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Posts: 366
| They say there are no stupid questions, well how about stupid polls? Hypothetical question and doesn't have much bearing in the real world, but if you had to make a choice? Would you rather....? |
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Posts: 5874
| I'd vote either way would work for me. But it's not an option. I won't say it's a waste of time reading this, so it's a no vote for me.
But if I was to catch a 60 pounder, it's probably happen while trolling.
Edited by Shep 12/11/2008 7:50 AM
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Posts: 2865
Location: Brookfield, WI | Using the 66% rule, a 60 lb. fish caught trolling is really only about a 40 lb. fish caught casting, due to the differences in skill levels required for each type of fishing. A fish's weight also must be discounted if the angler catches it while fishing with a guide as opposed to locating and landing a fish on his/her own. I believe that formula is about the same. Non-guided sucker caught fish are figured at about 80% of the weight of a fish caught and landed casting. They are higher than trolling because the angler must position the bait himself and they require a hook set.
If you catch a fish trolling while being guided, the formula is (weight x 50%) as you didn't really do much to earn the fish. A guided sucker caught fish is (weight x 70%) as at least the angler set the hook, though he did not position the bait himself.
It's a lot of math, I know, but every musky fisherman should really grasp these concepts so any fish they catch is properly placed within its proper "quality of catch" category. The fish I have caught average 55% of their true weight due to the manner in which they were caught.
The answer to your poll question has to be casting without the benefit of being guided. That is if an angler wants a 60 lb. fish to be legitimate. A harsh reality, I know, but there is no way to get around the math and science.
Kevin
A New Plan |
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Location: Lake Tomahawk, WI | Well said Kevin. This is one of the main reasons I explain to potential clients that we will be trolling (this is how I fish), so their fish will be worth far less in the grand scheme of things compared to if they were caught casting. Most are ok with this, yet I always make sure to get it out beforehand.
;
JS |
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Posts: 2865
Location: Brookfield, WI | J.Sloan - 12/11/2008 9:44 AM
Well said Kevin. This is one of the main reasons I explain to potential clients that we will be trolling (this is how I fish), so their fish will be worth far less in the grand scheme of things compared to if they were caught casting. Most are ok with this, yet I always make sure to get it out beforehand.
;
JS
Since you're rowing, they get a 5% bump. If they row while you sit and encourage them, any fish caught counts at 95% of its total weight. I forgot to mention the special circumstances entailed with row trolling. My mistake.
Kevin
A paltry 55%. |
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Posts: 2361
| Hopeful, don't give these guys a halfa$$ed version of the real rules of how much your musky counts. You have forgotten to mention the Lake Webster Divisor, which means every Webster fish is multiplied by 1/3 if you have caught less than 20 muskies over 30", but more than 20, hey buddy, you have to multiply those Webster fish by 1/6. Yes it takes 6 Webster fish to equal 1 free ranging northern musky. We had to come up with something since after due consideration, many of us have come to the conclusion that the Webster fish are actually raised in confinement, after all, a barrel is a barrel, regardless of the size. |
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Location: Medford, WI | Haha....I'm going to school to become a math teacher and I believe you've even got me on these equations.
I love it...and to be honest, it somewhat makes sense to me. Not so much the weight of the fish, but the feeling of catching a fish on a lake you are trying to learn by yourself is much better than catching a fish with a guide on any lake, to me anyways. Either way, catching fish is awesome anyway you look at it. Not taking anything away from guides at all, I think the majority of them are probably great people and you could learn a tremendous amount from them. I plan on getting my feet wet in guiding in the future when I get a boat that is suitable for 3+ fishermen.
Back to the poll question, I would much rather catch a 60-lb.'er casting...can you imagine that hit!!!? Of course it would probably just swallow the entire bait while swimming towards you.
However, put the question a different way "HOOK a 60-lb musky casting or trolling", I might change my mind. Not sure if it's true or not, but I've always thought hooking up while trolling gives you a better chance of netting the fish than casting (this being said with limited time trolling). Horse-a-piece.
-Jake Bucki |
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Posts: 956
Location: Home of the 2016 World Series Champion Cubs | Mr Hat (South Park) says, "There are no such things as stupid questions. Just stupid people"
Come on, are you that bored already? Gonna be a long winter.......... |
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Posts: 968
Location: N.FIB | after reading that,it must take ten wingra fish to equal one,VERY LONG WINTER |
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Posts: 89
| A big fish is a big fish no matter how you look at it. No one should judge someone on how a fish was caught or who they caught it with. Tolling is not necessarily an "easier" method, anyone who spends a lot of time doing it right, is very skilled in boat control, and controlling multiple lines.
In any method a lot of what determines how a big fish is caught comes down to luck. Now if someone consistently catches big fish that is skill, but a single big fish 60 inches or 60 lbs. that's a lot of luck, right place right time. We as musky fishermen need to band together a bit more and not look down on others for their chosen method of fishing. I personally do both, I believe there is a time and place for all methods. There is no reason to be a purist and say that one method is the only way to catch muskys.
Just Fish! |
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Location: Kronenwetter, WI | I agree with Brett---I spent some time trolling this year...actually learned how to do it from Brett....It's no recipe for instant musky as some seem to believe....
Anyhow, I was over to Thorne Bros. this summer and was shocked at the degree to which a certain employee there denounced trolling. He quite passionatly expressed a dislike for trolling as well as trollers....I was kind of like, "whoa, dude...relax...you ARE selling me a pair of TDS's with custom tips...whassup with that?" |
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Posts: 433
Location: Cedarburg, Wisconsin | Hypothetically, I had to take the 60#er trolling because you didn't say what the 60"er weighed. You could have a 60"er that weighs less than 40# if she's on her last fins. Now, if they were identical weights, then I'd rather have the fish casting and hopefully on a figure eight where the fish comes out from under the boat and you never see it following. That would be an instant heart attack if ever there was one.
Considering that 99.9999% of us will never see or catch a real fish this size, it really doesn't matter much, does it? When we go musky fishing it is about getting the biggest possible fish, not whether we caught one on a dry fly using a 4x tippet and a split bamboo rod verses one on a cane pole wedged into a pile of rocks with a minnow under a beachball sized bobber. Caught is caught, and big is big. |
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Location: Twin Cities | Cowboyhannah - 12/11/2008 11:26 AM
Anyhow, I was over to Thorne Bros. this summer and was shocked at the degree to which a certain employee there denounced trolling. He quite passionatly expressed a dislike for trolling as well as trollers....I was kind of like, "whoa, dude...relax...you ARE selling me a pair of TDS's with custom tips...whassup with that?"
That is kinda surprising. I've spent time talking to several employee's there in depth about trolling. |
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Posts: 929
Location: Rhinelander. | WHAT!!!!!!! A60lb fish is a 60lb fish in my book regardless of how caught or guided or not guided. I am wondering if I need to reread that as I must have missed something. |
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| 60 in casting. for two reasons. one all i ever do is cast. i've never even tried trolling before. two, one of the best parts is seeing a fish hit the bait and it would be alot harder to see that happen if trolling. i love seeing a fish crush one of my baits! especially a big one! |
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Location: Des Moines IA | 60 pounds is 60 pounds. It's difficult to consume as much beer casting as it is trolling as well  |
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Location: Brookfield, WI | MuskieMike - 12/13/2008 9:28 AM
60 pounds is 60 pounds. It's difficult to consume as much beer casting as it is trolling as well :)
Good point, Mike, about beer consumption. The "quality of catch" ratio while trolling is directly proportional to the percentage applied to the "true weight" of any fish caught trolling. 0 to 8 beers and the 66% ratio referenced in my first post applies. 8-16 beers and the ratio increases to 75% as landing a fish at that consumption level becomes significantly more difficult for obvious reasons. 17-24 beers and the ratio increases to 90% as the angler will most likely have to remain seated while fighting the fish, making the eventual landing unlikely. That's the highest ratio obtainable, because, after all, it is still trolling. Drinking more than 24 beers during one outing on the water becomes a serious safety issue for the angler as well as the fish, and should be discouraged.
Similar beer consumption percentage increases apply to sucker caught fish and fish caught guided, though most professional guides frown on that level of beer intake due to liability issues.
Kevin
Maybe my "quality of catch" ratio is higher? |
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Location: Des Moines IA | Kevin, how does the "Kesslers" effect the ratio then? |
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Location: Brookfield, WI | MuskieMike - 12/13/2008 10:37 AM
Kevin, how does the "Kesslers" effect the ratio then?
All the rules go right out the window.
Kevin
55% to 66%. |
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Posts: 956
Location: Home of the 2016 World Series Champion Cubs | I have to laugh every time i see Muskie fishing and kesslers associated in the same topic. My last trip to Wabigoon and one of our team opens up his suit case to find his one, his only, his dear bottle of kesslers had not been sealed properly and had emptied completely out into the clothes he was to wear during the trip. every day taunted by the smell of kesslers (on his clothes) rich and smooth every where he went but not a drop to drink. I dont know if if;'ve ever seen torture like this. Yes I have seen a grown man cry.
Karl |
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| If trolling is that much easier and productive I must be doing it wrong. I have put a ton of miles on trolling and have caught very few muskies doing it compared to casting. Although, out of the couple that I have caught trolling one was an real giant and PB. Definatley isn't a crap shoot by any means. |
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Posts: 578
Location: deephaven mn | ha ha ha ha one of the best threads ever. love the deductions.
60 something will be just fine |
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| it look like some guys think trolling=instant trophy |
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Posts: 34
| I troll from a one-man canoe, and it's my favorite way to catch a muskie because it's a real pain to troll that way |
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Posts: 74
Location: thunder bay | i'd take a 60 pounder anyway, a fish is a fish in my book, you went out there, you spent the time on the water yeah casting is more fun, your still working for it when trolling |
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Posts: 3910
| I think that there is a 80% chance that Hopeful's 66% rule is not credible.
So, to misuse probability thoery, ...80% times 66% is 53%.
This means that I have a 53% chance of, um, well, hold on a second.......
nevermind
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Location: Warroad, Mn | Either would be O.K. Doug Johnson |
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