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Posts: 1316
Location: Lebanon,Mo | Since i have been building a new house the last seven months,i havent been able to get on the water as much.Now my boat has been sitting in storage for five months with no Sta-Bil in it,and on top of that i accidently put 87nle in it and im thinking there is water and gumming in the carbs.I pulled it out of storage,put the ear muffs on and run like crap.Would not idle,would cut out at higher rpm's.It would start if you pumped the throttle,but not for long.This is the first time this has happened to me.Im dealing with a '08 yam 40hp 4-stroke with only 12hrs.It went to the shop today.So did i goof with the lack of stabilizer and the accidental 87 octane w/ethanol???.......Fred.
P.S. I even changed the plugs yesterday and would idle fine for about 10 seconds and then was back to cutting out.I also forgot to mention i sprayed some fogger in the plug holes and the air box in October thinking this would help while it sit.
Edited by missourimuskyhunter 3/10/2008 12:06 PM
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Location: The Yahara Chain | You should never put ethanol in your tank when you are going to store it. The water separates out. You will need to get all of the fuel drained out of your tank and you should be fine. Stabil will not stop ethanol gas from doing this. |
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| So is 87 octane with "up to 10% ethanol" or whatever they say bad?
What does everyone use for gas on their expensive motors here at M1st? Premium or 87 and do you look for stations without the ethanol added (if even available)? |
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Posts: 4080
Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion |
Use 92+ octane fuel with NO, NO ethanol
Get rid of that fuel and start over with good stuff, also add Seafoam to clean your inner engine parts.
Always use the best fuel and oil and additives you can buy for a long lived,good running engine.
Jerome |
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Posts: 2427
Location: Ft. Wayne Indiana | Suzuki recommends that you use 87 octane gas and DO NOT PUT IN THE HIGH OCTANE GAS. I run 87 in my boat everyday all day. The high octane gas isn't good for some motors, such as the Suzuki 4 strokes. Read your owners manual and it will tell you what octane to run in your boat. |
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| i highly doubt the cause of your troubles is the little bit of ethanol in the gas you put in your tank.... my 2 rubles
as Mike said, some motors do not run well on high octane gas, whatever the manufacturer says follow that... |
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Posts: 3511
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | If the motor was never stored properly, it would not matter if it was ethanol blend or not...it's gummed up. It would happen with ethanol free.
The thing with ethanol is is attracts water...therefore, if there is water in the gas it can do a few things to a motor when it sits for a length of time...rust being the primary issue. With that short of time, though, I would doubt rust would be an issue...
The carbs will get a rebuild, and whatever you do, get rid of the gas you have and start fresh. Probably wouldn't hurt to run some sea-foam or power tune through the engine as well to clean out any gunk that might be on cylinder walls, etc.
Steve |
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Location: The Yahara Chain | From Boats.com
So why are we having trouble with E-10 fuel today?
"Ethanol is a fabulous solvent," said Don Schultz, who retired from Mercury Marine in 2001 after serving 14 years as that company's leading expert of fuels and lubricants and today is an independent consultant to the marine industry. "So it's going to dissolve accumulated deposits in the fuel-supply system, and those could end up in a fuel filter or elsewhere in the fuel system if they get past the filter. Ethanol also loves water, it just sucks up moisture. This is not a big problem in the sealed fuel system of a modern car, but most boats have an open-vented fuel tank that breaths and introduces humid air to the fuel tank. This can create the formation of strong organic acids as water combines with ethanol and other elements in the fuel, forming sludge and corrosive compounds."
Here is an explanation of phase separation.
NEWS From BoatU.S.
Boat Owners Association of The United States
880 S. Pickett St., Alexandria, VA 22304
BoatU.S. News Room at http://www.BoatUS.com/news/releases.asp
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Press Contact: Scott Croft, 703-461-2864, [email protected]
Date: October 23, 2006
WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT E-10 ETHANOL FUEL AND WINTER BOAT LAYUP
This spring and with little prior notice, recreational boaters in most parts of the country were introduced to gasoline containing higher concentrations of ethanol, a corn-based additive that replaced a known carcinogen, MTBE. The new fuel, dubbed "E-10" for its 10% ethanol content, unfortunately has the ability to attract greater amounts of water and "phase separate", or form two separate solutions in the gas tank, usually over a long period of time. Once this happens, the engine won't run and internal damage could occur. With the lengthy winter lay up period upon us, many boaters are asking how they should store their boat over the winter to prevent fuel problems next year. The BoatU.S. damage prevention newsletter, Seaworthy, tackles the problem in its October issue and has these recommendations:
• Once phase separation occurs in E-10 gasoline, additives and water separators can't help. The only remedy is to have the gas and ethanol/water professionally removed from the tank.
• With any fuel that sits in a tank for a long time, it's important to add a stabilizer. But understand that stabilizers do not prevent phase separation.
• E-10 has been a fact of life in certain areas of the Midwest for over a decade and there have been relatively few problems. The best practical recommendation learned from marina operators in the region is to top off a boat's fuel tanks to about 95% full, leaving room for expansion. A tank that is almost full limits the flow of air into and out of the vent, which reduces the chance of condensation adding water to the fuel. Draining fuel tanks of E-10 gas, while completely eliminating any chances of phase separation, is potentially dangerous and an impractical solution.
• Whether you believe your boat's fuel tanks are half full or half empty, leaving a tank partially filled is a bad move. A Midwest marina owner confirmed that phase separation problems typically occurred when boats were stored over the winter with tanks only one quarter to one-half full. In the summer, infrequently used boats with partially filled tanks are also prone to phase separation.
• Never try to plug up a fuel tank vent to prevent moist air from entering a tank. Without room to expand, the additional pressure could rupture fuel system components. |
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Posts: 2089
| This summer I was told by the Evinrude Rep to NEVER use premium. The rationale was that because it's more expensive, it tends to sit longer and all the "additives" seperate and it then is counter productive. Steve |
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Posts: 427
Location: Roseau | I stored the boat with a 1/2 tank of 87 in early november in my unheated garage. It Has stabil in and have always run sea foam. Will it be ok? I have also heard that with the plastic gas tanks there is alot less of a need to fill the tank before storing?
Thanks |
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| Fisher,
you should be just fine if you run sea foam at all times.
(what I have heard...) with the plastic tanks is that they are less apt to get condensed water on the inside of the tank (I'd guess due to insulating properties of plastic as compared to aluminum or steel), but I think it might have more to do with condensation on steel tanks forming rust anywhere gas is not...
Steve |
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| Drain your gas, put in new gas mixed with seafoam (1 can to 10 gallons or so) and run the engine. You'll be fine.
Next time put seaform (1 can to 20 gallons is appropriate if you're not trying to clean things out) in your last tank of gas before you let it sit and fog the cylinders. Change the lower unit oil along with that and you'll be good to go for the winter.
Seafoam is a stabilizer and a cleaner. It's magic stuff for sure. |
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Posts: 358
Location: London, England | If it runs OK with you pumping the bulb I bet the fuel line's got a hole in it and there's nothing more wrong with it. Try a new fuel line and see if it runs properly then. |
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Posts: 572
| If you are buying unleaded gas in Missouri, you don't know whether the gas has E-10 or not. (well, maybe Casey's) Starting this last Jan, all stations were to convert their unleaded (87 octane) pumps for E-10. I've heard not all stations have converted. Not only that, but the stations may switch back and forth between with E-10 and without E-10. In addition, the stations are not required to label the pumps that contain E-10. Basically, you don't know what unleaded (87 octane) gas you're buying.
Although I'm not sure, I've heard other states may have E-10 gas that is not posted on their pumps.
Since mixing gas with E-10 and gas without E-10 is suppose to be a NO-NO (even for cars and trucks), I plan to run my tanks close to empty before buying more gas when I travel. With high gas prices it's fairly easy for me to be close to empty.....including money. |
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| "If it runs OK with you pumping the bulb I bet the fuel line's got a hole in it and there's nothing more wrong with it. Try a new fuel line and see if it runs properly then."
That could also indicate a gummed up or bad fuel pump if the fuel line checks out. |
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Posts: 1316
Location: Lebanon,Mo | Got my rig back yesterday.They changed the 10micron filter,plugs,and found the idle jets clogged with junk.They told me no water was found,but im not for sure since i didnt inspect myself.Was not a cheap bill if i could of prevented it.
The question about Missouri having ethanol in 87oct was required the first of '08 that all stations must carry it.You cant even load 87oct at the pipeline without ethanol in it now.91oct is still free from ethanol at choice.All of the resorts/boat rentals we fuel now are staying with the 91.
Thanks for the reply's!!!! |
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