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Posts: 11
Location: St. Cloud, Mn | Ok guys, I believe this is fairly new technology. Who has a spiral wrapped rod (guides) out there? Supposedly offers further casting distance and less friction on the line. For those who have one of these rods is there anything you don't like about it?
Thanks.
Edited by Tippman 4/28/2008 8:18 PM
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Posts: 457
| By no means is it a new technology, its been in and out of style over the past thirty years or so.
Here's another thread on the subject, including my response:
http://muskie.outdoorsfirst.com/board/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=41... |
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Posts: 11
Location: St. Cloud, Mn | Thanks, did a search and missed that thread. |
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Posts: 1270
| Spiral wrapped rods seem to re-appear every 5 or 6 years. The makers of them, usually some little guy trying to make a name for themself, claim that they cast farther, are more accurate, and fight the fish better than a conventional wrapped rod. The funny thing is that they have never caught on and you know how fishermen are, if they would work better everybody would be using them. It's just a fad, wait a year and it will be over again! |
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| If you do not know how to find the spine on the rod, then the spiral wrap can be more effective. In order to get the spiral wrap you have to get it custom built and any custom rod builder is going to know how to find the spine on the rod, rendering the spriral wrap pointless. Unless of course you want something different. |
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Posts: 1
| I am a professional custom rod builder have explored and use this technique exclusively on all of my casting rods for some time now. There is no practical reason not to use the wrap other than the time it takes to properly set up the rod.
The spiral wrap technique is about 100 years old. It was developed by a catfisherman in Kansas City. He believed and correctly so, that a rod should be stable when fighting a big fish. After a lot of trial and error he came about the technique properly called the Roberts Wrap. His technique has morphed over the years and now carries several names, such as spiral wrap, acid wrap, revolver and several others. The posts above are correct to a point in that the wrap will give greater casting distance, better casting accuracy and most importantly stability in fighting a fish.
The reason that the manufactures have not adapted to this wrapping technique is that the geometry and physics required to set up the rod blank is too costly for a manufacturing operation. Time is money, and money is profit. Rod manufacturers build rods for the "average" fisherman. These companies have a profit motive and the "average" consumer does not understand the benefits of the wrap. There has been an attempt by a couple of rod manufactures to introduce the wrap, however, sportshop salespeople did not grasp the benefits either. Without proper explanation, buyers believe the rod is defective!
Even custom builders have difficulty understanding the technique. If the rod is not properly set up in the beginning of the wrapping process on the spine, the technique will not produce the ultimate desired result, and in fact the rod could fail under maximum load. Friction is removed from the guides to the maximum extent possible thus greater casting distance. It is a straight line from the reel to the tip top in a loaded condition, thus greater accuracy. The rod actually is turned into a spinning rod so the line "hangs" on the guides and never can touch the blank. Finally, the rod's "lock-in point" is found on the predominate spine of the rod and creates the stability desired for fighting big fish. With a properly balanced outfit to the reel and rod, fighting big fish is a joy, and untiring.
So the bottom line question remains... is spiral wrapped rods for everyone. Possibly not. But the benefits of the wrap certainly outweigh the negatives... if the rod is set up properly to begin with.
Kris Kristufek
LakeLady Custom Rods
Breezy Point, MN |
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Posts: 3518
Location: north central wisconsin | I am with Kris. The positives have been obvious to me after using the custom spiral wrapped rig that Ryan Jinkerson did for me. The biggest drawback is public perception. If spiral wraps were widely used on Musky gear 60 years ago, they'd by and large, still be used today. People are not comfortable with the 'look', they don't understand the concept or see the need for change(which is fine), and so they say it isn't a viable set-up. Using spinning gear all winter and spring, then switching to casting gear with the awkwardly placed guides on top of the rod for the summer, has allowed me to realize the benefits of a spiral wrap, and what they offer in comfort of fighting a fish(removing stress and awkward rod loading), along with great castability. I plan to alter the other rods in my arsenal in the coming months, that either have guides poorly spined, or that I feel just need a new 'look'. Later!!
Edited by Reef Hawg 4/29/2008 9:21 AM
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Posts: 324
Location: Bloomington, Illinois | I have 3 spiral wrapped rods made my a guy in California...I do really like them...Here is a link from his website that explains the science behind the spiral/acid wrap. http://www.kzreelrods.com/art_science.html#Science (you will need to scroll down a little) Look at the pictures of his rods...They are awesome...Here are a couple he did for me:
http://www.kzreelrods.com/images/Rod_Photos/MattSterrettSC4CollageW...
http://www.kzreelrods.com/images/Rod_Photos/3M80HFCollageWeb.jpg
matt
Edited by muskyme 4/29/2008 9:33 AM
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Location: Wisconsin | Those would be awesome trolling rods..... |
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Posts: 457
| I guess, if they work for you, fine, but the studies that I've seen done state they are actually more a hindrance to casting distance and power in fighting fish. I've use them previously, and have found them to be subpar, and certainly not comfortable. I well understand the concept, but disagree that it is of any benefit in application based on use, and research from impartial sources. |
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Posts: 1756
Location: Mt. Zion, IL | I have a custom rod from Bud Erhardt that is wrapped with the spiral pattern and I wish I could find more locally. I do not find the rods to be "subpar" but that may be due to the fact that he uses high quality blanks and has been doing it for over 25 years. The rod I have does not cast any further than any other rod I own of the same length so it does not hinder distance. I can honestly say when fighting big fish the rod performs better IMO than a standard guide setup since the line often touches the blank on other rods. This causes the rod to "buckle" and rotate back and forth which has snapped a few of my friends' rods, but not mine. I feel that the design in superior in certain aspects and agree that public perception is hindering the advancement of many companies to a design using spiral wrap designs. Whoolligan, I have to say I completely disagree with your research. I am not saying you are wrong, but I disagree. |
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Posts: 1270
| Rod manufactures could easily set up there stuff to make these without much of a problem and if it took more time they would just charge more. Weather it's perception or reality they just don't sell very good. I had one trolling rod, for salmon, with a spiral wrap and when a fish hit it nobody wanted to grab the rod because it felt so goofy holding and fightning the fish with it. |
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Posts: 324
Location: Bloomington, Illinois | I also have to disagree with the "sub-par" assessment...I have one built on a St IV blank and two on the avid blank...They are balanced, cast easily and do well while fighting a fish. To be honest, I don't feel any difference between these rods and my custom diamondback built by Thornes. Nothing "goofy" about how they feel. I suppose it is like many other things, a matter of personal preference. I find it interesting though that people slam them when they have never had a quality built one in their hands.  As someone has recently said on TV "Different doesn't mean deficient...its just different." LOL Not my favorite person to quote...but seems to fit here.
Edited by muskyme 4/29/2008 3:07 PM
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Posts: 8855
| So let's say it IS superior for fighting a fish. On your best day EVER you probably spent a total of 10 minutes fighting muskies. Spiral guide placement might be great for saltwater fishing (the only place I've ever seen it), but for muskie fishing it's probably a waste of time and money.
I believe the reason it hasn't caught on has much more to do with the time and effort it takes to do it, which makes it impossible for most mass produced rods. It's probably not even feasible for commercial rod builders to spine their rods, let alone having different guide placement for every blank.
Besides -- Joe fisherman doesn't care about guide placement, spine location, spiral wraps etc. Joe fisherman probably cares about the price tag first, the (perceived) brand quality second, and how cool looking it is third.
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Posts: 324
Location: Bloomington, Illinois | esoxaddict - 4/29/2008 3:28 PM
So let's say it IS superior for fighting a fish. On your best day EVER you probably spent a total of 10 minutes fighting muskies. Spiral guide placement might be great for saltwater fishing (the only place I've ever seen it), but for muskie fishing it's probably a waste of time and money.
I believe the reason it hasn't caught on has much more to do with the time and effort it takes to do it, which makes it impossible for most mass produced rods. It's probably not even feasible for commercial rod builders to spine their rods, let alone having different guide placement for every blank.
Besides -- Joe fisherman doesn't care about guide placement, spine location, spiral wraps etc. Joe fisherman probably cares about the price tag first, the (perceived) brand quality second, and how cool looking it is third.
You are right on here...The guy who did mine does alot of saltwater rods...However, if you are looking for a custom rod, he is very competitive with Thornes...He will give you the choice of any blanks, seats, guides, handles ect. that are available...Lots of choices.
Edited by muskyme 4/29/2008 4:08 PM
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Posts: 3518
Location: north central wisconsin | Actually, in reality, it was the opposite of a hinderance in my unbiased assessment when using them. I was a skeptic from the get go, as I am also old school, never having seen the set-up, let alone used them. When I had Ryan make the first one for me(contrary to what some say, it doesn't cost any more to spiral wrap a rod than it does to line them up on top), I was still skeptical, that was until I used it for fishing. I am not a promotor of the things, could care less if others use or like them. Just stating a fact, that it is not a 'sub-par' method of placing guides, in fact the opposite.
As far as the feel, EA nailed it. Very little time spend fighting fish. However, when I am, I want my rod to work with me, not against me as many of my top placed guided jobs do. Fighting a fish on a spinning outfit is always more comfortable than casting gear. They are designed with that purpose in mind. Spiral wraps, allow for the 'feel'. As far as casting goes, those that noticed an obvious loss of casting distance, must have had a bum set-up, as there should be no discernable difference either way in regards to casting distance, though I'd err towards saying the spiral wraps cause a bit less friction overall when casting.
Again, no real reason for anyone to go and make the big switch over to the design, but no reason not to use or accept them either. |
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Posts: 2024
| Jason,
Do you have pics of your customs? |
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