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Posts: 113
| I had a bad experience with a flourocarbon leader last year, just wondering if it was a fluke or what, but I am curious about what leaders everyone else is using. I hear alot of good things about Stealth leaders, but I am a little shy to flourocarbon.............. |
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| Go with Stealth |
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Posts: 1243
Location: Musky Tackle Online, MN | Stealth Leaders are the best fluoro leader out there, period. Anything can fail whether it's wire, fluoro or even your super braid. But take care of your terminal tackle and inspect it and you should be fine. I have yet to hear of a failure with the Stealth leaders and they have received a lot of heavy use in the last year or two. From the fluoro to the swivels to the snaps, Stealth leaders are top notch all the way.
Aaron |
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Posts: 2893
Location: Yahara River Chain | Hi Will,
If you want to go with a quality wire leader try GS Specialties leaders. Made to military specs. The snaps & swivels fail before the crimps and wire. AND they last a long time. I caught 4 on mine, plus both Frank Walsh & Doug Johnson used them and have caught over 50 muskies on one leader. As far as I know the only place you can get them is Dorn's in Madison, but Gene Seuring is trying to get into Thorne Bros as well.
Gerard
Edited by muskie! nut 2/27/2007 6:55 AM
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Posts: 502
Location: Lincoln UK | Flouro will be bitten through sooner or later, those that use it will defend it but they will get bitten of eventually. Musky/pike are not leader shy so why run the risk, wire everytime for me. I have never been bitten off and have never left a rig/bait in a fish. |
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Posts: 1243
Location: Musky Tackle Online, MN | I do not have a ton of experience using fluoro leaders. So although I have never had a failure, I base my opinions on what I have heard from other anglers more than anything. I know of quite a number of people that have put literally hundreds of muskies in the boat on fluoro leaders without a single failure. The experience level of these anglers, their success with fluoro leaders, the fact that they have not had any failures, and the fact that they are absolutely convinced that fluoro leaders put more fish in the boat has made me a believer. And it will result in me using Stealth Tackle’s leaders much more in 2007.
At the musky shows this winter it has been a real eye opener how many of the guides that are on the water more than anyone are using fluoro leaders for the majority of their fishing. There must be a reason.
Will fluoro leaders ever fail? Sure they will. Will wire leaders fail? Absolutely. Will fluoro be more likely to fail? Maybe, maybe not. Most of the failures I’ve heard about have been from people using 80# or less fluoro. My suggestion would be to use a minimum of 100# test and inspect your leaders often for any abrasions. If it has any, change the leader.
Let’s assume that fluoro is more likely to fail than a wire leader. Not saying that it is, as I don’t believe there’s any proof of that. But let’s say that out of 300 fish, you have one fish bite you off. What if using fluoro leaders caused you to put 50 of those fish in the boat that you wouldn’t have otherwise caught. Was the risk/rewards worth it? If you believe that there’s more of a risk to use fluoro, that’s what you have to ask yourself. I used to think there was a risk. I don’t feel that way anymore. Quality fluoro leaders like Stealth’s have convinced me that it’s just not warranted anymore. Bump up the pound test, use quality components, make sure the leader is tied and/or crimped by someone that knows what they’re doing, and inspect your leaders often. Do this and I think you’ll be putting more fish in the boat in 2007.
Aaron |
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Posts: 502
Location: Lincoln UK | Fantastic, an unbiased point of view from someone who sells flouro products. No offence but there has to be a vested interest.Flouro may put leader shy fish in the boat, pike and musky are not leader shy. |
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Posts: 2037
Location: lansing, il | hi will, i make the stealth leaders, if you have any concerns or questions feel free to contact me direct! here is my email [email protected] or you can order them right from aaron at muskytackleonline.com |
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Posts: 1243
Location: Musky Tackle Online, MN | chico - 2/27/2007 7:56 AM
Fantastic, an unbiased point of view from someone who sells flouro products. No offence but there has to be a vested interest.Flouro may put leader shy fish in the boat, pike and musky are not leader shy.
Yes, I sell fluoro leaders. I also sell wire leaders. There is no vested interest in my opinions above. Simply sharing my opinion. I'll be usng Stealth Leaders this summer in my boat because I believe in the quality and the results they produce.
Those that know me know that I DO have a vested interest in our fisheries. If I had a belief that a product could potentially have a detrimental effect on our fisheries I could never promote it. That's why you'll never see single hook swallow rigs on my website. They could pay me $100 for every one that I sell, I wouldn't sell them. Our fisheries are the most important thing to me. That's why I don't carry any fluoro other than Stealth's. There are some on the market that I simply do not trust and I won't carry them, no matter how well they would sell.
Fluoro leaders offer more than just the visibility factor. This is what I used to think as well. And Chico, I felt as you do. They aren't leader shy, why would I ever use fluoro? Valid point and I understand where you're coming from completely.
However, fluoro versus wire also can effect the action of a bait. Sometimes wire will have the desired effect, sometimes fluoro will. Another thing to consider is vibration. Look at wire diameter on bucktails. Heavy wire versus thin wire absolutely effects the vibration that is put off into the water. This has an effect on how muskies or pike will react at times. Would a wire leaders versus fluoro not also effect vibration? I don't have an answer to this, but I have to believe it does. To a lesser extent than the wire on the bait itself. But I still have to believe it plays a role.
I've seen fluoro outproduce wire in the past. I've been on the short end. I've also seen it make no difference. When I've witnessed fluoro outproduce wire I don't believe that visibility was a factor. I have to believe it was the action/vibration put off by the bait.
I'll be using a lot of fluoro this year. This comes from someone that makes his own wire leaders which I believe can't be beat in their quality.
Aaron |
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| Has anyone ever used the saltwater mono leader material ?
like the 130# big game leader -
i have used them in saltwater and was wondering if it would work for muskies as well - thanks |
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Posts: 7115
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | Chico,
You might be jumping the gun saying that AWH would only be defending Fluro to sell more leaders might have been a bit of an assumption: http://www.muskytackleonline.com/acatalog/Terminal_Tackle.html
Looks as though he also sells straight wire leaders.
Personally, I use fluro, mono, and titanium leaders. I use them to fit the style of lure, not to keep from scaring fish.
And Bill, if 80lb (what I use) works, I'd think 130lb would work, as well. |
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Posts: 1188
Location: Iowa | Stealth Tackle Flouro Leaders rock...I suck 4 fish on one leader and it has yet to show any signs of wear and tear...2 on topwater, 2 on cowgirls...these things freaking rock...glad I bought 10 of them...I have seen brands like muskie innovation get cut clean in two in the net by a thrashing fish though...
Big Perc |
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Posts: 680
Location: Muskoka Ontario,Canada | I'm also a big fan of John's Stealth Tackle leaders and now I won't use anything else. I got tired of straightening my 400lb test wire leaders all the time, made the switch to Stealth Tackle last season and never looked back. He builds them right. |
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| Musky Snax - 3/1/2007 11:36 AM
I got tired of straightening my 400lb test wire leaders all the time.
What were you using? Bicycle spokes????
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Posts: 680
Location: Muskoka Ontario,Canada | I was using single strand wire leaders from Stringease. They are durable but with big gliders they would get kinked often enough that it got aggravating.
Some folks have the wrong idea as to why we use such heavy duty equipment. It's not because the fish is strong and fights hard, it is due to the stress that repeated casts with big baits puts on it. Gear failure is not an option I want to deal with nor do I wish to have any fish swimming around dying slowly due to a bait breaking off and staying with the fish.
Edited by Musky Snax 3/1/2007 12:53 PM
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Posts: 498
Location: midwest | I too have used stealth brand flourocarbon leaders and have nothing but good things to say about them. I have caught multiple fish on them and my normal boat partner put just about all of his fish on them last year (130 lb model) with absolutely zero problems or failures. As far as I can see I would worry more about snap failure from fatigue from changing baits over time than the flouro leader material as long as it's above 100lb material. I have fished flouro as low as 80 lb with standard musky baits (small delong eel) to allow the bait more movement and action but find myself changing these leaders often, sometimes after each fish. With the larger diameter flouro above 100lb or so it seems like the durability issues go away. |
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Posts: 1270
| Not trying to start anything here but what is so special about the Stealth Floro Leaders? I assume that they use a floro that is available to anyone as I doubt that they make there own floro although I may be wrong. If that is the case why not just tie your own?
I have just never been able to get excited over store bought leaders as I have always made them myself and prefer my home made ones to any one off the shelf. I can buy the best snaps and swivels and when the leader kinks or frays I cut off the snaps and swivels and re-use them. Most all companies use the same wire so what really makes one better than the other? |
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Posts: 2085
| Reelman,
I agree I tie my own - but there is a market for leaders (some people don't want to learn or make the investment for bulk material) - We could all make "Double 10" bucktails as well - there is $6 in material for baits that are being sold for $20 plus.
It cost me about $2.75 a 12" leader to make with top of the line materials (bought in bulk)
Floro rocks! |
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Posts: 2024
| So I've been trying to tie my own leaders and I think I've got it down pretty well. I've been testing the breaking strength and it takes a fair amount of force to break them, but what seems to break is the material touching the O-ring (in my case I'm using O-rings), as if the O-ring cuts through it. The not stays in tact. I haven't had a single one break ABOVE the knot either. How can I fix this problem?
Sorry if this got off subject a little. I will say that fluoro adds major action to a bait. As SLAMR said, I use fluoro when conditions dictate it. Rocks and the possibility of a GIANT = steel (not even going to risk it on BIG fish water). Clearer water and less cover = fluoro. Baits that work best with erratic movements = fluoro. |
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Posts: 1243
Location: Musky Tackle Online, MN | I've made my own fluoro leaders and used them a bit. Same components that are on the Stealth leaders. But when I look at mine compared to Stealth's, I no longer trust mine. I can't tie a knot like John can and I don't trust myself to crimp the right way. If you use crimps, it's extremely important that you do it right or you're taking a big risk. I've decided that it's worth every penny to pay a little extra to have someone make my leaders that I know is doing it the right way.
If you know how to make your own leaders and you can do a quality job of it, by all means, go for it. I do it myself with wire but fluoro is a different story. Your leader is a key link between you and the fish. I only want the best quality on the end of my line, it's not worth the risk. So it's Stealth flouro and my own wire leaders for me.
Aaron |
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Posts: 113
| thanks guys
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Posts: 680
Location: Muskoka Ontario,Canada | The fact that so many guys are giving props to Stealth Tackle leaders should tell you something. Great products by a great guy. I'm proud to give my support whenever I can. |
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Posts: 288
Location: Montreal, Que. Canada | John of Stealth Leaders,
With your 130 lb. leaders would it be safe to put #7 Bucher split rings on all the lures I will be using it with? Do you think it would weaken it much?
David |
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Posts: 28
| Hey David ,why would you look elsewhere for leaders when you can get the best ones available Wed. night? Mike
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Posts: 551
Location: Columbus, Georgia | For smaller baits I add a #5 Bucher split ring.
The #7's are noticeably larger and I have found that they can sometimes negatively effect the action on smaller baits.
Craig
Edited by cjrich 3/3/2007 3:11 PM
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Posts: 613
Location: big cove tannery pa | Stealth all the way,i make my own with 80lb mono 150lb swivels |
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Posts: 408
Location: Omaha, Nebraska | I like the flourocarbon leaders charlier2753 from eBay makes, these things are cheaper then stealth and IMHO are just as good.
thats my 2 cents |
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Posts: 2037
Location: lansing, il | D.H. i make them with a solid ring so that you can go direct with a split ring...shoot me a email for more info on theose!
thanks. |
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