waters was this study done? What was the legal size limit on this water? What percentage of muskies caught on this water are of sub legal size and MUST be released? I want to see any study which shows 96.5% of LEGAL SIZE muskies are released, on any water, any where. |
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Posts: 32919
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Creel surveys have shown numbers even higher than that on many waters. |
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| I have always wanted to be a well rounded muskie fisherman...I troll, cast, sucker fish, use all types of lures..love fishing jigs...thought I had really honed my game. I have never speared one though, might just round out my game...Does anyone have any tips on getting the equipment and such to give it a shot..thanks. |
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Posts: 32919
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Ben, you kill me. |
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| woodieb8 - 12/10/2008 6:27 PM
im on the canadian shore. not to hi-jack a thread. the pmtt statement is the ontario laws are just that. enforced also . as for spearing its been banned here also. hooray for that one. . . mota to answer your questions yes theres changes needed, but on the good points the last studies done 96.5 per cent of muskies are released. thats great news.
hey g just one click
not funny.......
http://lapperlures.com/pictures.html
Edited by mota 12/11/2008 4:20 AM
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Posts: 1530
| mota theres a few sites that have fish that are not shown proper release shots and yes theres harvest. to guest theres mnr creel surveys that are implemented bi yearly i believe and release is meant on all muskies caught. many do not realize st clair is an amazing fishery.. as for harvest tournies or tournies that are not immediate release laws are there for protection of all species. as many here on this forum dis-agree with practices by some groups, theres other groups that do lots of hard work in the musky world that help balance and re-enforce, a balance in the populations.. as for spearing in ontario pike spearing is now illegal. in michigan its allowed.. my personal thoughts differ from michigan law. |
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Posts: 1663
Location: Kodiak, AK | esoxaddict - 12/9/2008 5:19 PM
guest - 12/9/2008 9:42 AM
....Yet they aren't putting up a fuss about "SPEARING" muskies, are you kidding me...
I wonder what sort of response you'll get from Michigan muskie anglers with that statement.
I'm pretty sure they're not out there shaking hands with the spearers and telling them "hey that's great, you go ahead and spear as many muskies as you like. In fact, we'll take extra care in releasing them and put a few extra dollars towards stocking just so you can spear a few more!"
No kiddin! |
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Posts: 1106
Location: Muskegon Michigan | For any of you who think Michigan Musky anglers are sitting on our hands well,,, You are wrong. Will Schultz has been the Muskies Inc chapter 47 president since the chapters conception and has led the fight for better regulations in our state. Just getting the legislature out of the picture was a huge step in the right direction. The spearing club(Michigan darkhouse club) is well connected and a formidable Lobby. They used Fred Trost( Practicle sportsman television show) to attack us on Public television with lies and propoganda that painted us as elitest trophy hunters who were pitting release fisherman against the common guy who wanted to feed his family. This fight is real and we are fighting it with zero help from any other states. We attempted to circulate a petition to ban Spearing on the rest of our Stocked lakes only to be attacked by Fred Trost. Rather then continue the petition we withdrew it and have turned to other legal methods to fight this problem. The good news is this, Speared Muskies do not represent a high percentage of harvested Muskies in Michigan. Most spearing is done on Pike . Many of the lower peninsula Muskelunge lakes have spearing bans in place and now with district biologists having the power to set regs we can have science deciding whether or not other bans are in order.
The other good news is stocking has resumed and Michigans over all Musky numbers are rising as is the average size in every lake. Furthurmore be it known that The Michigan Muskie Alliance and the Michigan Ontario Musky club are working together to improve all conditions on the Lake St. Clair and Detroit river systems. To my knowledge there are no more so called kill tournements on the lake. There have been many improvements in release methods including 60 inch airation live wells installed on most every boat that competes on the lake. I have seen the live wells in operation and they are awsome. This alone has saved countless Muskies from dying.
So please no more jabs at us. We are fighting this battle with no help from any of you . we are the minority and under funded and outnumbered. Our state over all has placed Salmon , trout and Walleye above our species as a priority and this has proven to be a huge problem to overcome. But we have made great strides in the stocking numbers and we work (with) our D.N.R. every year even going as far as volunteering at the hatchery when it comes time for stocking. We raised and donated the money this year to purchase airrators for the ponds. This is real work gentlemen. This helped put a lot Muskies into many Michigan lakes this year.
As for Spearing, it amounts to less dead fish than we stock in one 200 acre lake every year so we feel we can out stock and out educate this harvest. If you would like to help our cause send donations to the Michigan Musky Alliance or attend our March Banquet. You can see our efforts at www.michiganmuskiealliance.org .
So know this, We are fighting with everything we have but we need more resources. Michael and Michelle King ( Members Michigan Muskie Alliance ) |
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Posts: 1530
| mr shultz has spent countless hours in the efforts to help maintain a viable fishery along with m.i. on the south shore muskies canada is also involved in the proper methods and education of musky fishing. many folks come and really do enjoy our fishery here in canada. all thats asked is to respect the laws and release your future. im sure theres a few folks that use this forum that can state this. welcome but please respect what we have. |
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| if they really want to save fish why do they put them in a livewell?whit all the best possible release technics,the % of mortality still high so i wonder what happen when they put one in a livewell?how sound pics and release for a tournament? |
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Posts: 1530
| johnnie. theres information on the ontariomnr website on studies. the correct release statistics are near 99 per-cent on logs handed in from surveys. i do know michigan also has been doing creel surveys, and due to strong efforts the numbers are very hi. so in closing all musky nuts around are doing a good job. we just need to keep it up in a positive manner.
tight lines and merry christmas. |
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Location: Kodiak, AK | Kingfisher - 12/11/2008 10:48 AM
For any of you who think Michigan Musky anglers are sitting on our hands well,,, You are wrong.....So know this, We are fighting with everything we have but we need more resources. Michael and Michelle King ( Members Michigan Muskie Alliance )
Awesome, awesome, awesome, awesome post! 
Here's a bit of what Will orchestrated this past summer. He got up with me to get these signs hung up at the boat launches. I met him on the lake, and you can tell the dude gives a #*^@, and it's cool to see.
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Posts: 1530
| yes we have those signs put up on the canadian shores also. plus mci yearly has done instructional seminars to youth on live release and many other things for our future muskynuts. |
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Posts: 717
Location: Grand Rapids, MI | esoxfly - 12/12/2008 1:27 AM
Kingfisher - 12/11/2008 10:48 AM
For any of you who think Michigan Musky anglers are sitting on our hands well,,, You are wrong.....So know this, We are fighting with everything we have but we need more resources. Michael and Michelle King ( Members Michigan Muskie Alliance )
Awesome, awesome, awesome, awesome post!
Here's a bit of what Will orchestrated this past summer. He got up with me to get these signs hung up at the boat launches. I met him on the lake, and you can tell the dude gives a #*^@, and it's cool to see.
Amen! Nice post, Mike. I think we (Michigan Muskie Alliance) all give a #*^@! That is precisely why we joined this group and are constantly trying to make muskie fishing better! |
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| What is all the fuss with the spearing of pike & or Muskie? Have any of you seen the catch and release statistics on how many fish die from being hooked and handled? Statistics aside, the bag limit is the same for hook and line fisherman as it is for spearfisherman. So should we just eliminate a bag limit all together and have catch and release only?
For that matter, hook and line fishing is way more devistating on both fish populations. With a hook and line i can fish in many different spots increasing my odds of hooking, handling and hurting both legal and short fish. With spearing you are sitting over one hole and if a short fish comes in it swims away undisturbed.
Stop whinning and go fishen! |
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Posts: 342
Location: Passaic, NJ - Upper French River, ON | " I want to see any study which shows 96.5% of LEGAL SIZE muskies are released, on any water, any where. "
Here it is -
Steven Kerr author of " Characteristics of Ontario Muskellunge Fisheries based on Volunteer Angler Diary Information."
".......Release rates among dedicated Muskellunge anglers have increased over the past twenty six years to the point where almost all fish caught are subsequently released." |
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Posts: 2384
Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | Pike Boy, the amount of fish that die due to delayed mortality is greatly overstated...especially from the dark house guys.
For example, Lake Minnetonka is managed by the DNR for roughly 1250-1300 adult muskies. I personally know of over 1000 fish caught between around 25-30 boats. That means that in just a small group of fishermen roughly every fish had been caught and released in one season. Now figure that Tonka get's around 100+ boat a week in muskie fishing traffic. Just doing the rough numbers I figure that each fish is caught and released roughly 2-4 times a SEASON in the twin cities metro area. So I argue the point that anglers are doing more damage to the fishery then dark house guys can. We're recycling the fish on the magnitude of 10-30x throughout it's life, when you drop the harpoon the fish is done and doesn't have a chance to be enjoyed by another angler. Add into it musky anglers spend tens of thousands of dollars on top of their catch and release ethic to further improve the fishery. I've yet to see any dark house organization spend a red cent on the fishery. |
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| Think about this. Want to increase the muskie population? Stop hook and line fishing for muskie and have a spearing only season on them. The muskie populations would soar. Simply because thier are way more fish getting caught with a hook than hit with a spear.
I do both. Catch and release muskie with hook and line, and I also spear pike and muskie. I have no doubt that a ton of muskie are caught and released maybe even close to 97%.
As we all know muskie are very very delecate fish. On Lake St. Clair here in MI it is not uncommon to see guys get in the water and swim with the muskie in an effort to get a good release. i had seen a study not to long ago about the statistics of die off of fish that are released. The die off rate from hooking and handling was somthing like 62%. I will try to find the study online and post a link.
I can't understand how certin Muskie groups think they are entitled to rant and rave about spearfisherman or anglers that keep what they catch. I understand that these groups spend a lot of time & money for the Muskie, but that is their porgative. That doesn't mean the muskie are "their fish" and anyone who don't practice the same methods are in the wrong. I say if these muskie groups are so into "saving" the muskies they start using barbless hooks.
I would bet hundreds if not thousands more muskies die every year from being caught and relesed. Far more die from hook and line that from spearfisherman. Do the math....how many hook and line anglers are there VS how many spearfisherman their are. (keep in mind there are only a handful of states that allow spearing.)
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| Checked out Lake Minnetonka online. That is a pretty big lake. How do they keep track of the 1250-1300 muskie? Are they all taged? Does everyone report their tagged catches to the DNR? Their are a ton of inlets and outlets on that lake too that link to more that 10 other lakes. Do you think the muskie stay in lake Minnetonka only? Are their dams preventing them from getting to all those other lakes?
Don't get me wrong, I am not knocking catch and release i practice it too if I am not going to eat the fish.
As far a pumping money into the fishery. I beleive in MN the "darkhouse guys" have to have a fishing liscense as well as a darkhouse liscense. Not to mention what the darkhouse industry does for the state of MN in terms of $$ for the economy.
I guess the only good way to get to the bottom of this is to catch a muskie and ask him how he feels about the situation. |
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| gimo, you state "release rates amoung dedicated musky anglers..."
The key here is "dedicated musky anglers" if any of you people think for a minute that musky release rates are that high you are fooling yourselves. We still have catch and keep guides in Vilas and Oneida Co. I posted this earlier this year. I saw first hand 4 dead muskies from opening weekend 2008. Nodody hears of these fish cause the people that catch them aren't musky fisherman. All four of these fish were between 34 and 39 inches.
Dedicated musky anglers do release almost all of their fish. "Anything that bites" fisherman do not.
John |
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Posts: 221
Location: Detroint Lakes, MN |
Pike Boy;
There has never been a credible study done that indicates a delayed mortality any where near a rate of 62%. You're arguing with facts that don't exist.
You want to talk about improving a fishery? In MN lakes where spearing doesn't happen anymore due to slot limits on pike, the avg. size has over doubled in 15 years on several lakes.
In lakes where catching a 40" pike was unheard of in the past it is becommning rather common.
Pike are still being caught by anglers, and released. The difference is that big fish are being protected. There is no protection from the spear, and big fish are singled out and killed. You can't do that angling.
So if you want to argue about fishery impact, you need to do some more research.
JS
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