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Posts: 406
Location: Stones throw away...finally!! | I was wondering if anyone has tried the Phantom Red Power Pro. The information that they provide makes sense, but I would love to hear if anyone has tried it (with success). I have always used the Moss Green, but the Red intrigues me. Thanks for the help. |
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Posts: 299
Location: Ontario, California | I haven't but i've been thinking lately..... with the craze of red hooks that are supposed to attract bites because of the color, now red line that it supposed to disappear? Whose gimmic is better. Personally I believe that red is the first color to disappear in the water column or at least wash out.
I guess it really doesn't matter to me because I don't buy into the red hook theory and I still have a couple thousand yards of green Tuf-Line.
Edited by California_Muskie 1/28/2007 10:53 AM
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Location: South Portsmouth, KY | http://muskie.outdoorsfirst.com/board/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=29... |
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Posts: 32930
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Interesting how some ads say one thing a color is supposed to do, and other advertise near the opposite...  |
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Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | Red color is the first to scatter with depth. The only colors that are really left at 25m is purples and blues....(why the ocean is blue) Red is gone the fastest....I personally dont think line color, hook color or any of that hoop la makes a difference. |
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Posts: 2687
Location: Hayward, WI | I think the question is what depth DOES red wash out at? Does it depend on water clairty and sunlight? Sure, red might be the first, but if it doesn't wash out until 10 or 15 feet, a very large percentage of my musky fishing is shallower than that. In that case, red hooks might give the "blood red" appearance everyone talks about, but the line would still be visable.
With all the talk about red hooks, my theory is this: If red does wash out within 10 feet or less, red hooks work because the fish CAN'T see them, not because they trigger them to strike. Red hooks seem pretty popular with walleye anglers using live bait. If you are livebaiting in 15 feet of water, and the fish see nothing but the bait, I would assume more strikes would occur.
I have another question. Why does line color matter for musky fishing unless you are using Flouro leaders? I would think a fish would be more likely to see the large snap connected to a solid wire leader, which is all hooked to my bait, than they are to notice the line a foot in front of it.
Interesting topic. Makes me want to do some "red research."
curleytail
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Posts: 32930
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I've done a ton of work with color underwater. SOOOOO many variables, including the 'when' and 'how' muskies see color, etc...etc... |
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Location: The desert | The color red gives off a 650 nm wavelength. I attached a graph of where wavelegths scatter/become unseen under ocean water. I imagine that the darker the water the less it penetrates.
(underwater spectrum.jpg)
Attachments
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 underwater spectrum.jpg (45KB - 167 downloads)
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Posts: 32930
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Add light penetration angle( time of day, time of year), particulate, wave action, and a bunch of other variables, and red is frequently gone in a couple feet of water. |
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Posts: 2687
Location: Hayward, WI | If you say that in most cases red is gone in a couple feet than I would say the blood red hooks work because the fish don't see them.
As for the case of red line, are fish more likely to see the line or the leader? Not necessarily looking for an answer, just thinking outloud.
curleytail |
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Location: Grand Rapids, MI | The answers you seek are likely in the other thread that was posted above.
Just because the color dissapears doesn't mean it becomes invisible. The "color" red isn't visible anymore, it has now become a gray/green (underwater). It's not like red is some kind of magic color that makes things invisible underwater... though some line compnaies would lead you to believe that. The real reason for the line is so that it's more visible above water. |
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Location: The desert | How many people actually think fish "see" the line? I honestly believe that they dont even care about the line or the leader and cant really see it at all. Think about it.....how many of you have had fish enter a figure 8 or chase up to the boat? Dont you think that the boat and your rod in the water are SO much bigger and more noticeable than a few millimeter in diameter line and a leader?? |
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Posts: 32930
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Pointer thinks somewhat along the same lines as I do. The logic goes like this:
Red is good on hooks. Makes the fish think the prey they see is wounded.
Problem 1) We don't know what the fish actually react to here, especially in the case of a Muskie with their poor olfactory senses.
2) The red on the hooks doesn't actually match the color of any injury
3) The bait doesn't behave like a wounded anything, doesn't swim like one, sound like one, look like one, or in any manner really mimic a wounded or for that matter healthy baitfish.
and so on...
Conversely, red is good beacuse the fish won't see the hooks as readily.
1) This takes the HUGE leap that fish know what a hook is and that they worry about them.
Line is red, this is good...
Why? Why not blue for sunny days and white to gray for cloudy days?
Anthropomorphism. That's how most concepts like these are sold to us. We lend human attributes to Muskies, and expect they will react and reason, think and see, hear and behave as we would if WE were THEM. |
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Location: Oregon | I tend to agree with you Pointer. I think if fish were smart enough to say to themselves "hey there's some fishing line" we wouldn't be able to catch any of them! But, I have fished some crystal clear waters in Idaho for trout where if you weren't using a 4# tippet or lighter you wouldn't touch a thing!
RM |
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Location: The desert | Perhaps the use of a 4lb tippet causes your bait to flow more naturaly through the stream than a larger tippet would. A larger tippet could create more drag in the water and cause the bait to act much differently in the current.
I have talked to guys up in canada when walleye fishing that said if you had anything heavier than 6lb test on you wouldnt catch many walleyes. So me being a dumb kid and having 20lb line on throwing 1/8th ounce jigs really defied all odds by catching over 50 in something like a half hour?
Fishing companies use these gimicks to attract fisherman. And they do this rightfully so because it flat out works. Do I think fish care about color of line, thickness of line etc? Nope, but will I still by "invisible underwater line" and thinner diameter line and blood red hooks? Most likely. Why? Because it appeals to me and makes me think I'm doing all that I can to better my odds. |
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Posts: 1086
| Like the Moss Green Power Pro...the color is gone within the first few outings on the water and you're left with gray colored line...so...with the red Power Pro, I'd guess that the color would be gone soon as well and leave you with a faded pink color? Regardless...it won't stay that color long. I've used the yellow Power Pro and bright yellow monofilament for other species for several years..and still catch fish.....whether the line is clear, green, blue, gray, yellow, red.....I see it more as a marketing gimic to "catch" the angler than the fish... |
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Location: MPLS, MN | Will Schultz - 1/30/2007 7:58 AM
It's not like red is some kind of magic color that makes things invisible underwater...
lol |
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| If they're not afraid of the leader, the hooks, the snap, the lip on a crankbait, or the boat, the line (or what color it is) isn't going to be a deal breaker.
It's a brilliant marketing ploy, developed by guys who are spart enough to realize that people are dumb enough to believe that the color of their fishing line will help them fool something with a brain the size of a gumball...
I might buy the red line, however. I get tired of green fingers in the spring, and besides, it might look cool on a couple of my reels. Personally I think that white color that all line fades to eventually suits the fish just fine. |
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